Spotify Updates iPhone App With Out-of-App Payment Options in U.S.

[Abazigal]

Are you implying that devs can ignore iOS because Android = 71% globally?

If so you are ignoring the realities of running a business. In several developed markets, Apple has a much bigger than 29% of the market.

Services like Spotify, Match etc can't just ignore 57% of the US market for example.

It's been fascinating to witness the duality of Apple-related criticism.

On one hand, people love to point out that Apple has only a very small market share worldwide and is at risk of being snuffed out by Android at any moment. Yet, as you so correctly point out, Apple's smaller market share belies the fact that they have aggregated the best customers in the world, leading to a user base that (often) spends way more than their numbers would otherwise indicate.

This is actually why I am not very concerned with the smaller market share that Apple Music possesses. I suspect that Apple Music usage is more prevalent in developed countries where iPhone usage is higher (and where users are more likely to pay the full $10/month). In contrast, Spotify likely enjoys greater market share in other parts of the world where android phones are more popular (but it also likely means that they make less money on subscriptions).

At the same time, Apple is constantly positioned as being one flop away from irrelevancy constantly (AI being the latest one), yet it has also gotten way too arrogant and powerful and is in need of government regulation to "save" Apple users from Apple itself. In reality, thinking that Apple users are somehow being forced against their will to buy products like Apple Watches and AirPods is nothing more than looking for someone to blame for market failures when the problem is found internally with a bad vision, inadequate corporate culture, and lack of understanding as to what makes Apple unique.

Personally, I am not too worried about this legislation because I don't think it will have a material impact on Apple's bottom line. Apple remains its own toughest competitor as the challenge is often in getting users to upgrade from previous versions of their products to the latest ones. It doesn't mean I agree with rulings like the DMA though, just because I think that Apple can easily absorb the costs from a business standpoint. This remains a violation of Apple's property rights, and if bad actors like Spotify and Epic want their victory, they will have to fight for it.

Let's see how Apple's appeal goes. Because an Apple that retains control of its own ecosystem is an Apple that always wins.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

It's been fascinating to witness the duality of Apple-related criticism.

On one hand, people love to point out that Apple has only a very small market share worldwide and is at risk of being snuffed out by Android at any moment. Yet, as you so correctly point out, Apple's smaller market share belies the fact that they have aggregated the best customers in the world, leading to a user base that (often) spends way more than their numbers would otherwise indicate.

This is actually why I am not very concerned with the smaller market share that Apple Music possesses. I suspect that Apple Music usage is more prevalent in developed countries where iPhone usage is higher (and where users are more likely to pay the full $10/month). In contrast, Spotify likely enjoys greater market share in other parts of the world where android phones are more popular (but it also likely means that they make less money on subscriptions).

At the same time, Apple is constantly positioned as being one flop away from irrelevancy constantly (AI being the latest one), yet it has also gotten way too arrogant and powerful and is in need of government regulation to "save" Apple users from Apple itself. In reality, thinking that Apple users are somehow being forced against their will to buy products like Apple Watches and AirPods is nothing more than looking for someone to blame for market failures when the problem is found internally with a bad vision, inadequate corporate culture, and lack of understanding as to what makes Apple unique.

Personally, I am not too worried about this legislation because I don't think it will have a material impact on Apple's bottom line. Apple remains its own toughest competitor as the challenge is often in getting users to upgrade from previous versions of their products to the latest ones. It doesn't mean I agree with rulings like the DMA though, just because I think that Apple can easily absorb the costs from a business standpoint. This remains a violation of Apple's property rights, and if bad actors like Spotify and Epic want their victory, they will have to fight for it.

Let's see how Apple's appeal goes. Because an Apple that retains control of its own ecosystem is an Apple that always wins.

It is, nearly half of Apple Music's userbase is in the US, that is why their average artist payout looks higher. Apple was for a few years the biggest music streaming service in the US but have since lost that to Spotify.

 

[Abazigal]

It is, nearly half of Apple Music's userbase is in the US, that is why their average artist payout looks higher. Apple was for a few years the biggest music streaming service in the US but have since lost that to Spotify.

I will argue that Apple Music can offer a higher payout because they don't have a free tier dragging the average down. Spotify too can probably improve its finances right away if they wanted by dropping their free, ad-supported tier and going paid-only.

 

[LonerATO]

It is, nearly half of Apple Music's userbase is in the US, that is why their average artist payout looks higher. Apple was for a few years the biggest music streaming service in the US but have since lost that to Spotify.

When was that? Everything I have seen states that Spotify has been, and still remains the dominate service even in the US.

 

[germanbeer007]

Bad analogy. Why? Because maccy d’s reviews are about customers that eat there, aka - you and I as apples customers.

They're reviewing the service and product. Very much similar to Apple's product and service.

Show me the data about their suppliers and then we can compare.

Their suppliers have nothing to do with this. Irrelevant.

It doesn’t really matter

it does.

 

[kiv.atso]

It's just a cost benefit analysis; are you ready to pay 30% more for keeping all your spending in a single store?

For me there’s no point compromising on safety. So yes I am ready to continue supporting Apple so they can invest into their system. Won’t be giving away my money to freeloaders

 

[Stuwil]

For me there’s no point compromising on safety. So yes I am ready to continue supporting Apple so they can invest into their system. Won’t be giving away my money to freeloaders

Ok but how are you compromising on safety when at this time if you want Spotify premium you have to go on the website to subscribe & there are no security issues doing that?

It’s not free loading by Spotify if they have paid the required fee to go on said app store
Spotify have not done anything wrong here

 

[darngooddesign]

Apples current practices ensure you need to keep buying them…

The Internet: Apple has stopped innovating and the yearly updates are minimal
Also the Internet: Apple forces us to upgrade each year

There is zero need to upgrade your phone each year, or even every other year. It’s been this way for a while now even with other brands.

 

[Stuwil]

The Internet: Apple has stopped innovating and the yearly updates are minimal
Also the Internet: Apple forces us to upgrade each year

There is zero need to upgrade your phone each year, or even every other year. It’s been this way for a while now even with other brands.

Your right nobody forces you to upgrade your iPhone every year however the way
The current smartphone business is setup then most people generally upgrade their phones earlier compared with most other products out there
That is why Spotify can now put a link in their app so customers can make a purchase

 

[darngooddesign]

Your right nobody forces you to upgrade your iPhone every year however the way
The current smartphone business is setup then most people generally upgrade their phones earlier compared with most other products out there
That is why Spotify can now put a link in their app so customers can make a purchase

Why do you think that Spotify linking to their site is forcing people to upgrade their phones?

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

I will argue that Apple Music can offer a higher payout because they don't have a free tier dragging the average down. Spotify too can probably improve its finances right away if they wanted by dropping their free, ad-supported tier and going paid-only.

The free tier is a factor aswell, yes.

When was that? Everything I have seen states that Spotify has been, and still remains the dominate service even in the US.

2019/20 ish

EDIT: link - https://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-music-overtakes-spotify-in-u-s-subscribers-11554475924

 

[Stuwil]

Why do you think that Spotify linking to their site is forcing people to upgrade their phones?

That’s not what I said
What I said was the current smartphone business is setup away that people generally upgrade their phones earlier compared with most other products

That is why companies like Spotify are now allowed to include a link to a payment screen

 

[darngooddesign]

That’s not what I said
What I said was the current smartphone business is setup away that people generally upgrade their phones earlier compared with most other products

That is why companies like Spotify are now allowed to include a link to a payment screen

You keep mentioning the Spotify link like it is related to the phone upgrade cycle; “That is why” ties the second half of your comment to the first.

The EU mandating Apple allow for commission-free direct links has nothing to do upgrade frequency.

 

[Stuwil]

You keep mentioning the Spotify link like it is related to the phone upgrade cycle. The EU mandating Apple allow for commission-free direct links has nothing to do upgrade frequency.

is this article not about Spotify including a link so you can purchase out of iOS App Store?

The reason why companies are now allowed to include these links is because smartphones are treated differently to any other electronic business

 

[darngooddesign]

is this article not about Spotify including a link so you can purchase out of iOS App Store?

The reason why companies are now allowed to include these links is because smartphones are treated differently to any other electronic business

You could always subscribe to Spotify outside of the AppStore because just like Netflix, Amazon, etc. thats the only way they accept subscriptions. The ruling has to do with allowing commission-free links within the AppStore. Considering the same EU mandate applies to iPads as well, iPhones aren’t treated differently. The Spotify link has nothing to with upgrade frequency; people have always been able to upgrade their phones annually, but there hasn’t been a need to do so for a while.

 

[Stuwil]

Considering the same EU mandate applies to iPads as well, iPhones aren’t treated differently. The Spotify link has nothing to with upgrade frequency.

You are more than likely to change your mobile more often than you change most products you own
That is why for example you are getting a payment link in an app because of how the smartphone market is setup up or else this link wouldn’t exist

 

[darngooddesign]

You are more than likely to change your mobile more often than you change most products you own

I agree.

That is why for example you are getting a payment link in an app because of how the smartphone market is setup up or else this link wouldn’t exist

I disagree. The payment link is for brand new subscribers, or to a lesser degree want to change your plan, once you have subscribed the link is irrelevant even if you upgrade phones every year. The link is even irrelevant even if you change from iPhone to Android within the same year. Or are using Spotify on five devices.

 

[Stuwil]

I agree.

I disagree. The payment link is for brand new subscribers, or to a lesser degree want to change your plan, once you have subscribed the link is irrelevant even if you upgrade phones every year. The link is even irrelevant even if you change from iPhone to Android within the same year. Or are using Spotify on five devices.

But it will become relevant if the product works out cheaper than using IAP
Because if for example it’s 15.99 using IAP
But using a link in an app it’s 12.99 then you will probably end up unsubscribing the IAP and then going through the link because it will save you money

 

[darngooddesign]

But it will become relevant if the product works out cheaper than using IAP
Because if for example it’s 15.99 using IAP
But using a link in an app it’s 12.99 then you will probably end up unsubscribing the IAP and then going through the link because it will save you money

Up until now, there was no Spotify IAP, payment was done through the website. It doesn’t matter if you buy a new phone every month, an IAP link is only relevant to new paid subscribers or people who are changing their paid plans.

 

[Stuwil]

Currently there is no Spotify IAP, payment is done through the website. It doesn’t matter if you buy a new phone every month, an IAP link is only relevant to new paid subscribers or people who are changing their paid plans.

If I cancel Disney plus that is through the IAP then the link will be there and then it will probably be cheaper because then Apple aren’t getting their 30% on top for the transaction
Just like epic did with Fortnite to show two different prices one with IAP and a cheaper one without IAP

For example YouTube premium is 15.99 if you use IAP
However if you use the website it’s 12.99
So that will end up happening with the payment link.

 

[darngooddesign]

If I cancel Disney plus that is through the IAP then the link will be there and then it will probably be cheaper because then Apple aren’t getting their 30% on top for the transaction
Just like epic did with Fortnite to show two different prices one with IAP and a cheaper one without IAP

For example YouTube premium is 15.99 if you use IAP
However if you use the website it’s 12.99
So that will end up happening with the payment link.

This is irrelevant because there was no Spotify IAP so there is no real reason for an existing Spotify subscriber to cancel their subscription just to redo it though an IAP. Now if you want to move the goalposts and discuss other apps that’s fine.

 

[Stuwil]

This is irrelevant because there was no Spotify IAP. Now if you want to move the goalposts and discuss other apps that’s fine.

It’s only irrelevant because I gave you an example of what’s going to happen in regards to IAP

However what Spotify can do I believe is offer a promotion on premium by using a payment link on iOS that they couldn’t do before so that’s a good thing for customers going forward

 

[darngooddesign]

It’s only irrelevant because I gave you an example of what’s going to happen in regards to IAP

However what Spotify can do I believe is offer a promotion on premium by using a payment link on iOS that they couldn’t do before so that’s a good thing for customers going forward

It’s irrelevant because we are discussing Spotify and Spotify didn’t offer an IAP. Spotify isn’t going to offer any Premium discounts just because there is an IAP if they didnt already offer on their website.

And to be clear, Im fine with the ruling.

 

[Stuwil]

It’s irrelevant because we are discussing Spotify and Spotify didn’t offer an IAP. Spotify isnt going to offer and Premium deals just because there is an IAP if they didnt offer any premium deals through the website.

is that not on the Spotify website the now and ultimately going to be there when you click on the payment link
Where as according to iOS App Store terms Spotify couldn’t offer promotions before so this changes it going forward

 

[darngooddesign]

is that not on the Spotify website the now and ultimately going to be there when you click on the payment link
Where as according to iOS App Store terms Spotify couldn’t offer promotions before so this changes it going forward

Yes, that promotion is for new Premium subscribers, but irrelevant for existing subscribers, and those kinds of promotions were always available on the website because Spotify didn’t have IAPs.