Steve Jobs at Apple Town Hall Meeting, Google, Adobe, Next iPhone, 2010 Macs and More

[MacBram]

I find it interesting that everyone comments on flash/silverlight being proprietary and no one talks about H.264 which is required along with HTML 5 to replace flash. This is a proprietary standard which just happens to be owned at least partially by Apple. If you want to argue about the proprietary issues then this has to at least be discussed. I am in the market to buy my first mac in the next month or so if they come out with an i5/i7 macbook pro but I'm not impressed when I see this kind of information and am considering rethinking a purchase. As a possible future purchaser and I own about 4-5 computers which I will eventually replace and possibly my phone as well, this kind of info about Apple doesn't impress me. Still strongly considering but they will really have to impress me with their GRAPHICS options as well as their chips. No ipad for me until they give an SD card slot (expandable storage), support for the current standards, real eInk, and multitasking (which I can do with my blackberry storm, and commonly flip between web, game, messages, applications).

How is H264 proprietary? It is an "open standard" developed by the same group that has JPEG and MPEG2 (DVD anyone?), MP3 (audio anyone?). MP4 is the video file format and H264 is the best codec for it, bar none.

Now it may require the makers of players to license a decoder, as does MPEG2 for DVD, but that doesn't make it proprietary in any shape or form. Apple happens to include a hardware decoder for it in their devices, and everyone else is too cheap. It is very nice quality, clear video for its file size.

You don't need decoding software or plugins from Apple to play it. Other than update their codec support, browsers could cope with it fine, because it is MP4 and most browsers handle that out of the box -- that is how open it is, and how going HTML5 is only confirming a natural route that is already being taken. Google have shown the way with YouTube.

Flash and Silverlight are proprietary in the sense that you need the software from Adobe and MS and Adobe and MS are in full control of their development (or non-development as the case may be). So, the BBC, etc. can just got off their lame anti-Apple kicks, get out of bed with MS and stop spiting their own noses by using the truly proprietary junk that come out of Adobe and MS and for which we have to keep messing with plugins.

Thank goodness the standards bodies "saw the light" and didn't make Silverlight the de facto standard for HTML5 video, but left it open so that video can be defined by the web developer just as images are now (you can include links to JPEG, GIF, PNG, etc. and they "just work" -- without the need for different individual plugins for different types of images, or hadn't you noticed that it's something that you don't have to notice).

The idea is that now video on the web will "just work" through the browser, without proprietary plugins for various types of clips you want to watch. And BTW you don't "need" H264 video along with HTML5, but it is at this point the best option.

So, tell me, what plugins are you needing to view the H264 versions of the YouTube videos? As for Graphics, a plethora of options aren't quite as critical on the Mac as they are on a PC -- Quartz technology is pretty well sorted, while Aero, or whatever MS' attempt at copying Quartz is called, seems to be a real hit or miss area.

 

[ungraphic]

OpenCL is not ready for prime time even from Nvidia. Their drivers are still in Beta.

OpenCL from AMD's ATi branch was just released.

Apple is getting their OpenGL stack up to 3.x. Once that is implemented they can share resources with OpenCL.

They need to hurry up on this. OpenGL is a potentially great API, and too little has been done in the graphics card department for macs. Windows users are basking in direct x 11 while mac users are enjoying their limited choice of overpriced video cards, crappy game ports, and little effective use of the cards, on top of that, theres also the EFI issue with mac pros, which limits the cards to use on older macs (which is the category i fall into).

The whole graphics card issue is such a mess, i cant believe people arent giving more **** to apple about it, its unforgiveable. we as consumers tolerate for too much when paying top dollar for the mighty apple, we get SHAFTED in the end.

 

[Imperil]

the same way you do on the iphone. with the app they created for it.

Google has already started moving YouTube over to HTML5 instead of Flash. It is just the beginning and a beta so it will take awhile longer to get rid of the Flash version, but you can check out the HTML5 version now:

http://www.youtube.com/html5

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

did someone miss the announcement or is this just a serious case of total denial.

because no. it is not. and in fact has nothing to do with the mac line at all. per Jobs and friends

Crystal Ball vision that is all.

 

[kernkraft]

Apple wants to be a toaster company. I'm not sure what the means for the rest of us in the long term.

With overheating computers, with white plastic, hygienic aluminium and previously used stainless steel; they are halfway there.

So expect more of the white plastic and aluminium. Meanwhile, other computer manufacturers will have colourful products.

 

[gibbz]

Dear stans of Apple (94% of this forum)... please realize... that all because someone disagrees with you, or likes another device better, or even disagrees with a Apple made product, does not make them "delusional"... in fact you even look delusional for calling them delusional.

Dear newbie ... that is you .... please realize that this site is entitled "MacRumors", emphasis on "Mac." The fact that people here like Apple products doesn't make them "stans", but rather capable of understanding the target audience of a website, which coincidentally has escaped your grasp.

 

[Vulpinemac]

Apple is in a fortunate position to have unusually high cash reserve. Arguably, companies in this situation start buying up companies and sooner or later, they start wasting money and destroying these companies. I don't think that they couldn't spend more on R&D for the tablet. In practical terms, I don't think that this screen is anywhere near to the Kindle's. With books, colour does not matter. With browsing, Flash matters. With pictures, a built-in USB port matters.

I'll discuss the things you mentioned before this a little bit later; however, on this specific point, I have to disagree. Unlike Hewlett-Packard, who spent money to buy out Compaq and bring that brand in house, Apple's purchases are obviously intended to improve the technology, not just expand the brand. Nearly every company that Apple has purchase has been subsumed into the Apple package and become part of their products, in one way or another. Even the CPU engineering firm they purchased became Apple's in-house designer of custom chips, helping to wean Apple away from the established manufacturers and avoiding the disagreements that effectively forced Apple to migrate from the PPC platform onto Intel. With the A4 chip, Apple is saying, "We're not dependent on your chips. You don't do what we want, we'll do it for ourselves."

Secondly, your argument about screens, Flash and USB sounds exactly like the arguments that came out with the first iMac, when floppys, serial ports and parallel ports were eliminated. Everybody said the iMac couldn't succeed, but instead, the iMac turned Apple's fortunes around, bringing them back into profitability and making them a major player in the desktop/laptop computer market.

They might have overlooked the competition and found themselves in a situation when there is an artificial hype around their new product, which does not live up to the expectations. Whoever will lose money on Apple stocks in the next few months, can blame this.

Losing control over quality management, upsetting basic customer groups and continuously relying on dated technology might not be the best insurance that Apple can perform well in, let's say two years' time.

These arguments repeat all the old arguments that were made 4-, 9-, 13-, and even 26 years ago. The brands relying on 'dated' technology are the ones using Windows in most cases. Nearly every improvement to the generic PC environment is nothing but a tweak to 25 year old technology, with things like USB and SSDs usually getting adopted by Apple before anyone else considers it worth pushing.

Even your argument about quality management and upsetting customer groups has been proven wrong more than once, Apple's quality clearly superior simply through the expedient of measuring the customer satisfaction of the brand and its devices. Apple's Customer Satisfaction Rating runs approximately 80% or better for products and service, with Dell pulling second at 70% product, 65% service. The next nearest company falls to a distant third at around 55%.

No, conservatism means no improvements--what we have is good enough. Apple says, "It's not good enough!"

 

[jaykk]

I am thinking Linux, not Windows.

That is why I love my NetBook, I can install any OS I want (except Mac OS X). Funny thing about GUI, it can be mimicked by Linux. All up to the user if they want more eye-candy or not.

Thats so true about eye-candy. I tried windows 7 RC on fusion, and just turned of all the eye-candy to see if I can get a better performance. What did I get - a just plain old windows 2000 style menu system and tool bars and what not.

I didn't know where to start. No useful programs right out of the box anyways. With a mac, you get iLife programs to start with right away. (and full unix to play with, webserver etc if you are a developer) For windows, I have to download Firefox, Picasa, tomcat etc to have a real useful machine. Since then I never booted up windows 7. Its a lipstick on a old pig. So right out of the box, Mac gives a better experience than windows ever will.

iPad with iWork, oWorks (Omni) (and later iLife) will have a much better user experience than any of the other tablets out there.

 

[Voltaic]

This makes no sense. Either Apple's products meet your needs or they don't. If not, move on.

=XX=-Nephilim was replying to my comment as a 20+ year user. It is not as easy as you suggest to move on after huge software/hardware investments. Investments made believing in the platform. You, and most fanboys, seem to ignore the fact that we are here criticizing Apple in the hopes of changing its focus, course for the better. Not for the sport.

When Apple was going through dire times, I stock by it because I believed in the platform, there were compelling reasons. Apple is becoming a victim of its own success and neglecting its base.We are not discussing the Playstation vs. the XBox here. Some of us need the right products at competitive prices to make a living, especially in these difficult times.

 

[Hankus]

Dear newbie ... that is you .... please realize that this site is entitled "MacRumors", emphasis on "Mac." The fact that people here like Apple products doesn't make them "stans", but rather capable of understanding the target audience of a website, which coincidentally has escaped your grasp.

Newbie, Gibbz doesn't tolerate dissent. Smarten up. This is an Apple fan forum, therefore you tow the line.

 

[Freyqq]

As for Adobe, Jobs said they are lazy and Jobs blames Adobe for a buggy implementation of Flash on the Mac as one of the reasons they won't support it.

Regardless of how buggy flash may be, the whole world uses it for a lot of stuff. Not supporting it on the ipad is a huge disaster waiting to happen...no hulu, no online video other than youtube, no flash games, whole web sites based on flash will not work, etc It makes sense on an iphone b\c of battery concerns, but honestly..an ipad could have a battery the size of a netbook's and do just fine with flash if it were included. Just have an option to turn it on and off depending on the situation.

Waiting for everyone to switch to html5 will take years and years. It may never happen completely at all. What then apple?

 

[MyBrainIsSpeakn]

Except you're forgetting that if a device is from Apple, the overall experience (combination of UI, ease of use, and hardware) would most likely still be better than the competitors devices. It's one of the main things people like about their products.

Except you aren't realizing what I was saying... say if you don't like Windows 7... if that exact product was labeled a Apple product, I was saying many will be saying screw Snow Leopard, but it would be from Microsoft, labeled as a Windows product. Fanboyism.

 

[mrgreen4242]

if you allow flash - the app developers would suffer revenue loss - and then we would suffer because they wouldn't have the money to make better apps.

Ditto iBooks, movies, music and tv shows.

Flash = $25 handguns in pawnbrokers.

Freedom that ultimately diminishes freedom.

That was ignorant on so, so many levels.

 

[martint84]

Apple should make a competitor to Photoshop. It should be at least as good as Photoshop, and as professional as Final Cut Pro. It would be cheaper, better, and Apple. Also, it would only run on Macs, so everyone working on photos who's still using Windows would switch over.

It is clear that Adobe only cares about the Windows versions of its programs, and that the Mac versions are just ported over, resulting in a buggy interface that doesn't work with Exposé or Spaces at all, not to mention the overall performance loss compared to the Windows versions. Photoshop is their main thing, and it's the reason people still depend on Adobe. They're neglecting all of their products due to the lack of competition.

Right now Adobe has absolutely NO competition whatsoever in the fields of Photoshop and Flash, and this is why they are making no effort in making these products better and more efficient. All they do is release a new version every year just to get people to buy it again, paying ridiculous amounts of money for a piece of software that's slower than the previous one, less stable, and has an even stupider user interface that is impossible to use if you would like to work the way you always have for years.

There's no doubt in my mind that Apple has been working on these things for years, just waiting for the opportunity to release them. The question is how can they get the professional community to switch. I love iWork, but it certainly isn't a huge success. Maybe the iPad will change that...

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

They need to hurry up on this. OpenGL is a potentially great API, and too little has been done in the graphics card department for macs. Windows users are basking in direct x 11 while mac users are enjoying their limited choice of overpriced video cards, crappy game ports, and little effective use of the cards, on top of that, theres also the EFI issue with mac pros, which limits the cards to use on older macs (which is the category i fall into).

The whole graphics card issue is such a mess, i cant believe people arent giving more **** to apple about it, its unforgiveable. we as consumers tolerate for too much when paying top dollar for the mighty apple, we get SHAFTED in the end.

Apple customers in an uproar.

Seriously though I can use any desktop or notebook I like, I prefer . Why because they last me for at least 5 years and as long as the OS is supported and runs on it, I am fine with it. I am not an avid game player, so it does not affect me. However if for some reason started to limit me from the web on my Mac desktop or notebook, that is when I jump ship.

I am almost tempted to jailbreak my iPhone/iPod Touch to be honest.

 

[btcutter]

I make an app, I want to package it and sell it however I damn well want to, just like app makers on any computer platform. I own a device and need an app, so I go wherever I damn well want to, to get one. Informed?

As an "average" end user, I rather someone police it so your "app" doesn't crash "my device".

Look at Windows, everyone write an application and eventually "forgets" to update to keep up with software/hardware updates.....crash.

As an end user, I want someone making sure your application is tested and updated so it's ALWAYS compatible with my hardware/software.

Sure, sometimes it's restrictive but I rather have a working device

 

[skellener]

I dont remember the last time my computer crashed, froze or firefox crashed due to flash.

Me neither since I installed "Click2Flash".

 

[MacPhilosopher]

Sure...

There really should be a option for Mac Book Pros, since it's not very easy to add your own internal drive.


Allot of video producers are gonna need to be able to burn Blu-rays on the go soon.

It is nice to have the option to burn DVD's or Blu-ray on a laptop, but it is certainly not recommended as a standard procedure. In my experience, dedicating hours of compression and burn time on a laptop is just not practical. In a pinch, sure, but the wear and tear on your gear from heat and spin and hard drive access is just not worth it. Most video producers that need to burn discs on the road should use and external drive unit to burn masters and copies.

 

[-=XX=-Nephilim]

I am thinking Linux, not Windows.

That is why I love my NetBook, I can install any OS I want (except Mac OS X). Funny thing about GUI, it can be mimicked by Linux. All up to the user if they want more eye-candy or not.

Hehe

Frankly, I would be using Linux since long time ago if I can run all the apps that I need for my work...

Unfortunately my only choices are - Mac or PC

I am still more than happy with MBP - its great! - but will need to replace it at some point... Hopefully with a new MBP but I honestly think that Apple is loosing touch with the reality so we will see what happens...

I mean I am not going to be paying way more for way less while at the same time listening to some old man (that is Steve!) shouting at me and telling me what to use and what not...

Guy is a nutter

In fact, I still believe that this article is fake since how on earth can he say such a stupid things in public! Disaster...

 

[Hankus]

As an "average" end user, I rather someone police it so your "app" doesn't crash "my device".

Out of curiosity, is your Mac an unstable device? I find it really weird that people, assuming they're also Mac fans, are using that argument to defend the iPhone OS on iPad.

 

[Banyan Bruce]

Maybe Apple should show Adobe how it's done !!!

Yes, I wish Apple had Flash, but not Flash as it stands today. If Apple can help put the final nail in Adobe's purchased format, and push us towards HTML5 faster, than I'm with Apple.

It's all very well knocking Flash as clunky etc....maybe Apple should put some that cash mountain into producing something that does the job better. Without easy to develop interactivity similar to that offered by Flash tools TODAY, this tablet will fall short of the huge potential it promised to be. Educational ebooks won't be engaging enough unless they deliver real interactivity for assessment and learning.

Flash tools are actually used by kids to develop educational tools for others. How is that going to work. Before knocking flash down offer than alternative or buy Adobe Flash Technology and show us how it should be done.

There are just too many niggling issues that will make potential buyers look long and hard at the competition. The longer they look the more flaws they'll see in the iPad's offering.

 

[jaykk]

Except you aren't realizing what I was saying... say if you don't like Windows 7... if that exact product was labeled a Apple product, I was saying many will be saying screw Snow Leopard, but it would be from Microsoft, labeled as a Windows product. Fanboyism.

The problem with Microsoft is that, they don't get basic stuff right. They have so many features, but the core system is still an issue. Mac gives a much better experience installing software ( drag to app folder) etc and had Documents, Pictures etc on a well organized manner. How long did they take it to move away from "My documents and settings" and have clumsy user document management.

I agree, apple doesn't offer too many features( or it takes away , restrict etc), but the feature they ship do work.

And apple will never ship Windows 7 style products, its just windows underneath it ( DEC VMS core that is)

 

[jfanning]

Look at an example on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray codecs. VC one is the most preferred codec on HD videos, Microsoft makes money each time we play a video.

On Blu-ray vc-1 is used on around 30% or releases, avc 58%

 

[mosx]

Image quality wise, yes. But the jump from DVD to Bluray is purely definition. So overall I wouldn't say the leap is as big as VHS to DVD, which brought us instant searching, chapters, digital quality, smaller sized medium.

I continue to buy DVD since when I use bluray in a living room environment, even on my 46" Bravia the detail is completely lost when sat back on a sofa. If I had a bigger TV I'd probably stick to bluray. Till then... 576p for me!

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but if you're saying that, then you honestly don't own a blu-ray player and have never seen a blu-ray disc in action.

The difference between blu-ray disc and DVD is night and day on any display. Any display from a MacBook screen (which I've run a blu-ray disc on) all the way up to the largest HDTVs. Theres just no comparison. Blu-ray blows away DVD on any high definition display. Any.

Blu-ray also has a better menu system than DVD, being accessible while the movie is playing without having to stop it.

Don't forget audio quality either. DVDs tend to use 448kbps AC3 (384 in some cases). Blu-ray discs typically use lossless or uncompressed audio. The difference between the two is just as dramatic as the difference in image quality between blu-ray and DVD.

People want blu-ray disc and the sales show it. The format is doing fantastic and is being adopted faster than DVD was.

 

[opticalserenity]

Me neither since I installed "Click2Flash".

That's so true, and funny.

I can't wait till no websites use flash. I email / submit surveys to every website I frequent telling them to stop using flash.

You go Steve!