Steve Jobs at Apple Town Hall Meeting, Google, Adobe, Next iPhone, 2010 Macs and More

[kernkraft]

Future jailbroken reference

I have bookmarked your post because in 6-8 months when you own one I will be able to quote this.

That is the only reason why I don't dare to be outright nasty about the iPad.

 

[satcomer]

I'll never understand the whole "Flash crashes browsers" argument.
I've used Flash for years, and it's never once caused a browser crash. Ever.

Wanna know what has? Apple.com.

Windows Troll!

 

[localoid]

Apple wants to be a toaster company. I'm not sure what the means for the rest of us in the long term.

RE: The Apple Toaster Co.

It's not about helping you make better toast. The goal is to make you want to pay for and consume the proper kind of bread. And consumers need to be trained to buy it via the iBread store.

 

[Hankus]

Does that mean you don't like the operating system you've not yet seen and played with (though I am assuming you haven't played with it yourself)? Is that your only gripe? The operating system? You didn't mention anything about the tasks so I assume what it can do (or will do in v2) is not the issue?? Is that correct?

The thing I find silly about that is that I believe Apple understands user interfaces better than any other company. I've programmed on Apples and PCs and I have loaded Ubuntu currently on my IBM laptop, and I am certain that Apple understands user interfaces and user experience better than any other company.

So, I find it strange you would discount this device you haven't seen when you know they do these things very, very well (given your past support for their products). Do you not have some faith that they did this well? This is a whole new paradigm for interacting with computers and I for one believe that Apple is the company that will understand the paradigm best and execute better than everyone else.

If you believe otherwise, you're basing your decision on assumptions, and if you choose to go the Google route, fine, have fun with your product in x years time (if they release one), and I'll have had fun with this product all the while you wait for something that doesn't yet exist. Don't take my joy away from me - this product meets all my requirements in a device. If yours aren't met, go elsewhere and find a company that will and leave us to enjoy these wonderful products.

They did phones brilliantly. Absolutely hit it out of the park. Revolutionized the industry. And then did f-all for two and a half years. Now they release the iPad, which uses the same os and closed software model, taking something that works for phones and moving it to a new category closer to desktop computing. It limits choice for users, but makes tons of money for shareholders. That accounts for a lot of the support it has. But, I digress. Apple missed the boat. The bar has been set low, their competitors, who already have phone OS's that multitask and support flash etc can now move in and do it right. Such is the way of business.

William, you can have your joy. Don't let my opinions take that away from you.

 

[WilliamLondon]

Ok, now you're attacking me.

You are wrong, pure and simple, you are wrong, I did not attack you. Not ever, not ever. I chose my words carefully because I believe civility should be honoured in discourse, which it isn't always unfortunately.

 

[martint84]

Spot on sir!

I am really really really hoping Steve doesn't push me to switch to Win but the way he is going its highly likely

EDIT: My post was a little too aggressive. Sorry if I offended anyone...

 

[Rot'nApple]

I have to disagree, I think the only people this will cater to is those who really enjoy reading..

Which is what I have been doing for the last 32 pages of some 789+ posts!

 

[csimmons]

doesnt bill gates/microsoft own a large percentage of apples stock rendering the companys decisions somewhat limiting? somebody correct me on this, but ive had friends tell me microsoft owns a large chunk of apples stock so they cant do whatever they like.

either way though, no matter what apple is making, its peanuts compared to microsoft.

MS made a one time investment of 150 million in Apple, which was largely symbolic, since even when Apple was supposedly on the ropes at the end of '96 it still has about a billion in the bank.

 

[jfanning]

Agreed on the "messy" part. The day I stopped buying blue-rays was when I bought one and couldn't use it. Apparently, my Samsung player is not "ready" for the messy java menu implementation on that particular disc.

See the problem there is not Blu-Ray, it is Samsung, they can't make a player to save themselves, their DVD players were crap, and their Blu-Ray players are crap.

And don't compare one companies player implementation to Apple, Apple would have to write their own software, so Steve saying the software is messy, is just saying that Apple can't work out how to do it, ie it competes with what we are doing, and beats us as well.

Oh, did I forget to mention that some discs take about 2 minutes to load?

Again, a Samsung issue

Blue-Ray was the best way to put a good technology to waste. The media is great, the software and the way they decided to make the menus and all the "piracy protection" crap is where it is messy. I think this was the best way to punish those who actually buy and try to use the players and discs, because the pirates, well, they are enjoying their "downloaded" movies without that crap.

The piracy protection was pushed by two companies Fox, and Disney, hmm Disney...

Blue-Ray? As a media, great, as a movie container for players, a disgrace. Most HD movies would fit in a DVD, and they just put it on Blue-Ray to avoid "piracy". Grats! You're scaring your customers!

How do you get a 40GB movie on a 8GB disc without compressing the hell out of it?

 

[mosx]

I don't own one Blue Ray DVD. I have 200+ DVD's, all on my Mac's external HDD and then I sync some to my Apple TV.
I can't say never.. but I don't see my anytime soon adopting Blue Ray. I don't see much point in it, DVD's were working fine, and we were all slowly moving to Digital, no need to create another type of DVD. Ah well

Well, it's "blu-ray disc", not "Blue Ray DVD".

Blu-ray offers 6 times higher resolution than DVD, up to 10 times the video bitrate, and lossless or uncompressed audio.

The difference between blu-ray and DVD is night and day, and much much greater than the jump from VHS to DVD.

No downloadable format can currently compare or even compete with blu-ray video. iTunes "HD" video doesn't even compete with upscaled DVDs.

- Blu-Ray is a ridiculous mess with little marginal value attached and hasn't deserved a place in the Mac product line yet

Oh its you again. Several people who have proven your argument wrong in the other thread and you have yet to reply.

Blu-ray is no mess. That is a lie put forth by those who want it to fail for some unknown and illogical reasons.

Marginal value? Six times the video resolution and up to ten times the bitrate with lossless or uncompressed audio? Hardly marginal. Thats what we call a night and day difference.

So what are Mac owners supposed to do for HD video? iTunes poor and extremely small library of HD videos that don't even look as good as upscaled DVDs?

The problem is, BluRay movie sales is only 13%. The forum members here might not like to admit it, but we are nowhere near the average consumer. Most of our parents, friends, and neighbors don't have BR players, some don't even know what it is. BluRay will come to the Mac when more people want and need it.

You're forgetting that DVD was not an overnight success either. It took DVD 6 full years to finally break 51% market share. Right now, when you compare time lines, blu-ray is being adopted faster than DVD was.

 

[0098386]

My take: Its pretty clear to me that the iPad will effectively mark the end of the laptop, if not with the first version, but most likely with the second version.

That's a joke, right?

 

[IlluminatedSage]

I use optical media all the time. As a graphic designer and photographer, projects and photo shoots get backed up to discs, as do clients receive a copy of the shoot for personal use. I've burned DVDs of divx compressed home movies along with pictures, which did not fit onto a single disc, which is where bluray would help. I have an incredible amount of downloaded content (tv shows, movies, etc) that belongs on bluray days, instead of taking up hard drive space on either my storage drive in my mac pro or my external which is primarily for backups. 50gb per disc to use as storage is a huge plus. Why wouldn anyone want to omit that?

The addition of watching bluray movies on my computer is another bonus, because as we all know, DVDs are eventually going to be phased out and bluray will take over completely.

I'm patiently waiting for bluray, its not a necessity for me yet, but I do see myself slapping a bluray burner into my mac eventually.

i am also frustrated by no blu-ray and even flash, alot of websites use it... and well it is helpful to have. even if safari will crash

 

[cmaier]

Spot on sir!

I am really really really hoping Steve doesn't push me to switch to Win but the way he is going its highly likely

This makes no sense. Either Apple's products meet your needs or they don't. If not, move on.

 

[HLdan]

I need to find an article or news story on this, i need to know. Too many people are saying random things assuming their knowledge is correct and making wild statements. I knew something was off about MS having stock options in Apple.....

Then why even ask anybody here if you still need confirmation?. For the record, you're wrong about Microsoft owning any of Apple's stock.

 

[Hankus]

I believe civility should be honoured in discourse, which it isn't always unfortunately.

Agreed.

 

[jaykk]

You mean back in the 80s when they first came out with a desktop? Now they have gone mobile and neglected you.

I do agree that blind comments on either side are silly.

Here is a good article on the iPad with a slant of old world vs. new world computing.

Thats a good read, I think apple is preparing us for a paradigm shift with iPad. And I guess apple compromised some of the things ( like camera etc) to get the device out there for $499 price point and wants developers to start developing for the new platform.

You can consider this as a developer machine apple introduced when they switched from PowerPC to Intel. But this time, they can market iPad to consumers as well as developers, since they have zillions of iphone apps running on iPad from day one.

 

[charlituna]

iPad will be a detachable screen for the MacBook and MacBook Pro. Detach it and it's an iPad and connecting it to the base will allow for a keyboard, trackpad, better graphic, optical drive, longer battery life, more memory, HDD space, etc... you get the picture.

did someone miss the announcement or is this just a serious case of total denial.

because no. it is not. and in fact has nothing to do with the mac line at all. per Jobs and friends

 

[MyBrainIsSpeakn]

Dear stans of Apple (94% of this forum)... please realize... that all because someone disagrees with you, or likes another device better, or even disagrees with a Apple made product, does not make them "delusional"... in fact you even look delusional for calling them delusional.

If Steve told you stans to drink a certain special lemonade... I wonder how much of the earth's population would be wiped out?

Truth is, iPad is not a significant step into the technology of Tomorrow... its a step to making the iPhone... bigger... the iPhone is Steve's main focus...

Where Steve will mess up... putting too much focus on the iPhone... he is making Apple more of a mobile company now... this thing with Google... meaningless... has Apple forgotten about Microsoft? They have been quite lately... which isn't good... Courier...

I bet a billion dollars, that if all the Apple competitor devices, were actually from Apple, and the Apple devices were actually from the competitors... you all would be yelling at the devices you love to death now... get it? If not... read it again...

 

[jfanning]

I don't own one Blue Ray DVD. I have 200+ DVD's, all on my Mac's external HDD and then I sync some to my Apple TV.
I can't say never.. but I don't see my anytime soon adopting Blue Ray. I don't see much point in it, DVD's were working fine, and we were all slowly moving to Digital, no need to create another type of DVD. Ah well

Digital download is the term, CDs, DVDs, VCDs, SVCDs, Blu-Ray etc are all digital

 

[0098386]

The difference between blu-ray and DVD is night and day, and much much greater than the jump from VHS to DVD.

Image quality wise, yes. But the jump from DVD to Bluray is purely definition. So overall I wouldn't say the leap is as big as VHS to DVD, which brought us instant searching, chapters, digital quality, smaller sized medium.

I continue to buy DVD since when I use bluray in a living room environment, even on my 46" Bravia the detail is completely lost when sat back on a sofa. If I had a bigger TV I'd probably stick to bluray. Till then... 576p for me!

 

[diabolic]

The pad will sell but not well.

Frankly I'd be shocked if it isn't far and away the best selling tablet over the next 3 years.

Personally, I see the iPad failing. It doesn't really do anything that I need or do not already have in my laptop or phone.

Then you must not be in the target market. There are millions who are. In my immediate family, I guarantee there are at least 4 instant purchases. And none of them will remotely care about supporting Flash or having a camera. For me, the 10" touchscreen alone will give a better experience browsing the web than my iPhone or laptops.

Apple has a very nice head start, and I'll tell you another thing ... this time next year you will be able to walk into a cell phone store and get an iPad for next to nothing with an internet contract. I put money on that.

The head start is a big deal. Developers will continue to make money using the app store. The sheer number of high quality apps available will keep them ahead of competitors.

I bet a billion dollars, that if all the Apple competitor devices, were actually from Apple, and the Apple devices were actually from the competitors... you all would be yelling at the devices you love to death now... get it? If not... read it again...

Except you're forgetting that if a device is from Apple, the overall experience (combination of UI, ease of use, and hardware) would most likely still be better than the competitors devices. It's one of the main things people like about their products.

 

[baryon]

Apple should make a competitor to Photoshop. It should be at least as good as Photoshop, and as professional as Final Cut Pro. It would be cheaper, better, and Apple. Also, it would only run on Macs, so everyone working on photos who's still using Windows would switch over.

It is clear that Adobe only cares about the Windows versions of its programs, and that the Mac versions are just ported over, resulting in a buggy interface that doesn't work with Exposé or Spaces at all, not to mention the overall performance loss compared to the Windows versions. Photoshop is their main thing, and it's the reason people still depend on Adobe. They're neglecting all of their products due to the lack of competition.

Right now Adobe has absolutely NO competition whatsoever in the fields of Photoshop and Flash, and this is why they are making no effort in making these products better and more efficient. All they do is release a new version every year just to get people to buy it again, paying ridiculous amounts of money for a piece of software that's slower than the previous one, less stable, and has an even stupider user interface that is impossible to use if you would like to work the way you always have for years.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

Spot on sir!

I am really really really hoping Steve doesn't push me to switch to Win but the way he is going its highly likely

I am thinking Linux, not Windows.

That is why I love my NetBook, I can install any OS I want (except Mac OS X). Funny thing about GUI, it can be mimicked by Linux. All up to the user if they want more eye-candy or not.

 

[Hankus]

Thats a good read, I think apple is preparing us for a paradigm shift with iPad. And I guess apple compromised some of the things ( like camera etc) to get the device out there for $499 price point and wants developers to start developing for the new platform.

You can consider this as a developer machine apple introduced when they switched from PowerPC to Intel. But this time, they can market iPad to consumers as well as developers, since they have zillions of iphone apps running on iPad from day one.

Do people really want a ton of devices that only do a couple of things each, but do them well, or is that something that makes a lot of money for the companies that make them, so they're trying to create markets for them and change our paradigms?

Give me a lighter, slimmer, faster, more powerful laptop that can do everything and I'll gladly pay more for it. You won't though, Apple, because you want to dominate and get as much of my money as you can.

 

[csimmons]

Interesting....few comments here.

First, this HTML5 thing is true, but how long will it take to become mainstream. How many sites will have to completely redevelop their site to HTML5? There is still room for flash, and I am sorry steve, you are wrong here. Yet I also see and understand the reason why not implement it. Adobe needs to step it up, both companies are saying "we don't need them, they need us" and one just needs to fold.

I believe adobe is starting to find alternative ways around this. Take a look at this: http://cs5.org/?p=359. Being an Flash/Flex developer myself, this is an interesting concept. IF adobe is able to pull this off, then will we need flash on the iPad/iPhone? The other question is if Adobe release such a feature, what will happen if apple starts to include flash; will this feature just die? I say no....porting your flash applications over to iPhone/iPad will be a great alternative...opening up the app store even more!!

Another item I am a little iffy about is apple making their own processors, again. For the portable devices, fine, but they need to stick with Intel for their laptops and desktops.

1. It won't take long at all for HTML5 to catch on, as many serious web developers are already familiar with it. HTML 5 is a lot more streamlined than previous versions of the spec, and combined with good CSS and Javascript / AJAX chops, developers and web designers can build great Flash-like elements into their sites in no time. Besides, Flash usage on the Web is going DOWN, not up.

2. The ability of Flash CS5 to allow for iPhone app creation will only be relevant if the code that is produced is able to get through the App Store approval process. One of the many reasons an app is rejected is because of shoddy / buggy code. IF Adobe pulls this off I will start making apps in Flash immediately, since I'm familiar with Flash / ActionScript.

3. Apple is designing their own chips, NOT manufacturing them. Big difference.