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Steve Jobs at Paris

space/heat, not CPU

Originally posted by noneis
correct me if i am wrong, but could G5 powerbooks not utilize more ram then a G4?
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The main problem is finding space for 3 or 4 DIMM slots for the memory, and cooling the heat generated by them - not the processor's capability.

The G4 can easily handle 2 GiB of RAM, which would be 2 DIMMs at today's highest density. The 15" and 17" have 2 DIMM slots, but Apple is not offering the 1GiB DIMMs needed for 2 GiB.
 
Originally posted by CmdrLaForge
Like to add something here. I think we are waiting for:
1. New powerbooks with dual core G4
2. iMacs
3. iPod perphs
4. bluetooth stuff
5. iTMS Europe
6. New LCD in G5 design
7. GM Panther

Have I forgotten something ? Pls add.
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Ok my opinion of all rumoured products in the order of likeliness according to me:

--extremely likely--
Bluetooth mouse
Bluetooth keyboard
iTunes Europe. This is Paris, you know.
ibook G3 1Ghz (max 1.3Ghz)
Powerbook G4 1.33Ghz
Panther release date announced
New LCD in G5 design

--possible--
XServe G5
iPod perphs (Camera, audio record, bluetooth)
Panther Shipping
iMac G4 1.4Ghz (max 1.6Ghz) iMac says: "Give me a decent GPU"
HW: Graphics cards, HD, usb2.0 devices

--not gonna happen--
Powerbook G5
iTunes Windows
iChatAV for Windows

noneis
correct me if i am wrong, but could G5 powerbooks not utilize more ram then a G4? [/B]
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Well it is possible to attach a terrabyte to a G5 (current G5 = 8Gb max though) but just imagine the space required, power consumption and heat generated by 4GB ram in a notebook???
 
Re: You lose, big time!

Originally posted by AidenShaw
As I said, Stevie's speciality is "the big lie" !!!!!!!


I met your challenge, now what?
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I hear you and I sympathize, but in all honesty I don't think it really matters too much. It's just marketing crap, after all, and all companies fudge it a little when it comes to that. The important thing is that the Mac has to move to 64-bit eventually as memory usage starts to approach 4 GB and beyond, and it is a good thing that we have such a seamless transition due to the 970 chip. So much the better that we have it now, rather than when the majority of users are already hitting the 4GB wall.
 
So if Apple went to IBM and said "we're in trouble with our PowerBooks, Moto can't deliver the 7457", what do you think would happen?

Apple announces the 1.2GHz G3 iBook.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: tower vs laptop sales

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
People are mentioning that the low end G5 doesn't put out that much heat however has anyone considered the support chips?
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The lack of L3 cache in a G5 system may reduce power consumption and counter the increased power consumption of the system controller. The RAM stays the same, so no difference there. Furthermore, PC manufacturers are making fast-bus laptops today with reasonable battery life--if they can do it, so can Apple.



Originally posted by merges
2) If the PowerBook line went G5, where would the iBooks be? They are still using G3s, and I wouldn't expect that their low MHz numbers and non-Velocity Engine G3 would be very popular. Especially compared to the education desktop, eMac, which would still be a G4.
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No kidding. The iBooks are extremely long in the the tooth. The obvious answer to your concern is that the current G4 powerbooks (or a 7457 revision thereof) will become the new iBook line, when the G5 powerbooks are released. This will finally put the G4 laptops at the proper price point.

Originally posted by merges
3) Along the same lines, iMac would still be a G4, but cost about the same as an insanely great portable with a faster G5. iMac sales would probably suffer hugely, along with iBook sales.
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Then perhaps the correct answer to this is to reduce iMac prices as well to bring them more in line with other computers with similar performance.
 
Originally posted by fpnc
Therefore, a G4 (rumored MPC7457-based PowerBook) running at 1.33GHz could be about as good as we can expect (or should expect). So, a best-case G4 might still outperform any G5-based PowerBook that Apple could produce (for the time being, this could change early next year).
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No, it won't. Don't have so much faith in benchmarks, they can be very misleading. Benchmarks that test only the CPU (either artificially or through a single specialized app function) blind you to the fact that the processor on a slow bus is usually sitting around idle starving for data. The fast bus on the G5 will make it much faster in real-world, multi-app, hi-power usage.
 
soggywulf,

i never claimed nor implied that g5 pb is impossible. i said it would be hard to put enough memory slots (more than 2) to make it reasonable (less than $1000) to install more than a 1 gb.

read my posts. i never said g5 pb can't be made at this point. i never even implied it.
 
Re: You can already buy 64-bit notebooks

Originally posted by AidenShaw
"No Brain" is right - Tadpole has been shipping 64-bit Alpha and SPARC notebook systems for many years.

Go to their website (http://www.tadpolecomputer.com/exec.php?p=prod-note) and pick up a 64-bit UltraSPARC with 4GiB of RAM - today.

Jobs won't be honest if he claims "first" 64-bit notebook, but then honesty isn't exactly a foundation of a Stevenote. The RDF and all, you know....
Click to expand...

Oy. 🙂 Jobs said the "first 64-bit personal computer", and he would say "the worlds first consumer 64-bit laptop" or the like. Anything released before, such as the link above, are not in the consumer space.
 
Re: You lose, big time!

Originally posted by AidenShaw
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2003/jun/23pmg5.html

...featuring the world’s first 64-bit desktop processor...


As I said, Stevie's speciality is "the big lie" !!!!!!!


I met your challenge, now what?
Click to expand...

No, you didn't. It _is_ the worlds first 64-bit desktop processor. It's also the world's first 64-bit personal computer. They're using desktop and personal as synonyms here... obviously a gray area. However, "desktop processor" is right, and "personal computer" is also right. "desktop computer" would NOT be right.

It's all about symantics in marketing. I'm no fan of the word game, but Jobs never lied. If you believe it was meant to be misleading... OF COURSE it was! It's marketing, my friend! 🙂
 
And he lied....

Originally posted by Frobozz
Jobs said the "first 64-bit personal computer"
Click to expand...

Windows NT and Windows 2000 ran on Digital/Compaq 64-bit Alpha personal computers. It ran Microsoft Office (some native Alpha code, some through translation), QuickTime player, and most "personal computer" applications like Photoshop

Tell me that this isn't a 64-bit personal computer:

multia2.gif
 
this discussion about 64 bit desktop business is all silly. who really cares?

you can load Windows to run on Alpha. do you find dells and HPs shipping Alpha's with Windows?

for most consumers, they probably won't even know any processors other than intel anyway.

g5 PM is the first, afaik, 64-bit desktop machine you can buy from a widely available vendor, pre-loaded with all consumer programs. it works out of the box.

so if the "lie" works for most of the target, then it's a "lie" but it's also marketing.
 
MY 2 Cents

Pardon me for re-stating something someone else may have said already... but I didn't read every post here.... basically the thing that strikes me about the powerbook situation is.. With the announcement of the new G5 processor Apple had to figure that sales of the aging G4 powwerbooks would come to a screeching halt..... I mean why invest $3000 dollars in a laptop with a processor that has reached the end of the line.. unless of course you need it now... How hard is it to develop the powerbook and tower at the same time when they were working on the G5...... couldn't they have been working on both .... and then release them seperately.... I guess the question is what is the lifespan of the G4 powerbook... maybe 6months..... I just think its quite possible they will hold off and release the G5 no upgrades to the exsisting g4... who knows... and please.. are we supposed to take apples word that there won't be a G5 anytime soon???? come on they are in the buisness of selling computers... they arent going to kill sales of their exsisting powerbooks, just so they can be stand up guys..

just my thoughts
 
maybe, just maybe they were waiting for Paris to just screw IDG by releasing updates for everything, announce panther shipping, new keyboards and mice, and an iPod recording device😀
when as the last time a product was updated by apple?

it is a possibility🙂
 
Re: MY 2 Cents

Originally posted by Sratner
With the announcement of the new G5 processor Apple had to figure that sales of the aging G4 powwerbooks would come to a screeching halt.....
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I think you are looking at it from the wrong perspective. The G5 is introduced because PowerMacs were coming to a screeching halt. Apple sales show that even with 'slow' G3 & G4 procs, still nearly half of the sales are notebooks. The sales that are really going to halt, because of the G5, are that of the iMac. It seriously needs minimum specs of:

iMac 17"
any 1.6Ghz+ proc
512mb 333DDR
nVidia FX5200/radeon 9000
200mhz bus

I just had another interesting idea... What if Apple is going to put a crusoe processor in the powerbook. Just dump G3, G4, altivec & G5 altogether.
 
Originally posted by isgoed
Ok my opinion of all rumoured products in the order of likeliness according to me:

--extremely likely--
Bluetooth mouse
Bluetooth keyboard
iTunes Europe. This is Paris, you know.
ibook G3 1Ghz (max 1.3Ghz)
Powerbook G4 1.33Ghz
Panther release date announced
New LCD in G5 design

--possible--
XServe G5
iPod perphs (Camera, audio record, bluetooth)
Panther Shipping
iMac G4 1.4Ghz (max 1.6Ghz) iMac says: "Give me a decent GPU"
HW: Graphics cards, HD, usb2.0 devices

--not gonna happen--
Powerbook G5
iTunes Windows
iChatAV for Windows



Well it is possible to attach a terrabyte to a G5 (current G5 = 8Gb max though) but just imagine the space required, power consumption and heat generated by 4GB ram in a notebook???
Click to expand...

Well, I don't completly agree to your assumptions.
I don't see the iBook update at Paris.
 
So, in summary of this thread, It's be possible to put a G5 in notebook, but the old hands are going to be mightily suprised if Apple actually do?

A few weeks ago it was all "there'll never be a G5 laptop this soon". Have a lot of people have changed their minds very quickly, or have the pre-Steve excitables come out of hiding in time for the show?

For those of us trying to decide what to do with our hard earned, having hoped to be a switcher with a lovely new PowerBook, it's all a little perplexing. After all, I now can't buy a PowerBook until they've got a G5 in them, and, odds on, that won't be this update. Which means not until at least February next year? (I'm trying to think actual shipping dates, not announcements).

So, hold on until Paris, if there is no news then get myself a Windows tower to tide me over (no one can possibly argue there is a value-for-money Apple desktop for those of us used to PC prices and willing to pay that bit more for reliability and style).

That'd also give me a chace to see whether Apple do anything to further infuriate the decreasing developer community, or MS do something to mean the internet is the exculsive territory of Windows. After all, it might be terrible that MS can dominate the web so sites only work on IE (which, remember, is no longer developed on Mac) but that's not going to stop me wanting to look at those pages...

You know, before I read this forum I though I was a 100% cert switcher. Now I'm increasingly worried that I'd be an idiot if I did. These, now, are the only circumstances under which I'll switch:
- PowerBook 15" Airport/Bluetooth etc. G4 is a lot cheaper than Apple usually manage
- PowerBook G5 comes out.

Othrwise the money'll go to a bish-bosh box company for another wintel machine, and I'll give Apple a last chance with the notebook. Can't say fairier than that?
 
Originally posted by lord_flash
For those of us trying to decide what to do with our hard earned, having hoped to be a switcher with a lovely new PowerBook, it's all a little perplexing. After all, I now can't buy a PowerBook until they've got a G5 in them, and, odds on, that won't be this update. Which means not until at least February next year? (I'm trying to think actual shipping dates, not announcements).

So, hold on until Paris, if there is no news then get myself a Windows tower to tide me over (no one can possibly argue there is a value-for-money Apple desktop for those of us used to PC prices and willing to pay that bit more for reliability and style).

...

You know, before I read this forum I though I was a 100% cert switcher. Now I'm increasingly worried that I'd be an idiot if I did. These, now, are the only circumstances under which I'll switch:
- PowerBook 15" Airport/Bluetooth etc. G4 is a lot cheaper than Apple usually manage
- PowerBook G5 comes out.

Othrwise the money'll go to a bish-bosh box company for another wintel machine, and I'll give Apple a last chance with the notebook. Can't say fairier than that?
Click to expand...

by the time g5 pb comes out, there'll be even faster g5's and just maybe (though doubtful), g6 specs, coming out. will you then claim that g5 pb would be obsolete and wait again?

what exactly do you need the g5 pb for that g4 pb is inadequate to handle but "cheaper PC box" is adequate enough to hold you over?

sorry to sound a bit cynical and i certainly don't want to tell you how to spend your money, but you might be waiting for quite a while, i'm afraid...

some will probably regard your post as a troll simply because we've heard many proclamation of "unless apple does this, i'm gonna go get a pc" and are rather tired of it. if you want a mac and are serious about it, pc's are usually out of the consideration. (on your profile, it says you have an emac already... that won't hold you over until g5 pb but a cheap pc box will?)
 
Originally posted by jxyama
by the time g5 pb comes out, there'll be even faster g5's and just maybe (though doubtful), g6 specs, coming out. will you then claim that g5 pb would be obsolete and wait again?

what exactly do you need the g5 pb for that g4 pb is inadequate to handle but "cheaper PC box" is adequate enough to hold you over?

sorry to sound a bit cynical and i certainly don't want to tell you how to spend your money, but you might be waiting for quite a while, i'm afraid...
Click to expand...

Well a 'cheap' windows box ($1000 sans monitor, I reckon) will serve to pick up mail, etc. (and probably, in fairness, edit video and run Photoshop etc.). If I get a laptop I want it to be able to burn DVDs, edit short vids etc. anywhere, but mostly just Photoshop and mail etc.

You're right to be cynical. I want a PowerBook beccause they look the part, and it's a shame not to get a new model. I don't need it. I could make do for ages with a good desktop and my aging Vaio ultra-portable with a new battery. Or just a windows portable and my external DVD-R.

But then I wouldn't be a switcher, and I do have a residual loathing of Microsoft, not helped by the fact that my laptop (which is my only machine) seems to have an accelerated death following the spread of these latest worms. I use a Mac during the day too - I know that it'd make a lot of tasks easier. I want one. I just don't want to be a chump.
 
Originally posted by noneis
correct me if i am wrong, but could G5 powerbooks not utilize more ram then a G4?
Click to expand...

I doubt whether a G5 PowerBook would support more than 4GB of DRAM (initially), so there is no reason why a G5-based PowerBook would "utilize more ram" than a G4-based model.
 
Re: sweeet

Originally posted by Java
Yes, a G5 cube! Hehe😛
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I'd love to see a G5 cube if it could be done. I loved the original -- but not enough to buy one (*guilt*). I think it would be an interesting companion to the PowerMac: small and sleek as opposed to the USS POWERMAC G5 aircraft carrier. Problem is, I think that they couldn't get away with the convection cooling system. Oh, well.

(OS X is Steve's genome! Now that's a Mac rumor worthy of the Weekly World News.)
 
Originally posted by jxyama
by the time g5 pb comes out, there'll be even faster g5's and just maybe (though doubtful), g6 specs, coming out. will you then claim that g5 pb would be obsolete and wait again?
Click to expand...

The idea is that we are hoping Apple will release the G5 powerbook soon, before it is in fact obsolete. By obsolete, I mean overpriced. Nothing is obsolete, at the right price.
 
Originally posted by jxyama
by the time g5 pb comes out, there'll be even faster g5's and just maybe (though doubtful), g6 specs, coming out. will you then claim that g5 pb would be obsolete and wait again?

what exactly do you need the g5 pb for that g4 pb is inadequate to handle but "cheaper PC box" is adequate enough to hold you over?

sorry to sound a bit cynical and i certainly don't want to tell you how to spend your money, but you might be waiting for quite a while, i'm afraid...

some will probably regard your post as a troll simply because we've heard many proclamation of "unless apple does this, i'm gonna go get a pc" and are rather tired of it. if you want a mac and are serious about it, pc's are usually out of the consideration. (on your profile, it says you have an emac already... that won't hold you over until g5 pb but a cheap pc box will?)
Click to expand...

Hey, I'm with Soggywolf and Lord Flash on this one. With the introduction of the G5, you can be sure that the OS and other software applications will begin to move to native 64-bit code and what then of your "good-value" speed-bumped G4? Do you really think it's wise to spend $2500 on a laptop now that is running on stale hardware specs and won't be able to take advantage of 64-bit optimized software? Hell, Adobe have already released a G5 plug-in for photoshop that supposedly makes it SCREAM and guess what? You can't get it for PBs BECAUSE THEY RUN ON G4s!!!

Technology always improves blah blah blah but are seriously telling me that $2500 on a G4 laptop now is as good as $2500 on a G5 laptop in January (or September 😀)? No way - I'll tell you the difference. That G5 laptop should last me 3 or so years (like a $2500 laptop should). That G4, in less than a year's time, is going to be one of the more popular mac items on ebay.
 
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