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Entertainment Weekly has published a list of some of the plot points that Abrams has copied directly from the original Star Wars:


1. There’s a droid carrying valuable information who finds himself on a desolate desert planet.

2. There’s a Force-sensitive, masked, and darkly clothed antagonist who arrives on the scene shortly after the information is handed off, looking for the droid.

3. There’s a desert settlement that is wiped out by stormtroopers.

4. There’s a hero who’s tortured by the bad guys to retrieve the information.

5. There’s a lonely, Force-strong desert dweller who dreams of more.

6. There’s a worldly old warrior who has to explain the Force to the next generation.

7. There’s a cruel military officer who holds a comparable level of authority to his Force-sensitive, masked, and darkly clothed colleague.

8. There’s a mostly unseen supreme evil that’s pulling the strings from the shadows.

9. There’s a criminal element that’s owed a debt by Han Solo and attempts to kill him after he screws up their arrangement.

10. There’s a cantina filled with various alien creatures.

11. There’s a moment when one of the heroes abandons the fight as a self-preservation measure, but he eventually returns.

12. There’s a massive spherical weapon that’s used to destroy a planet.

13. There’s a base belonging to the rebel forces on a forest-covered world.

14. There’s a surrogate father figure who is cut down by someone previously close to him, who has turned to the dark side.

15. The hero watches helplessly from afar as the surrogate father figure is slayed.

16. There’s a coordinated aerial attack on the massive spherical weapon that’s monitored from a control room by Leia.

17. There’s a trench that X-wings flew through in order to fire on a vulnerability in the weapon and destroy it.

18. There’s a massive explosion that gives the rebels a major victory but likely allows the Force-sensitive, masked, and darkly clothed antagonist to survive to fight another day.

Don't be surprised when Episode VIII opens on an ice planet. ;)
 
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If JJ made it too different people would complain.
If he makes it too similar people complain.
Let's just be thankful it's not a Marvels movie. They would just do a reboot every 5 years with different actors!
 
Without going into a lot of detail, TFA blatantly pushes particular political propaganda, such as:

1. feminism (rey in particular, along with the fembot stormtrooper, as well as leia)

2. multi-culturalism (a brunette rey, black fin, and a distinctly arab and/or mediterranean vader and poe, along with the bizarre alien creatures throughout)

3. pro UN propaganda (ie republic/rebel alliance)

4. anti-nationalist agenda (anti national socialism, aka germany third reich)

TFA does have a thematic continuity with the original trilogy in it's odes and bows to astro-theology (ie rey/ray wears white, kylo wears black), but is now more of a backdrop rather than thematic foundation and moral arc of the star wars universe.

Also, and this is just me personally, but it finally took me a while to figure out that the constant references to slavery, bartering, and the almost constant backdrop of the desert is a not so subtle portrayal of the incredibly environmentally harsh and largely amoral culture of the Arab world. So,

5. a rather subtle anti-Arab thematic is part of the backdrop as well.

I think that's a very cynical view of the film, and disagree that it's propaganda. Saying that it is pushing feminism and multi-culturalism isn't propaganda, it's equality. Yes, it has a distinct republic-freedon vs Nazi-socialism, but that's the whole of Star Wars, all the way back to 1977. And since the Empire in the originals is basically all British, you could say it's a dig from America to the English referring back to their independence.

Whether the desert reference is aimed at Arabs or not, I think not. Or at least, not intentionally. Lucas set the original on a desert planet to increase the feeling that our hero was so very far away from our own notion of 'home', that it was bland and how he longed for a change from such a bland world. It removed the audience from the comfort of our surroundings, and made us want to come home as well and therefore connect with the hero-to-be. Since TFA is simply Ep IV in thin disguise, it's not a modern political agenda, simply a Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V of the 1977 movie. If there is a political agenda with it (which I don't think there is at all), I'd point the finger to Lucas and not Abrams/Disney.

Alex
 
In the words of Men on Film: HATED it.

I went in a blank slate even trying to forgive the unease about Rey and I came out a blank slate.

Oy Rey.

Rey may as well have been a mutant. Thats about as kind as I can be for this character. She's another annoying Whedonesque Anything you can do, I can do better. May Felicity Jones not be shoe-horned into this type of fake strong character for Rogue One. Rey took me right out of the movie and the universe. That means the film fails in my book.

Where was Phasma? Why another Death Star like weapon?

Go ahead and say the Expanded Universe is no longer cannon yet heavily borrow from it?

Finn as comedic foil and not the interesting character his defecting trooper promised.

Maz - not another Yoda please. Lupita could have done something else entirely, she was wasted. Ditto for Oscar Isaacs (whose character almost was wasted...)

Han's death? That was the best you could do?

Trying to forget as much as possible because the family are seeing it on Friday and I refuse to spoil this waste of time for them.
 
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How could Kylo Ren suddenly be strong enough to thwart Luke? How could the First Order be strong enough after the Empire had just been destroyed? How could Leia and Han divorce just over their kid? How could Han lose the Falcon if he had gone back to smuggling full time? How could the Jedi have died so quickly if the last episode had literally been called The Return of the Jedi? How could they say the Force was asleep if Luke was training new Jedi? How could the Force not be balanced if Anakin was the Chosen One?
I just can't accept any of this story line. It doesn't fit well with me. I don't feel that these are the same characters as the original trilogy.
 
Ok so I just got back from seeing it, I liked it, I will even go on record and say it was better than what Lucas created. Sure there are plot holes, but I have to believe those will be filled in future films. I like the course they have set the universe on. Now that we have a new cast of characters we will see where they go.

The idea of this movie was to bridge the past with the future. Not that that bridge has been crossed they are free to take the story in a new direction.
 
Daisy Ridley did a superb job with the character of Rey. Her expressions and mannerisms really channeled "the force" and struck a cord.
 
snip...How could the First Order be strong enough after the Empire had just been destroyed? ...snip

I wish people would stop saying this. Just because the Empire lost a single battle and their planet killing weapon does not mean the entire empire covering hundreds if not thousands of worlds suddenly vanished. Sure a power vacuum may have precipitated some factional infighting but as soon as a strong leader emerged to consolidate all that power The First Order or something very similar would be the logical outcome.
 
Ok so I just got back from seeing it, I liked it, I will even go on record and say it was better than what Lucas created. Sure there are plot holes, but I have to believe those will be filled in future films. I like the course they have set the universe on. Now that we have a new cast of characters we will see where they go.

The idea of this movie was to bridge the past with the future. Not that that bridge has been crossed they are free to take the story in a new direction.

Okay, this image is probably highly sacrilegious, but I kinda got the feeling that this new movie was kind of like:

Star_Wars_The_Next_Generation.png
 
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Okay, this image is probably highly sacrilegious, but I kinda got the feeling that this new movie was kind of like:

Whats more sacrilegious about the image is that the text of "the next generation" doesn't line up properly with the star wars title.
 
Okay, this image is probably highly sacrilegious, but I kinda got the feeling that this new movie was kind of like:

View attachment 606707
This isn't George Lucas's Star Wars anymore. No more stupid wipe edits, or over the top CGI. Sure you can complain about the plot holes but as a movie I think this one rivals the past 6. Good acting, the story moved at a good pace. The action scenes were amazing. The special effects were not over the top but still fit in the Star Wars universe. They found a way to blend the past with the future. And I'm hoping set a road map for the next 3 movies. I would say J.J. Abrams did well with this movie. I give him a B+ for overall quality.
 
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Just because the Empire lost a single battle and their planet killing weapon does not mean the entire empire covering hundreds if not thousands of worlds suddenly vanished. Sure a power vacuum may have precipitated some factional infighting but as soon as a strong leader emerged to consolidate all that power The First Order or something very similar would be the logical outcome.

"The most telling scene of The Force Awakens isn’t about Han Solo’s fate, or Rey’s powers, or BB8 and R2-D2 blooping and bleeping in harmony. It’s the scene where the First Order blows up the star system of The Republic, making for what must be the most significant atrocity ever seen in the Star Wars universe.

The Republic, remember, is what the first six movies were about saving or recreating—a civilization that’s democratic and peaceful and not ruled by black-clothed guys with behavioral issues. Return of the Jedi ended with galaxy-wide celebration following the deaths of the Emperor and Darth Vader, implying a hopeful and freer society could then thrive. The Force Awakens snuffs out that dream midway through and then moves on, quickly. If it had dwelled on the moment, viewers might realize that the heartwarming tale of overcoming they remember from the original movies was just rendered a horrific tragedy....

But after watching the movie, it feels like the most powerful reason for the Republic’s demolition is outside of the narrative. Rather than imagining what the post-Return of the Jedi civilization might have built over 30 years, J.J. Abrams wiped it out, resetting the game board to where it was in 1977: scrappy underdog fighters versus a ruthless fascist force."

-via The Atlantic (note: this whole short article is worth reading.)
 
"The most telling scene of The Force Awakens isn’t about Han Solo’s fate, or Rey’s powers, or BB8 and R2-D2 blooping and bleeping in harmony. It’s the scene where the First Order blows up the star system of The Republic, making for what must be the most significant atrocity ever seen in the Star Wars universe.

The Republic, remember, is what the first six movies were about saving or recreating—a civilization that’s democratic and peaceful and not ruled by black-clothed guys with behavioral issues. Return of the Jedi ended with galaxy-wide celebration following the deaths of the Emperor and Darth Vader, implying a hopeful and freer society could then thrive. The Force Awakens snuffs out that dream midway through and then moves on, quickly. If it had dwelled on the moment, viewers might realize that the heartwarming tale of overcoming they remember from the original movies was just rendered a horrific tragedy....

But after watching the movie, it feels like the most powerful reason for the Republic’s demolition is outside of the narrative. Rather than imagining what the post-Return of the Jedi civilization might have built over 30 years, J.J. Abrams wiped it out, resetting the game board to where it was in 1977: scrappy underdog fighters versus a ruthless fascist force."
While everything you say about this movie is true, I also think they will fill in the back story. Don't forget there will be stand alone movies that will fill in the gaps. This was in many ways a recap movie, trying to fill in the gaps from 30 years. There is only so much they can do with 2 hours. Sure they could have dived deeper into a story here and saved more for episode VIII. I truly believe we will get answers to the past 30 years.
 
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Ok so I just got back from seeing it, I liked it, I will even go on record and say it was better than what Lucas created. Sure there are plot holes, but I have to believe those will be filled in future films. I like the course they have set the universe on. Now that we have a new cast of characters we will see where they go.

The idea of this movie was to bridge the past with the future. Not that that bridge has been crossed they are free to take the story in a new direction.

Like a huge portion of the pop.
I wish people would stop saying this. Just because the Empire lost a single battle and their planet killing weapon does not mean the entire empire covering hundreds if not thousands of worlds suddenly vanished. Sure a power vacuum may have precipitated some factional infighting but as soon as a strong leader emerged to consolidate all that power The First Order or something very similar would be the logical outcome.
I wish people would stop saying this. Just because the Empire lost a single battle and their planet killing weapon does not mean the entire empire covering hundreds if not thousands of worlds suddenly vanished. Sure a power vacuum may have precipitated some factional infighting but as soon as a strong leader emerged to consolidate all that power The First Order or something very similar would be the logical outcome.

1. The empire lost it's emporer. That's a rather major loss, no? It's basically the end of the empire. They didn't just lose a "single battle."

2. The empire lost it's second in command. Vader's dead.

3. Their most powerful weapon has been destroyed. Losing a "death star" is rather important, eh?

4. Most, if not all of their command structure is dead.

5. Their star destroyer fleet is destroyed.

In other words, the dark side is completely finished.

On the flip, Luke has just come into his powers. Leia is just beginning to discover hers. There is peace throughout the galaxy.

But, noooooooo. None of this matters now. The dark side has magically regrouped, creating a new death star approximately 100X as large in just 30 years totally undetected by the republic and light side. This new death star destroys entire SYSTEMS all at once.

So, 1. the republic doesn't nip it in the bud, 2) doesn't even know about it apparently until the last second 3) luke even becomes a recluse despite the far more menacing threat 4) but none of it matters anyway because the alliance regroups at the last second and destroys the new death star with just a handful of ships. Yeah, yeah, one alien in an x wing gets blown up, but otherwise, the republic walks away virtually unscathed.

It's incredibly lazy storytelling. TFA relies heavily on emotional triggers, and leverages all of them for maximum impact.

I'm not as big of a ST fan, but that reboot had a big emotional impact on me as well. The thing is, I don't have much desire to ever see it again. Why? Because the story is not very compelling. It's great seeing the cameos and seeing the franchise rebooted (in a highly improbable way: Spock returns from the future to give his blessing and make his cameo and thereby give the reboot legitimacy), but it's not great for repeat viewing. Quality storytelling is important, and TFA is a major failure in this regard.

It is a remake. It's a GOOD remake. It's not a sequel.
 
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While everything you say about this movie is true, I also think they will fill in the back story. Don't forget there will be stand alone movies that will fill in the gaps. This was in many ways a recap movie, trying to fill in the gaps from 30 years. There is only so much they can do with 2 hours. Sure they could have dived deeper into a story here and saved more for episode VIII. I truly believe we will get answers to the past 30 years.

Daisy Ridley was apparently very pleased with the Ep8 script, not that she would ever be critical if she didn't like it. I'm sure spoilers will be out soon enough if you really want to know.
 
Daisy Ridley was apparently very pleased with the Ep8 script, not that she would ever be critical if she didn't like it. I'm sure spoilers will be out soon enough if you really want to know.

It wouldn't to hard to figure out what happens. The First Order wins a few battles, Kylo Ren's back story is filled out. Fin faces trials and tribulations, Rey studies the force with Luke. Rey an Fin are reunited at the end. Rey must give up a part of herself.
 
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Yes, Rey is Luke's student now (perhaps his daughter as well?)
It wouldn't to hard to figure out what happens. The First Order wins a few battles, Kylo Ren's back story is filled out. Fin faces trials and tribulations, Rey studies the force with Luke. Rey an Fin are reunited at the end. Rey must give up a part of herself.

True, true, I don't know how important the Fin character is. I don't really see his function in this trilogy, except as a Rey sidekick.

I hope they have more action sequences, esp. in space. It's a huge draw for the franchise, at least for me.

On a different note, Disney only paid Lucas $4B for the entire franchise. Ep 7 alone will likely gross $3B or very close to it. Lucas shoulda held out, at least for $5B!
 
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Yes, Rey is Luke's student now (perhaps his daughter as well?)


True, true, I don't know how important the Fin character is. I don't really see his function in this trilogy, except as a Rey sidekick.

I hope they have more action sequences, esp. in space. It's a huge draw for the franchise, at least for me.

On a different note, Disney only paid Lucas $4B for the entire franchise. Ep 7 alone will likely gross $3B or very close to it. Lucas shoulda held out, at least for $5B!
Lucas will be fine, he still owns the merchandising rights.
 
I saw this film at the first showing possible last night. As one expected, the crowd in the theatre was excited and brimming. Loud cheers erupted at the opening screen and theme song.... This was going to be like Terminator 2 in my mind -- movie packed with energy and crowd giddiness.

... And then it happened ... we were presented with "Star Wars a New Hope" all over again. OK, updated with cuter robot, Luke is a hot chick now etc etc... There is no denying it, this new movie is just the original movie with a moderately updated script.

Shame on you JJ and Disney... shame shame shame. When the movie finished, all that energy and excitement was absolutely gone. Nobody cheered, nobody waited through the credits for any little teaser, just stunned silence.


Good post. Agree to disagree. Loved it. BTW, JJ advertised that there would be NO trailer after the credits. That is why I left. I do agree that it did not move me like the opening night of Empire Strikes Back. I think that had to do with the fact that I was 9 back then and am a 45 year old now.
 
My suspension of disbelief can only go so far...

If Kylo Ren can force push Rey really hard in the forest and knock her out cold, why doesn't he just use the force and make Finn cut himself? Easy kill.

I do not buy that the 3rd death star, after 30 years of additional R&D into these types of weapons, still has some sort of exploitable weakness that destroys the ENTIRE thing. Really?
 
My suspension of disbelief can only go so far...

If Kylo Ren can force push Rey really hard in the forest and knock her out cold, why doesn't he just use the force and make Finn cut himself? Easy kill.

I do not buy that the 3rd death star, after 30 years of additional R&D into these types of weapons, still has some sort of exploitable weakness that destroys the ENTIRE thing. Really?
You must really hate watching James Bond movies.
 
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