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Going from rectangular to round is not that much different than going from a 3.5" standard display to 4" retina display -- developers don't even have to do anything initially for their apps to work exactly the same way as they did on the rectangular Watch, without any compromises. And the benefits from utilizing the additional space a round watch affords might even be more desirable than a square watch.

I disagree. To change the size of the screen to one of similar proportions was only a matter of scaling the interface, and then apps would just work. Putting a rectangular interface on a round device will look terrible and is entirely un-apple. This would absolutely require developers to create the rectangular interface and the round interface separately. I'm not saying this could never happen, but this lack of fragmentation has been touted as one of the strongest benefits for developers to avoid the android market in favor of Apple. In order to do this they will have to either backpedal on that stance, or take an uncharacteristically uncritical position on bad looking apps.

Regarding accessories, I think the bands are very comparable to phone cases. Apple has always developed cases, but left it to the larger community to really get creative. Now that they've opened up the band development program I see them doing the same thing. Apple is definitely going out of their way to romance the fashion industry, but I do not think this is primarily a fashion device. It is primarily a tech device with necessary fashion elements as it is meant to replace what was formally entirely a fashion device… The watch. I see this new direction as the only way they could realistically try and pitch a tech device that would be worn. If they get vindicated in that space, I think they can just return to doing tech and leave it to the third parties to keep the fashion going
 
I disagree. To change the size of the screen to one of similar proportions was only a matter of scaling the interface, and then apps would just work. Putting a rectangular interface on a round device will look terrible and is entirely un-apple. This would absolutely require developers to create the rectangular interface and the round interface separately. I'm not saying this could never happen, but this lack of fragmentation has been touted as one of the strongest benefits for developers to avoid the android market in favor of Apple. In order to do this they will have to either backpedal on that stance, or take an uncharacteristically uncritical position on bad looking apps.

Well we disagree completely, and I don't find your arguments convincing. Developers had to support two different screens for the iPhone 3.5" and 4" screen, which had black bars on each side of the screen until developers designed a full display screen. I don't recall anybody howling how ugly that looked. So there's your fragmentation right there. It's a matter of personal opinion whether a rectangle inside a circle looks bad. I have friends who would rather watch a stretched 4:3 movie on an HD TV rather than see black bars on the side, or watch a widescreen movie cropped rather than watch it letterboxed. So I stand by display appearance as a matter of taste. Apple will offer full screen options for the two different sizes, and I suspect will make it as easy as possible to create an app that appears one way and automatically adapt it for the different shaped screens, or completely customize it. And we're not talking about the same kind of fragmentation that plagued the Android community, we're talking TWO different shapes. It wouldn't be the first time Apple changed the rules for developers, forcing them to conform to some new standard required by their devices, arbitrarily or not. In the end, fashion will drive Apple's choices from the way I see them proceeding at present. And I would not be surprised if Apple completely changes their position, just like they backpedaled on the iPad mini (which did not ship with sandpaper), or the 5.5" iPhone Plus "Phablet" (yet another example of developers now needing to support two different sized screens (if they choose) -- but at the moment I see them going out of their way to be relevant to the fashion world, changing many things about how they will continue to operate in the future.

As for the watch bands, if you see them no differently than the single design utilitarian iPhone case, or iPad cover, then that's how you see it. Never mind that there are already over 7 unique designs of watch bands, with two different means of attachment for a single product, and every indication more are coming. Opening it up to third party designers, with Apple having final approval over the designs, has no impact on Apple's plans. They are responsible for how the watch is perceived by the fashion world, and they will have the burden of keeping it relevant.
 
Not sure how you can say this considering Apple has sold more  WATCH than all Android Wear models put together. Also you holier than thou attitude is getting old. You aren't breaking ground here.

I think you will find that I posted that long ago, before the Apple Watch was even for sale, and yes, If you looked at the Android wear watches, the Moto 360 did/does seem to have the largest following when it comes to customization due mainly to it's screen design.

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I was just watching the Verge's video review of the LG Watch Urbane. Outside of faux analog watch faces I can't see where the round display is better in any way. In some cases text gets cut off. And what's the point of scrolling through apps in a list format on a circular display? It just looks odd to me. In fact after watching this video I don't see what's so great about Android Wear UI. Doesn't look anything special to me.

http://www.theverge.com/2015/5/8/8572871/lg-watch-urbane-review-android-wear-smartwatch-update

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Rogi........

I know you keep pointing this out, but really it's not because it's a round screen that there is a text cut off issue. It's simply because the software has not been optimally designed for a round screen.

I'm sure you would be the 1st to agree that "If" Apple produced in the future a round screen watch, then they would alter the UI in such a way to work perfectly with such a display.

It is, just hard to basically make one OS that can perfectly deal with both formats. You almost need to start from the ground up, and, at every stage think thru each aspect of what you are going to put on screen and how to make it looks it's best in either format.

I'm sure most people would like, long term for there to be design variations from most brands of smart watch, size, shape etc etc.

We don't really want a future where we all go around like zombies all with the same things.

It's what makes like and people great, all the varieties.
 
I know you keep pointing this out, but really it's not because it's a round screen that there is a text cut off issue. It's simply because the software has not been optimally designed for a round screen.

I thought the reason for the chance out of the bottom was because the display goes all the way to the edges and they needed a spot for the backlight? If so Apple would seemingly eliminate this problem by choosing to add the frame bezel around the display. The design team could have taken the display all the way to the edges, but decided against it because they thought the frame was more elegant with the rounded corners (and they really enjoyed looking at pictures on the watch).
 
Jony Ive is on record as saying that the minute a person wears a product there is the "expectation of choice".

He also said, "When a huge part of the function is lists, a circle doesn’t make any sense." So it seems like he's pretty invested in the choice he's already made. And I really think they want the Watch to be something iconic like the original iPod. That's tricky if they have multiple shapes, even leaving aside any other considerations.
 
I was just watching the Verge's video review of the LG Watch Urbane. Outside of faux analog watch faces I can't see where the round display is better in any way. In some cases text gets cut off. And what's the point of scrolling through apps in a list format on a circular display? It just looks odd to me. In fact after watching this video I don't see what's so great about Android Wear UI. Doesn't look anything special to me.

http://www.theverge.com/2015/5/8/8572871/lg-watch-urbane-review-android-wear-smartwatch-update

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The reason round smartwatches are misunderstood is that nobody knows what "smartwatches" exactly are. Do they HAVE to display text messages and notifications? Do they HAVE to have scroll lists and menus? The paradigm turns 180 degrees if for you they DON'T HAVE to.

When I got my first, rectangular, smartwatch, I thought about advantages of square screen, like you said. Round smartwatches seemed stupid to me because they only looked good when displaying time; the moment you tap the screen to see anything else, you have these ugly cutoff texts and menus.

As I used it more, I realized that I don't want any notifications (other than simple alarms) on my wrist, I want them only on my phone (even my computers have notifications turned off; my phone is the epicenter of all the "poking" coming from the outside world).

As I used it more, I wanted more beautiful watch faces, but nothing was satisfying on the rectangular screen. It just felt odd to me. And after 6 months of struggling with trying to understand why the hell I am wearing a rectangular screen on my wrist, it struck me: I want a round smartwatch, with bright always-on screen! That's it! Just give me an infinitely customizable round watch and I'll be happy. **** notifications! **** texts! **** reading news articles on your wrist! Having to decide each time if I want to deal with some task on my wrist or my phone became old so quick.

And I got a round smartwatch, and couldn't be happier. I completely rethought the paradigm of the smartwatch. I'm going to write apps for it, but every app is going to be like a watchface displaying a very small piece of specific information. This way, I don't have to contantly toggle between the app and the watchface. The primary function of any smartwatch should be... gasp... DISPLAYING TIME!!! And this solves the problem of ugly cutoff texts and scrolling menus.

Each device should do what it's best designed to do. Smartwatch should not try to be a small smartphone. First of all, it's a watch. And rectangular smartwatches in this light look weird because you can't shake off the impression that it's a small iPhone 1 or 3G on your wrist.
 
There might be room for a smartwatch that doesn't display notifications, but I would not have bought that device, and I don't think Apple will be making it.
 
Round wastes so much space. You'd need a UI specifically designed to take advantage of the extra edges.
 
He also said, "When a huge part of the function is lists, a circle doesn’t make any sense." So it seems like he's pretty invested in the choice he's already made. And I really think they want the Watch to be something iconic like the original iPod. That's tricky if they have multiple shapes, even leaving aside any other considerations.

Well first of all that's his rationale for making the 1st gen Apple Watch square, and I completely agree with that logic. It's the easiest way to proceed based on a untried product. There is no reason to believe this applies to every future iteration of the watch Apple intends to produce, anymore than Apple's statement they would never make a "phablet"-sized iPhone because the original iPhone represented the perfect size for one-handed use. Priorities change, and the watch has changed Apple's priorities considerably. And Ive is not beyond making compromises to his designs, as he publicly stated about the much maligned camera bulge on the iPhone 6. Iconic products exist for every manufacturer, but there is also massive pressure to offer variety, especially when it comes to fashion. Moved is perfect example. They came onto the luxury watch scene with their iconic simplistic black faced design, but the watch company has taken the reputation for quality and expanded their offerings in order to appeal to a broader base of customers demanding choice in their fashion items. Apple is now in the same boat if they wish to be part of the fashion world they seem to be pandering so hard to ingratiate themselves into. There's no reason they can't have "iconic" and address the fashion needs of their customers as well. But unlike iPhones, and iPads, people aren't waling around with them displayed on their bodies all day. Watches represent an expression of individuality, which explains why most people I know who wear them have multiple watches, and rarely have I ever seen two people in the same room wearing the exact same one. Apple will have to address this issue eventually if the watch is to become as popular as many predict.

As for being conservative for the initial launch design, It's reported that Ive had to win a fight within Apple to make the Apple Watch a product, because it represents a completely different level of customization than any other Apple product. Apple is in the business of releasing devices that feel "inevitable," yet fashion is all about customization. This also led to many of Apple's recent hires, including Angela Ahrendts of Burberry, Paul Deneve of Yves Saint Laurent, and Patrick Pruniaux from Tag Heuer. So from that report, it appears that Ive was lucky to get the watch on the fast track to begin with, so he was hardly in a position to push for something the software guys would resist, much less two designs. As for what he's said, expect Apple products to continue to take on softer, rounder, more organic forms. Ive is fascinated with corners, and finding ways of getting rid of them thanks to materials such as curved glass. According to Jobs' widow Laurene Powell Jobs, Ive is a fan of Josef Frank, the Austrian-Swedish designer of round furniture who proclaimed: "No hard corners: humans are soft and shapes should be, too." And nothing is softer than a circle.

In the end, we'll have to see whether Ives continues to make pragmatic design compromises, or if his repeated acknowledgment of the customer's desire for customization of products they wear will trump the bean counters objections that the multiple watch configurations complicates their product offerings and reduces their margins.

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Round wastes so much space. You'd need a UI specifically designed to take advantage of the extra edges.

I don't see it that way from looking at this comparison, though I agree that the option to use a custom UI would enhance the design of the Watch and would expect Apple to provide a simple means to design for both.

57800


Does this classic Movado have a lot of wasted space?

MOVADO-MUSEUM.jpg
 
The Apple Watch already has many times as many options as any previous Apple product. The different finishes, sizes and bands that already exist are Apple's concession to customization.

Of course Apple has a bit of a reputation for dismissing certain things (like larger phones) right up until the point that they make one themselves, but I don't think you can point to that as an example for why they will go round. If other round smartwatches sell like gangbusters and Apple Watch sales suffer as a result, then sure. I could see them making that change. Otherwise, it would seem to introduce more problems than it solves.
 
Of course Apple has a bit of a reputation for dismissing certain things (like larger phones) right up until the point that they make one themselves, but I don't think you can point to that as an example for why they will go round. If other round smartwatches sell like gangbusters and Apple Watch sales suffer as a result, then sure. I could see them making that change. Otherwise, it would seem to introduce more problems than it solves.

"I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been." - Wayne Gretzky
 
Oh come on. If anything, using a round watch face is "skating to where the puck has been for the last several centuries."
 
The Apple Watch already has many times as many options as any previous Apple product. The different finishes, sizes and bands that already exist are Apple's concession to customization.

Of course Apple has a bit of a reputation for dismissing certain things (like larger phones) right up until the point that they make one themselves, but I don't think you can point to that as an example for why they will go round. If other round smartwatches sell like gangbusters and Apple Watch sales suffer as a result, then sure. I could see them making that change. Otherwise, it would seem to introduce more problems than it solves.
Well if you can't point to past behavior as an indication Apple may do something in the future, then you can't do it with the options offered for the watch over previous products.

Also, I don't recall that Samsungs monster smartphones were outselling Apple. Apple simply didn't want to cater to a relevant but not insignificant market at first, preferring instead to hone it's product before branching out, much like I expect them to do with the Watch. More likely round smartwatches won't outstrip Apple smartwatches unless they are as good as Apple. Apple will simply lose those customers who don't necessarily need the technology and don't want to look like everybody else. Again not a majority probably, but not insignificant. In order to expand their watch sales in general, they will need to address these groups just like they did with the iPhone 6 Plus. It's the same reason we will likely see a $1-2k gold watch by as early as this Fall, otherwise Apple will lose a not insubstantial demographic who will not wear silver jewelry or accessories, but they won't necessarily buy any other smartwatches ... They just won't buy an Watch.

if you're convinced there is no other way to display information on a smart watch besides square, then there's nothing I can say to suggest otherwise, despite the presence of the numerous round smart watch designs. And now that they've been shown how to do it correctly, their designs will improve along with the software, and given time, it's unlikely Apple won't have to address the crowd who prefers wearing round watches -- actually forget that, it's unlikely Apple won't have to eventually address the crowd that doesn't want to wear the same identical watch as everybody else.
 
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if you're convinced there is no other way to display information on a smart watch besides square, then there's nothing I can say to suggest otherwise, despite the presence of the numerous round watch designs.

On the contrary, I think round is a viable choice, if not necessarily the best one. But Apple has already made their choice, so what we're talking about is adding another completely different form factor just to please people who like round watches. Having two differently shaped screens has implications for usability, the operating system, app development, accessories (since they would need another whole line of bands to fit the round screen) and more. So it seems unlikely that they would do this unless they had some very good reasons.
 
Oh come on. If anything, using a round watch face is "skating to where the puck has been for the last several centuries."

But you said "I could see them making that change. "

So if they see that the puck went that way, they'll go there. Ergo, they're skating after the puck, not making independent, bold moves.
 
I don't accept either is RIGHT

Either can be preferred and look better depending or worse on how you use it.

And again, regardless of the "haters" here, I can guarantee 100% if it WAS Round, them the vast majority here would be saying, of course it should be round, not like those stupid clunky square Casio things.

If anything, the many many pre-render/concepts being round shows you what many expected and hoped for, before we knew it's RL shape, when suddenly many flipped their opinion, and despite many renders being loved, now square was instantly better

I should know better than to address counterfactuals, but if the majority here would have rallied around a round watch design from Apple, they would have been wrong. Ever since Apple took the 6th gen Nano off the market, it should've been obvious (as it was to me) that a square or rectangular case was going to be the design model for any future watch.

I've never understood why so many concept renders assumed the rumored product would be modeled after the Nike Fuelband—which to my mind doesn't count as a "round" watch; they usually portrayed the future watch as a single, continuous band. The display portion of the Fuelband-style renders was still a rectangular section that happened to be convex. I don't remember anyone getting excited by that particular design over and above the hope of a new product category being introduced.

The Casio comparisons are too facile to take seriously. Are Casio's round G-Shock watches less tacky in design than Casio's square Databank watches? No. Databank watches are scoffed at because of their propellerhead functionality, not because they're square.

As far as I'm concerned, displays should be square, period. I don't even like the trend of round avatars, which Apple has unfortunately adopted.
 
I swear the circular Android Wear watches were made for men. There's no way the watch below would fit nicely on my female wrist. This thing is massive and it still doesn't look as nice as traditional higher end watch do.

android-wear-5-1-1-wrist-gestures.jpg


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Does this classic Movado have a lot of wasted space?

Image

Of course not when all its showing is an analog watch face. Of course round makes sense when you're showing the time in that fashion.
 
I swear the circular Android Wear watches were made for men. There's no way the watch below would fit nicely on my female wrist. This thing is massive and it still doesn't look as nice as traditional higher end watch do.

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Of course not when all its showing is an analog watch face. Of course round makes sense when you're showing the time in that fashion.

Holy cow that looks ridiculous.
 
I swear the circular Android Wear watches were made for men. There's no way the watch below would fit nicely on my female wrist. This thing is massive and it still doesn't look as nice as traditional higher end watch do.

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LG watch is definitely a mens watch. No question about that.

lg-g-watch-r-product.jpg
 
Not sure how you can say this considering Apple has sold more  WATCH than all Android Wear models put together. Also you holier than thou attitude is getting old. You aren't breaking ground here.

Please post a link to where Apple has posted sales figures of the Apple Watch. Oh that's right, there aren't any, because Apple hasn't posted one.

I've seen analyst predictions ranging from 1 million (Ibelieve this to be accurate or even a tad low.) And I've seen analysts say over 10 million have been sold with 52 million being sold in 2015 (Gene Munster in particular. But that guy is about as clueless as one can get.)
I've also seen that only around 250,000 units have shipped, because Apple couldn't get more than that built by launch day (thanks to flawed taptic engines and 70% screen failures). And then there is the return rate, that seems to be higher than normal return rates for Apple products (more speculation based on channel inventory.)

All said and done, your statement is a complete and utter load of ...
 
Sure, if you shoot it from very close, every watch looks much bigger relative to the wrist. Perspective distortion, sir.

It's a normal size watch, not big, not small.

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I disagree. :D It's perfect size. People should stop making macro shots.

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All those photos prove is that it looks better in carefully staged model shots than it does in real life photographs. If you watch face extends out above and below your actual wrist then it's too big.
 
All those photos prove is that it looks better in carefully staged model shots than it does in real life photographs. If you watch face extends out above and below your actual wrist then it's too big.

It's all about personal preferences. If you like small watches, like this, it's fine.

Marc-Guyot-vintage-watch-men-style-fashion-grey-suit.jpeg


To me, this looks more like normal sized mens watch:

Navi_Wrist_20100307.jpg
 
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