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SR MBP LED LCD yellowish and gradients issue
- Thread starter issic
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Try this ICC profile! New drivers for calibration tools needed!!!
Hey,
My Spyder2 messes up no matter what software version I try, the colors always end up way too purple! I actually got kinda pissed after a while and did the profile the good old fashioned manual way. Took me half an hour but it's better than any other one I've seen so far.
Try it, it will be far better than the standard yellow one but NOT purple!!!
LED LCD MBP manually calibrated!
Hey,
My Spyder2 messes up no matter what software version I try, the colors always end up way too purple! I actually got kinda pissed after a while and did the profile the good old fashioned manual way. Took me half an hour but it's better than any other one I've seen so far.
Try it, it will be far better than the standard yellow one but NOT purple!!!
LED LCD MBP manually calibrated!
this one doesn't work for me...
Also, I have an interesting experiment for all of you who thing this yellow thing is just a viewing angle problem. Turn the laptop upside down, and look at it straight on. If this yellow is just a viewing angle, wouldnt the bottom of the screen (really the top) look yellow? No, I tried this and the same part of the screen has less contrast and a yellow tint.
Not sure if anyone posted this, but this guy took some nice comparison photos of the old MBP to the new MBP. He says that even though it has a yellow tint, the colors still look better on the LED backlight screen.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kernelpanic/sets/72157600327268977/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kernelpanic/sets/72157600327268977/
Let's do a test
All right I'm the guy who started this post and as I noticed some folks make jokes
about the issue I have a proposal to get somewhere with this discussion, cos pictures are just reproduction putting more distortion to it. And if you think it's a viewing angle problem let's proof it's not.
Let's do a test, if the LCD display is really emitting yellow or not.
Theory: The cathodes and the LED giving the LCD it's backlight emitting white light. As we know white light is made from 3 colors -> RGB in this case by red blue and green pixels. Due to pixel coloration and other stuff the spectrometry is not a full as from a heat source. For more I really recommend this site.
Anyway, the LED and C2D emitting white light, that goes thru LCD crystals and color pixels...making white light - if all pixels are running on full power.
The GUESS of the problem: The LED is emitting spectrum called line spectra, as every non-heat source. There can be a peak in part of spectrum which casting the light more to the yellow - it's physical matter of LEDs as fluorescent light have a cast of green/purple.
What we (I) need:
- Minolta Digital Color Meter III (usually amongs filmmakers and photographers)
- Some kind of reference display (in my case Apple Cinema HD 23")
- MacBookPro with C2D display
- DigitalColorPicker (to check if sending 255 to the graphic card)
- LCD Test to emit 255 white to the whole screen
Finaly:
- 1 PARTNER ON OTHER SIDE OF the WORLD WITH SantaRosa MBP (due to I already returned mine SR and I have just Cinema Display and C2D MBP. So I can give just half of the test - the reference data, so we need somebody with MBP SR to measure the second half, and due there is no SR so far in Czech Republic I can't borrow any)
Test:
I will load ADOBE RGB profile for first test and then factory Color LCD profile for second.
Gamma will be set to 2.2 and COLOR TEMP to 5.6K
I will set 3 different settings to brightness: almost 0, half of the progress bar and full throttle (this can be adjusted fairy accurate if we will do a graph of lumi output measured by spotmeter)
I will launch LCDTest to show a pure white screen to whole display
I will check with DigitalColor Meter (from MacOSX) if it is 255 255 255
Then I will put Color meter to screen as close as possible to be touching the screen in dark room without any other source of light. Write down result.
Repeat test with different ICC profile and brightness settings.
The theory of result:
If MBP will be set to 5.6K it should emit 5.6k color temperature. If the value will be far of let's say couple hundred mired the MBP emitting more yellowish light. As for explanation redish/yellowish (under)=> 5600K industry white point =>(over) blueish
Any comments and tips are welcomed
P.S.: I will perform this test only If I will find counterpart - half results are for nothing (actually will be interesting) and I have other stuff to do.
All right I'm the guy who started this post and as I noticed some folks make jokes
about the issue I have a proposal to get somewhere with this discussion, cos pictures are just reproduction putting more distortion to it. And if you think it's a viewing angle problem let's proof it's not.Let's do a test, if the LCD display is really emitting yellow or not.
Theory: The cathodes and the LED giving the LCD it's backlight emitting white light. As we know white light is made from 3 colors -> RGB in this case by red blue and green pixels. Due to pixel coloration and other stuff the spectrometry is not a full as from a heat source. For more I really recommend this site.
Anyway, the LED and C2D emitting white light, that goes thru LCD crystals and color pixels...making white light - if all pixels are running on full power.
The GUESS of the problem: The LED is emitting spectrum called line spectra, as every non-heat source. There can be a peak in part of spectrum which casting the light more to the yellow - it's physical matter of LEDs as fluorescent light have a cast of green/purple.
What we (I) need:
- Minolta Digital Color Meter III (usually amongs filmmakers and photographers)
- Some kind of reference display (in my case Apple Cinema HD 23")
- MacBookPro with C2D display
- DigitalColorPicker (to check if sending 255 to the graphic card)
- LCD Test to emit 255 white to the whole screen
Finaly:
- 1 PARTNER ON OTHER SIDE OF the WORLD WITH SantaRosa MBP (due to I already returned mine SR and I have just Cinema Display and C2D MBP. So I can give just half of the test - the reference data, so we need somebody with MBP SR to measure the second half, and due there is no SR so far in Czech Republic I can't borrow any)
Test:
I will load ADOBE RGB profile for first test and then factory Color LCD profile for second.
Gamma will be set to 2.2 and COLOR TEMP to 5.6K
I will set 3 different settings to brightness: almost 0, half of the progress bar and full throttle (this can be adjusted fairy accurate if we will do a graph of lumi output measured by spotmeter)
I will launch LCDTest to show a pure white screen to whole display
I will check with DigitalColor Meter (from MacOSX) if it is 255 255 255
Then I will put Color meter to screen as close as possible to be touching the screen in dark room without any other source of light. Write down result.
Repeat test with different ICC profile and brightness settings.
The theory of result:
If MBP will be set to 5.6K it should emit 5.6k color temperature. If the value will be far of let's say couple hundred mired the MBP emitting more yellowish light. As for explanation redish/yellowish (under)=> 5600K industry white point =>(over) blueish
Any comments and tips are welcomed
P.S.: I will perform this test only If I will find counterpart - half results are for nothing (actually will be interesting) and I have other stuff to do.
Calibrating eliminated my almost non-issue yellow tint/bottom 1/3.
It took a couple tries to get it right but it looks great.
I totally love my 15" 2.4 MBP w/7200.
Way worth the wait.
I think Apple probably just included the color profile that worked for the previous LCDs.
It took a couple tries to get it right but it looks great.
I totally love my 15" 2.4 MBP w/7200.
Way worth the wait.
I think Apple probably just included the color profile that worked for the previous LCDs.
I received fedex shipping label. i'm sending my 15" MBP (Glossy) back Apple. They are going to send me another one.
I have an: LG Matte!
This one works even better for me. Found that yesterday night at some photography website!
Download Monitor Profile.icc
This one works even better for me. Found that yesterday night at some photography website!
Download Monitor Profile.icc
This is discusting. Thank you for the comparason. Side by side, you can really see the difference. Ick.
Like on this thread I couldnt stand the yellow tint or the overall yellowish view even straight on. I checked out the high res screen at my local apple store and I just loved it. Its maybe 1 or 2 notches dimmer than the new led but still very bright enough and the color looked better, no overall yellowing at all! I'm in love with the 17" high res so I decided to order one and did and I am sure I will be very pleased with this choice =D
Another problem solved!!
p.s. I did love the colors being vibrant on the led screens but I just couldnt sacrifice the color problems for even backlighting. In my opinion accurate colors are more important than illumination in which I dont see much of a difference. Besides these led screens are just the backlit, not true led RGB just the white led. Your just going to have to wait for the superior, true, full led probably in the end of 08 or 09.
Another problem solved!!
p.s. I did love the colors being vibrant on the led screens but I just couldnt sacrifice the color problems for even backlighting. In my opinion accurate colors are more important than illumination in which I dont see much of a difference. Besides these led screens are just the backlit, not true led RGB just the white led. Your just going to have to wait for the superior, true, full led probably in the end of 08 or 09.
Not to detract from the 17" HD display (which is quite nice, indeed), but there is absolutely nothing wrong with the 15.4" LED-backlit display that can't be solved via calibration. Apple simply blew it with the default profile.
The bottom 1/3 "yellow tint" problem is another story. Since this seems most common on Samsung panels, I'm guessing it's some sort of manufacturing defect.
In summary, there are three "yellow" problems associated with the new 15.4" MBP:
- Yellow/green cast over entire screen from normal viewing angles: Completely fixable via calibration. My MBP display now has crisp, bright whites and color reproduction that rivals my 23" ACD. It's also as bright as my 23" ACD, which is pretty amazing for a laptop!
- Yellow/green cast over entire screen from extreme viewing angles: All TN panels have color shifts when you don't view them straight on. It's a well-known limitation of the technology. The LED-backlit variety just happens to shift towards yellow. However, the amount of yellow (and especially green) under these conditions is greatly reduced after calibration.
- Yellow tint in lower 1/3 of the display: This is a real problem. Probably not fixable via calibration or any other software solution.
i'm not sure if its due to the extreme brightness that shows the flaws in the same lcd panels because all apple did was change the backlighting to the "led" and kept the panels in the same specs as the previous gen.
Even my brothers 3 year old dell does not have this yellow tint on the bottom issue and all out has an even lighting and even color and still pleasing to the eyes. The mac geniuses all checked the mbp led that they use in their counter as well as all the ones out on display, a total of 7 and the 5 I went through from june 6th to july 2nd. I know 12 is not the same as comparing to millions but having checked every single one of them they all get yellow towards the 1/3 screen just not as noticeable in the bright light. I own a 23" cinema display and a 20" and I have not seen this shifting of colors, yes there are slight very slight shifting to colder tones but its no way near as visible than on these new led mbp's (especially in the dark or dimmer places).
I say hey if you love it good for you but for me its not acceptable. I've owned pretty much every single mbp except the 2.33ghz last gen before these new led models but I saw them next to each other and the new led models are brighter I find the last gen with the ccfl screens color very even and pleasing to the eyes.
I do hate it because I really really loved the led mbp's but when your laying down on your bed reading the news or other forums and you start shifting your eyes left to right, and eventually going down the page you notice this color shift and its very distracting behind the text of the words and it just strains your eyes, you just had enough of it. Also I tried to the test only at the top of the page by scrolling down but that felt ridiculous.
Also the new mbp 17" with the hd screen does have a much brighter screen as to the 1650x1050 displays, maybe a totally different panel with backlighting system. And its very pleasing to the eyes. I just feel like the 15" mbp led's are more of a rev. a (beta) machine to see how people react to the screen. And I'm sure like other previous models they will get the problems resolved in the next few months and I have a very very on the money feeling that when the 17" led's come out, it will not exhibit these yellow tint. The 15" mbp always has the first set of problems before they are all fixed. Just check out the history of most of the 15" powerbooks to the macbook pro's they all have some sort of problems as to the 17". Not many people even complain about or its very hard to find many complaints about any 17" macbook pro even googling around, maybe just minor little glitches or isolated issues.
sorry this was just my 20000000 cents. =)
ps. if you love your led then good for you nothing is wrong with that I guess its more of that beauty is in the eye of the beholder deal...
Even my brothers 3 year old dell does not have this yellow tint on the bottom issue and all out has an even lighting and even color and still pleasing to the eyes. The mac geniuses all checked the mbp led that they use in their counter as well as all the ones out on display, a total of 7 and the 5 I went through from june 6th to july 2nd. I know 12 is not the same as comparing to millions but having checked every single one of them they all get yellow towards the 1/3 screen just not as noticeable in the bright light. I own a 23" cinema display and a 20" and I have not seen this shifting of colors, yes there are slight very slight shifting to colder tones but its no way near as visible than on these new led mbp's (especially in the dark or dimmer places).
I say hey if you love it good for you but for me its not acceptable. I've owned pretty much every single mbp except the 2.33ghz last gen before these new led models but I saw them next to each other and the new led models are brighter I find the last gen with the ccfl screens color very even and pleasing to the eyes.
I do hate it because I really really loved the led mbp's but when your laying down on your bed reading the news or other forums and you start shifting your eyes left to right, and eventually going down the page you notice this color shift and its very distracting behind the text of the words and it just strains your eyes, you just had enough of it. Also I tried to the test only at the top of the page by scrolling down but that felt ridiculous.
Also the new mbp 17" with the hd screen does have a much brighter screen as to the 1650x1050 displays, maybe a totally different panel with backlighting system. And its very pleasing to the eyes. I just feel like the 15" mbp led's are more of a rev. a (beta) machine to see how people react to the screen. And I'm sure like other previous models they will get the problems resolved in the next few months and I have a very very on the money feeling that when the 17" led's come out, it will not exhibit these yellow tint. The 15" mbp always has the first set of problems before they are all fixed. Just check out the history of most of the 15" powerbooks to the macbook pro's they all have some sort of problems as to the 17". Not many people even complain about or its very hard to find many complaints about any 17" macbook pro even googling around, maybe just minor little glitches or isolated issues.
sorry this was just my 20000000 cents. =)
ps. if you love your led then good for you nothing is wrong with that I guess its more of that beauty is in the eye of the beholder deal...
I understand that's your experience, but trust me when I tell you not every LED-backlit MBP has this problem. Reports here seem to indicate it's primarily an issue with the Samsung panels. Most of us with the LG have great displays. Mine is bright, even, and has excellent color top to bottom.
On the other hand, I will concede that off-axis viewing is the pits. This is a well-known limitation of TN+Film LCD technology. The backlight has nothing to do with it.
Keep in mind that the pictures show them both with the default color profile, and the default for the SR MBP isn't very good.
Yep. That's how mine looks with the default ColorSync profile. The color temperature is too warm (yellow) and there is a noticeable green push.
However, this is not a hardware problem with the display. My MBP screen looks nothing like those in the photos after calibration. Seriously. Apple screwed up!
By the way, these pictures actually illustrate two problems. The old MBP is too cool/blue while the new MBP is too warm/yellow. If both were calibrated to the same color temperature, the difference would be minimal at best.
Curiousity
Hello everyone
Im new to these forums and overall new to MAC. Sorry to stumble in here, but I've been eyeing the macbook pro over the last month or so, but after viewing this thread, I'd have to ask everyone who has just ordered the upgraded macbook how severe this yellow-tint issue really is? I'd appreciate any assistance, suggestions and such as I'm in a bit of a dilemma- I really need a notebook and obviously don't want to deal with a rather difficult situation.
If l were to receive a yellow-tinted notebook, would there be a problem in mailing it back to apple- or sending it to a retail store for an exchange?
Also customizable notebooks have a no-return policy?
Thank you everyone
take cares.
Hello everyone
Im new to these forums and overall new to MAC. Sorry to stumble in here, but I've been eyeing the macbook pro over the last month or so, but after viewing this thread, I'd have to ask everyone who has just ordered the upgraded macbook how severe this yellow-tint issue really is? I'd appreciate any assistance, suggestions and such as I'm in a bit of a dilemma- I really need a notebook and obviously don't want to deal with a rather difficult situation.
If l were to receive a yellow-tinted notebook, would there be a problem in mailing it back to apple- or sending it to a retail store for an exchange?
Also customizable notebooks have a no-return policy?
Thank you everyone
take cares.
I figured this was the case. Do you have any articles that explain this better?
Did you do the advanced color calibration? I tried doing this, but its a bit confusing. It says to make the apple logo match the background. What background are they talking about? The white background of calibration window or the black box with the apple logo in it? If I try to match the white background, everything white changes including the apple logo, which its hard to match then.
Any help/suggestions/tutorials appreciated
Hello everyone
Im new to these forums and overall new to MAC. Sorry to stumble in here, but I've been eyeing the macbook pro over the last month or so, but after viewing this thread, I'd have to ask everyone who has just ordered the upgraded macbook how severe this yellow-tint issue really is? I'd appreciate any assistance, suggestions and such as I'm in a bit of a dilemma- I really need a notebook and obviously don't want to deal with a rather difficult situation.
If l were to receive a yellow-tinted notebook, would there be a problem in mailing it back to apple- or sending it to a retail store for an exchange?
Also customizable notebooks have a no-return policy?
Thank you everyone
take cares.
I got a perfect Macbook Pro. The only customization I had was to get the glossy screen. When I spoke to Apple via phone before I ordered, I asked if this would make my MBP ineligible for return if I didn't like it. The rep said technically yes, but that exceptions could be made. And that was just if I changed my mind within the 14 day return period.
It seems to me, in reading all these posts, that most people who have had problems have rec'd new computers when taking theirs back to an Apple store.
But I'll let someone with experience answer that definitively. Good luck when you buy yours! I wouldn't ever part with mine!
Here's a Wikipedia entry that covers it briefly.
I've never had much luck with Apple's calibration tool. I finally broke down and bought a Eye-One Display 2. My ColorSync profile is here.
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Hello everyone
Im new to these forums and overall new to MAC. Sorry to stumble in here, but I've been eyeing the macbook pro over the last month or so, but after viewing this thread, I'd have to ask everyone who has just ordered the upgraded macbook how severe this yellow-tint issue really is? I'd appreciate any assistance, suggestions and such as I'm in a bit of a dilemma- I really need a notebook and obviously don't want to deal with a rather difficult situation.
If l were to receive a yellow-tinted notebook, would there be a problem in mailing it back to apple- or sending it to a retail store for an exchange?
Also customizable notebooks have a no-return policy?
Thank you everyone
take cares.
I bought a MBP through the Apple Online store, and it had the tint, so I exchanged it an Apple Retail store.
It gets tricky, though, with customized computers. I'll let someone else answer that.