Are the Cinema Displays 8-bit or 10-bit even? I didn't see this on Apple's Cinema Displays specifications.
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SR MBP LED LCD yellowish and gradients issue
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Really? Where did you get that info?
I am looking at a 2.2GHz MacBook Pro that a co-worker got their college-bound son. He wanted me to set it up. I have been using it for an hour. I'm in an office with regular lamps; no fluorescent lighting. I don't see any yellow tint or cast straight on. From the side, maybe it's a yellow cast...I cannot tell for sure. Edit: I think I see it but is it strong? No. To me it just looks like a typical laptop LCD when you're looking from the side. I should note that the display has a warmer presentation.
I cannot discern any flicker when reducing the display brightness.
The right ambient sensor is very sensitive and automatically dims the screen when you move your hand near it!
I have not tested for the supposed audio noise coming from the headphone jack as I don't have a pair of headphones to try this out on.
I don't think the display is bad...I am not use to the 15.4" size having used a 17" PowerBook all these years. I suppose I could adjust!
The thing sure is bright!
All LCD displays right now are 8-bit (except the ones used in the laptops
which are 6-bit of course). There is no "10 or 12 bit screens" yet.
Even top of the line LCDs like Eizo CG221 offer 12-bit hardware color
calibration, but the display is 8-bit. I'm testing a broadcast HD $20.000
LCD display at work right now and it's still 8-bit. What's coming up at
the end of 2007 will change it, there are several new 10-bit models coming.
We just have to wait. There is a strange situation now, the companies stopped
selling CRT monitors and can't deliver anything which would replace it.
Try to order a broadcast monitor from Sony for example...
As far as the yellow tint, I think it's a result of cheap LED technology,
obviously LEDs are only on the edges of the screen and some variations
of brightness may occur. Or the bottom edge is built different way...
Higher range of LED displays will have them proportionally positioned
through the entire space of the screen, but they are not as thin as the laptop
displays... They are also often RGB LEDs which are far superior to
white LEDs...
8-bit. Apple is very careful not to advertise too many details
about stuff like that... They just introduced "Color" - a "professional color
grading application" and their monitors are a joke...
Apple won't even tell you the gamut of their Cinema displays, I think
they don't know
Oh, OK. I'm sure I remember last time the 6-bit point came up people claimed that 10 and 12 bit screens existed, but I don't really care, and it won't affect me either way, so whatever.
Are you sure that there are only LEDs around the screen? How do they then get the light to the middle at the same intensity as the outside? I would have thought they would just use a few thousand or more led diodes printed straight onto a PCB behind the LCD sheet. Shouldn't be too expensive to make, and should not be at all thick or heavy...
Does anyone know if Apple uses 3 colour LEDs, or just lots of white ones? If the display seems to be more "warm" than normal, wouldn't that suggest 3 colours, because assuming they are the same, every white LED I've ever seen has been quite bluish. I suppose I shouldn't base predictions on looking at crappy LEDs used in torches and outdoor solar lights, but whatever.
So how is light moved from the outside of the screen to the centre?
I don't know, it drives me nuts. Every time I open up an app with a lot of white space near the bottom of the screen (Mail, Safari and google.com, this site, etc.), it looks like someone pissed on my screen.
I hope the replacement is better. It really is inexcusable of Apple to sell products at such a premium price with all these quality issues.
The quality issues with some of Apple's premium price models has been consistent for so many years now that your quote is pretty much cliche.
Just focusing on screen issues, remember the PowerBook screens with the white spot in the middle? Or the "hi-res" PowerBook screens that had the horizontal banding issue? Or the G4 17" screens that are dying now? Or the first MacBook Pro screens that had the uneven lighting and hissed? Or the updated MacBook Pro screens that were grainy?
I think atleast earlier the 20" cinema display was the same panel as dell 2007wfp or whatever the name is, and that one is an s-ips (atleast that is what everyone gets) and that one is definitly 24 bit (and quite good.)
Nec got a-s-ips displays which doesn't cost more than the cinema displays thought. Viewsonic got a very cheap mva panel aswell.
I don't know if a non-apple display is ok for you thought? The Dell one has an ugly foot imho, but except that it looks nice, and it got plenty of inputs aswell. Just looked at the Nec aswell, the Apple one still looks better, if case is all you look at
The white LEDs used in cheap laptop TFT screens actually blue ones in yellow phosphor packages to emit ~6500K (daylight) color temperature. So if-as someone described it-there's one row of LEDs at the screen top and one at the bottom, maybe the bottom LED row emit more yellowish color than the top one. To exclude some viewing angle factors, maybe someone who has an x.rite Eye One or Monaco Optix calibrator could measure the color temperature of the bottom and the top 1/3 of the screen, I think both calibrators have a measuring function...
Btw, it's a sad trend that all laptop manufacturers use these cheap ass TN-paneled 262K color TFT screens. The last really good notebook screen was the Thinkpad T60 Flexview TFT, IPS panel, fantastic viewing angle and good backlighting (although not so bright that the current ones). Unfortunately Lenovo has stopped to use it, sells the same TN panels like everyone else.
Btw, it's a sad trend that all laptop manufacturers use these cheap ass TN-paneled 262K color TFT screens. The last really good notebook screen was the Thinkpad T60 Flexview TFT, IPS panel, fantastic viewing angle and good backlighting (although not so bright that the current ones). Unfortunately Lenovo has stopped to use it, sells the same TN panels like everyone else.
Yes, measuring would be a great idea - that would clearly show the difference. It would also be good to measure brightness between different areas since that too can affect how colors are perceived.It may be that part of the problem is that the displays are darker at the bottom and that whites therefore get a warmer, yellow/brown cast when displayed there. One of the first MBPs I had displayed a brownish upper right corner which I attributed to uneven illumination - but, unlike the present problem, it was more brown than yellow.
Yes, the flexview screen was the best but, as you said, not as bright. The masses like brightness more than accuracy and viewing angles. Sad that they discontinued it - as I recall, it was an option rather than standard, so perhaps it just wasn't selling well? I'd love to see better viewing angles on all laptops - that was the only one that had truly great viewing angles and now it's gone.
So I solved mine by buying ACD 23" 1980x1200 and keeping my "old" laptop. Sending information about this issue thru local Apple Shop to higher places, cos i'm sure what I see. And it's some kind of manufacturing defect. They can be two possible explanations why somebody sees it and somebody don't. Either there is two differently assembled shipments one with "different" bottom LED's or the people r colorblind or just can't notice due no training (i bet my underwear that those people picture on television looks like **** and they r not bothered anyway - which is normal, dont understand me wrongly, im the freak here and i'm happy about it: )
So good luck to new owners of MBP SR. I will go for the next gen - christmas present...
)So good luck to new owners of MBP SR. I will go for the next gen - christmas present...
So does every single new macbook pro exhibit the yellow problem? Or is it just an unusually common factory defect? I'm considering getting one for school next year and if it's a problem with the manufacturing and all new macbook pros have the yellow tint I'm gonna wait it out.
i was planning on getting it in the next couple of months but now i think ill wait till leopard (hoping new rev comes out). from avg how long does it take for a new revision to come out. and when will we know or find out?
I'm considering an SR purchase, and after the horizontal screen line fiasco in my last generation Powerbook G4, I'm conscious of problems that crop up in these forums. I consider myself a perfectionist when it comes to product standards I have for Apple. Case in point, the horizontal lines in my PB annoyed the hell out of me and I fought tooth and nail for months to get a proper replacement.
I went to my local Apple store yesterday to test the validity of the yellow cast on the lower portion. Disclaimer: I'm not a professional photographer and I don't own a device to color calibrate my screen. I am very anal about my screens, but only to the limits of my naked eye. I looked at 5 of the new SR MBP's, three matte and 2 glossy. I scrutinized each one from various angles, and tried every single color profile installed on every machine. I also tried various background colors, including white, to test edge to edge color.
Conclusion: I believe I can see what you guys are talking about, but only just barely. To me, it is so slight, that if I hadn't read about it here first, I would never have noticed. So slight, in fact, that I have no qualms about getting one myself.
If it bugs you, it bugs you, everyone has their own standards. However, to people reading this thread also considering SR, carefully consider your own screen standards and usage requirements before jumping to conclusions about the severity of this problem. Go check out some MBP screens for yourself and tell us what you think. I believe that unless you're someone with an unusually sensitive or discerning eye, you'll think these screens are fine.
I went to my local Apple store yesterday to test the validity of the yellow cast on the lower portion. Disclaimer: I'm not a professional photographer and I don't own a device to color calibrate my screen. I am very anal about my screens, but only to the limits of my naked eye. I looked at 5 of the new SR MBP's, three matte and 2 glossy. I scrutinized each one from various angles, and tried every single color profile installed on every machine. I also tried various background colors, including white, to test edge to edge color.
Conclusion: I believe I can see what you guys are talking about, but only just barely. To me, it is so slight, that if I hadn't read about it here first, I would never have noticed. So slight, in fact, that I have no qualms about getting one myself.
If it bugs you, it bugs you, everyone has their own standards. However, to people reading this thread also considering SR, carefully consider your own screen standards and usage requirements before jumping to conclusions about the severity of this problem. Go check out some MBP screens for yourself and tell us what you think. I believe that unless you're someone with an unusually sensitive or discerning eye, you'll think these screens are fine.
It didn't bug me until I stared at the screen for a while. Every time i'd look in different areas of the screen, sometimes it would be white, sometimes a little yellow. My eyes can handle uneven lighting much better than color changes like that. Initially I saw no issues with the screens when at the apple store, either. But after I got home and used it for a couple of days it drove me nuts. Now when I go to the apple store I can spot the yellowing instantly.
See how you like it after a few days. It's very likely most peoples eyes won't be as sensitive to the color shift. And when I say my eyes can't handle the color shift, it's probably not my eyes and all in my brain. My brain doesn't seem to like those color changes. But an uneven backlight doesn't bug me nearly as much. I'm sure uneven backlighting drives other people batty. So the people who say they don't see it, I'm guessing they just aren't as sensitive to it. And that's great, they've found a great notebook for them! But for others, if that's what your brain is sensitive to, these new LED screens as they are coming today in these current 15" Macbook Pro's may not be the best choice.
Enjoy.
I can see the lines on the gradient test of my old PB. In fact, the gradient LCD test looks nearly identical (same imperfections) between the old PB and brand new MBP (slightly more banding on the red portion of MBP). That said, I really like my new MPB (but I am not a graphics artist although I used to work in the field).
Yes. If your work does not require color-accurate monitor, then I'm sure you won't notice or if you do, you don't care.
By definition, if a monitor is not colour accurate, then the colours will look different. The difference will however not be dramatic, it's just that the colors either *are* accurate (thus enabling you to trust to what you see) or they are *not* accurate (thus forcing your workflow into a trial-and-error which is just stupid waste of time).
Ideally, you should do your work and get 100% matching print once you're ready. In the real world, monitors are not perfect but some of us need to have such a monitor that operates as close to ideal as possible. That's a whole purpose of SWOP certification for example.
My color profile was a little off when it came. Someone has posted to this forum a new color profile that made the colors look better (for me).
The LED screen is awesome... I would not worry.
I have a 2.2 glossy and I cannot find the yellow tint on my display. That's not to say there aren't a few things that bother me.
I noticed some color banding while activating Front Row. No big deal at all, I really couldn't careless about that at this point.
I noticed there is an allusion of vertical banding whenever I get about 16" from the screen and shake my head (like saying "no".) Not that bothersome as I'm usually not shaking my head at the computer, but I do notice it every so often.
Other than that the display is amazing. I love the glossy screen and am glad I chose it. i can actually use the computer outside and glare is not an issue. The brightness is enough to burn out a cornea.
I noticed some color banding while activating Front Row. No big deal at all, I really couldn't careless about that at this point.
I noticed there is an allusion of vertical banding whenever I get about 16" from the screen and shake my head (like saying "no".) Not that bothersome as I'm usually not shaking my head at the computer, but I do notice it every so often.
Other than that the display is amazing. I love the glossy screen and am glad I chose it. i can actually use the computer outside and glare is not an issue. The brightness is enough to burn out a cornea.
If you need a color management system, get an high-end external monitor.
If not, try the gretag color profiler, that can help.
I won't count on my macbookpro screen for accurate color profiling, ill use my external lacie 321 for fine-art photography and design work.
Gretag
http://usa.gretagmacbethstore.com/
If not, try the gretag color profiler, that can help.
I won't count on my macbookpro screen for accurate color profiling, ill use my external lacie 321 for fine-art photography and design work.
Gretag
http://usa.gretagmacbethstore.com/
So some correction and debrief to this problem:
1) it's individual color perception matter, somebody is sensitive someone not, as somebody said so here, that's very true. Contraindicate to this, I strongly believe, it has to do something with technological *fill yourself* of these LED displays. They need to be cheap, its brand new, so the technology can have bugs and has it! the yellow tint. If it is made by viewing angle sensitivity or LED differences I don't know, but I see it and it's annoying.
2) "go and look at Apple Store" - I believe you CAN'T see it properly in Apple Store due to amount of lighting overall from all directions they have there! If you know what you looking for you will see it, but don't forget you in shop, it's not so relaxing and calm as in home so there is lots of distraction as other costumers, feeling of rush you have in shops, so you need to do it quickly. It took me 20 minutes to show genius technician where to look at. I believe if you will sit in the corner at the shop and start doing ordinary work you will notice it. For sure when you will be in your room or bed in darker environment you will notice.
3) "Gradient" - my apologies, I figure it out that the Gradient test is heavily dependent on Color Calibration, check it yourself....no bending if you use standard preinstalled icc - factory settings - that shows that the monitor is calibrated for that. But the default calibration usually looks like sh**! So after you will calibrated it will show some lines. So I think default Calibration is made to cover fact it's just 6bit LCD
4) I showed side by side MBP C2D and MBP SR to my friends. 5 of 5 said they like more the crisper and not yellowed MBP C2D. Even a little 5 years old kid was pointing on commercial about Nemo saying that picture on MBP C2D is real Nemo and the other (MBP SR) is fake - i know doesn't proof enything
5) I'm just posting my opinion and I recommend everybody to go and see it yourself. I'm just showing you what can be wrong, it's not bothering you? Fine! Lucky you go and buy it other than that is perfect machine and even better if you going from iBook, Powerbook or other older machine.
If you have generation 2.2 of Macbook pro...?! Here is over advantages against ver 2.2:
+ LED LCD Power consumption gives you up to 5 hours of work in field compare to 3.5h?!
+ Santa Rosa chipset
+ small increase in speed from 2.33 to 2.4
+ ability to put 4Gb of memory
+ slightly larger HDD
+ as I noticed better battery management (showing charging, charged etc..)
+ disputable better graphic card (it's 5% of increase performance worth it?)
+ display PROBABLY will not be aging
+ slightly cooler running: 1-5C cooler?!
minus:
- LED Color reproduction is just not for me
- Viewing Angle
What I'm expecting from overpriced brand-icon priced laptop, used mostly in film/video/graphics/music, that will do what is worth it 2500$.
So and if you interested why i'm so picky and what kind of background i have to say such results you welcomed to see me and something about me.
1) it's individual color perception matter, somebody is sensitive someone not, as somebody said so here, that's very true. Contraindicate to this, I strongly believe, it has to do something with technological *fill yourself* of these LED displays. They need to be cheap, its brand new, so the technology can have bugs and has it! the yellow tint. If it is made by viewing angle sensitivity or LED differences I don't know, but I see it and it's annoying.
2) "go and look at Apple Store" - I believe you CAN'T see it properly in Apple Store due to amount of lighting overall from all directions they have there! If you know what you looking for you will see it, but don't forget you in shop, it's not so relaxing and calm as in home so there is lots of distraction as other costumers, feeling of rush you have in shops, so you need to do it quickly. It took me 20 minutes to show genius technician where to look at. I believe if you will sit in the corner at the shop and start doing ordinary work you will notice it. For sure when you will be in your room or bed in darker environment you will notice.
3) "Gradient" - my apologies, I figure it out that the Gradient test is heavily dependent on Color Calibration, check it yourself....no bending if you use standard preinstalled icc - factory settings - that shows that the monitor is calibrated for that. But the default calibration usually looks like sh**! So after you will calibrated it will show some lines. So I think default Calibration is made to cover fact it's just 6bit LCD
4) I showed side by side MBP C2D and MBP SR to my friends. 5 of 5 said they like more the crisper and not yellowed MBP C2D. Even a little 5 years old kid was pointing on commercial about Nemo saying that picture on MBP C2D is real Nemo and the other (MBP SR) is fake
- i know doesn't proof enything5) I'm just posting my opinion and I recommend everybody to go and see it yourself. I'm just showing you what can be wrong, it's not bothering you? Fine! Lucky you go and buy it other than that is perfect machine and even better if you going from iBook, Powerbook or other older machine.
If you have generation 2.2 of Macbook pro...?! Here is over advantages against ver 2.2:
+ LED LCD Power consumption gives you up to 5 hours of work in field compare to 3.5h?!
+ Santa Rosa chipset
+ small increase in speed from 2.33 to 2.4
+ ability to put 4Gb of memory
+ slightly larger HDD
+ as I noticed better battery management (showing charging, charged etc..)
+ disputable better graphic card (it's 5% of increase performance worth it?)
+ display PROBABLY will not be aging
+ slightly cooler running: 1-5C cooler?!
minus:
- LED Color reproduction is just not for me
- Viewing Angle
What I'm expecting from overpriced brand-icon priced laptop, used mostly in film/video/graphics/music, that will do what is worth it 2500$.
So and if you interested why i'm so picky and what kind of background i have to say such results you welcomed to see me and something about me.