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Steve Jobs at Paris

you know, if every person complaining in these threads about the lack of a new powerbook were actually going to _purchase_ said powerbook, then Apple would be in the black in no time. Instead, there is a constant "whining" noise being made by multiple folks who _want_ a new powerbook, but when they emerge (and they will, sometime) they'll say "i'm gonna wait for revB" or "well, I didn't think they'd be that much $$" or "it doesn't run at 14 Ghz."

If you're gonna buy one, and have put off the purchase for a while, I can completely comiserate. If you're just complaining to complain, do it elsewhere.

I'd like to see them. I have my own opinion as to what I think they'll be able to do, and how fast they'll go. But I'm not gonna buy one. And chances are, a good number of the whiners aren't going to either.

Sorry about that - just not in a very good mood about this...
 
Originally posted by jxyama


regardless, as i wrote before, i don't think there's much incentive for apple to let a g5 pb eat into the sales of g5 PM. just not yet. if apple were to dumb down the g5 in PB so it won't compete against the PM, then is there still a point to using g5 in a PB to begin with?
Click to expand...

Yes there is. Having a G5 PB, even if it were only 1.2GHz, would still spark the Gollum factor. "We mussst have it!! Ours it iss." You get the picture. It would also allow for there to be G4 upgrades to the iBook line.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: tower vs laptop sales

Originally posted by reedm007
In order for Apple to be able to ship a G5 in a PowerBook today, I believe they would have had to be designing this essentially for the past year. Given the fact that these powerBooks came out in January, I'm just not sure that's the case. We're talking a complete overhaul internally, and that takes time, research, and money.
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Apple has known about the 970 for more than a year. I think that should enough time to design a laptop based on it.

Originally posted by jxyama
one of the greatest power of 64 bit g5 is the fact it can address more memory. all i'm saying is, why release a product into a market where one of the best feature of it can't be taken advantage of in reasonable terms?
Click to expand...

Because it is a lot faster. The main benefit of the G5 at this point is speed, not amount of memory. Everyone can use speed. How many people use >4GB of RAM today? When 2GB DIMMs are sold for cheap, you can put them in your exising G5 laptop. Your statement is not a good reason to hold back the G5 powerbook; nor does your statement present any technical difficulties with desgining or building a G5 laptop, as you were implying in your earlier posts.
 
Re: Keep the faith...

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Well the question is has Jobs done the Apple Expo in Paris in the past? If no I would say this is a PowerBook 15" release.

I'm betting that he wanted to announce the 15" at WWDC but Moto screwed up once again. This could be the makeup presentation. As for G5. Heh I wish. Honestly my money is on next spring. This isn’t about being embarrassed or not. This is to get to any school kids holding out and for the X-mas season. As much as I want a G5 to show up; unless Apple has been working on it in parallel with the Power Mac it ain’t going to be ready. I think even Jobs knows at this point they can’t afford to mess up any products they release. Releasing a G5 at this point would probably end up being a rush job and would probably end up being a disaster. Laptop designs aren’t created overnight and certainly they aren’t created from the ground up, like a G5 would be, in 4 months.
The updated G4s are going to be a stop gap to hold people over until a G5 can be released.

Of course my mileage will very with speculation. *shrugs* I’ll leave a bit of hope. But there isn’t much.

PS- We are forgetting the ultimate reason they can’t release a G5 PowerBook. I don’t have the 3 grand I need to get it yet. 😀 By March I should be good. March will definitely be the release date. 😀 😉
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure they have been developing a G5 PB in tandem with the PM. I am no engieneer, but it seems pretty obvious that PBs come with their own special design issues. However, none of us can really know what they are and when they will have solved them. It is not outside the realm of possibility that they have prototype G5 PBs already. I'm betting also that they must announce something by September; I mean, how could Steve get up there and not announce something about the PBs? I agree they wouldn't announce something that was not ready, but who can say they aren't?

Let's just consider this: we all agree that the reason we havn't seen the PB updates is because of Moto. So, if this is a problem (and we don't know just how bad a problem it is btw.) they would have been forced to consider the possibility of having no choice but to release a PB G5. What if Moto can't supply any chips? Apple would be in serious trouble and would be pressuring IBM for possible solutions. I think a G5 PB announcement may be the only option Apple has; and this is why the big wait. Either way, I will be plunking down my three grand no matter what they come out with. I need a laptop bad!
 
Re: It'll still be a lie if Apple claims "first 64-bit laptops"

Originally posted by AidenShaw
Apple won't bother with subtle wordsmithing - they'll go with the "big lie". They did it with the Power Mac G5, why not expect Stevie to lie about a PPC970 'book?

The Lord God Jobs claimed that the Power Mac G5 was the "first 64-bit desktop", when in fact Digital and Sun and HP had been shipping far smaller 64-bit systems for nearly a decade.
Click to expand...

Well, I believe you are wrong. 🙂 I was at the WWDC keynote and Steve Jobs called it the "world's first 64-bit personal computer". And that's the same as what's on the website at: www.apple.com/powermac

You see -- it's not a lie at all. It *is* the world's first 64-bit PERSONAL computer, with personal being the operative word in that sentence. In fact, they never mention the word desktop... I challenge you to find anything from Apple that says that it is the "first 64-bit desktop"!
 
Ever since discovering the joy that are Steve Jobs Keynote speeches about two years ago I become irrationally excited upon hearing that another one is forthcoming.

Unfortunately, now that I'm working it's not as possible to go to the Apple Store to watch them which is really the best way 'cause of the people cheering and stuff. *Sigh* streaming video from now on for me.
 
Originally posted by Mudbug
you know, if every person complaining in these threads about the lack of a new powerbook were actually going to _purchase_ said powerbook, then Apple would be in the black in no time. Instead, there is a constant "whining" noise being made by multiple folks who _want_ a new powerbook, but when they emerge (and they will, sometime) they'll say "i'm gonna wait for revB" or "well, I didn't think they'd be that much $$" or "it doesn't run at 14 Ghz."

If you're gonna buy one, and have put off the purchase for a while, I can completely comiserate. If you're just complaining to complain, do it elsewhere.

I'd like to see them. I have my own opinion as to what I think they'll be able to do, and how fast they'll go. But I'm not gonna buy one. And chances are, a good number of the whiners aren't going to either.

Sorry about that - just not in a very good mood about this...
Click to expand...

The wad in my pocket is hurting my ass! I have a tingly feeling in my foot too.
 
Originally posted by Mudbug
you know, if every person complaining in these threads about the lack of a new powerbook were actually going to _purchase_ said powerbook, then Apple would be in the black in no time. Instead, there is a constant "whining" noise being made by multiple folks who _want_ a new powerbook, but when they emerge (and they will, sometime) they'll say "i'm gonna wait for revB" or "well, I didn't think they'd be that much $$" or "it doesn't run at 14 Ghz."

If you're gonna buy one, and have put off the purchase for a while, I can completely comiserate. If you're just complaining to complain, do it elsewhere.

I'd like to see them. I have my own opinion as to what I think they'll be able to do, and how fast they'll go. But I'm not gonna buy one. And chances are, a good number of the whiners aren't going to either.

Sorry about that - just not in a very good mood about this...
Click to expand...
Oh don't you worry - I'm buying!
 
Re: You lose, big time!

Originally posted by AidenShaw
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2003/jun/23pmg5.html

...featuring the world’s first 64-bit desktop processor...


As I said, Stevie's speciality is "the big lie" !!!!!!!


I met your challenge, now what?
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heh. Good call 🙂 Now what? I dunno. Wanna go get coffee or something? It's on me... 😉

Oh no no wait, I need to further this very useful debate.😉 So what is the definition of a "desktop computer"? If you visit Sun or HP's website, their 64-bit machines fall under their "server" category on their site, not "desktop"... So maybe desktop computers are equated to personal computers?

Yeah, fight that! Huh? Huh? What you got on that, man?? (by the way, this is all joking -- you caught me fair and sqaure 🙂 )
 
Re: You lose, big time!

Originally posted by AidenShaw
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2003/jun/23pmg5.html

...featuring the world’s first 64-bit desktop processor...


As I said, Stevie's speciality is "the big lie" !!!!!!!


I met your challenge, now what?
Click to expand...

And your claim is what, that an SGI Octane2 is a desktop machine? Please, this has been hashed out 10000 times. It's all marketing and semantics, ok? There are four main categories of computers now: Portable, "desktop", Workstation, and Server. Yeah, I'm leaving out mainframes and supercomputers, sue me. The real question is whether Apple's claim that the G5 is a "desktop" is true or whether the G5 is more accurately called a workstation. Price is a touch high for a desktop (it IS an apple after all), low for a workstation, and with no real pro cards available for it yet, I'd say the G5 is not really in the same class as a Sun or an SGI.
 
no biggy

Originally posted by reedm007
heh. Good call 🙂 Now what?
Click to expand...

No biggy - just my point that Apple often does subtle wordsmithing - what they say seems to be incorrect, but if you very carefully analyze the words it isn't exactly a lie.

The Power Mac G5 announcement, though, isn't so clear. Neither the claims of "first" or "fastest" seem to be bullet-proof....

But where this started, though, was to point out that 64-bit laptops have been on sale for nearly 10 years. Maybe not the smallest, the lightest, or the best battery life - but you can buy them today.

Will Apple flat out lie and claim that a PPC970 in a PowerBook is the first 64-bit laptop? You and I both know that the answer is probably yes....
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: tower vs laptop sales

Originally posted by soggywulf
It won't be as fast as the powermacs. We're talking 1.2 GHz, 500-600 MHz bus, slower graphics hardware, less RAM capacity, and of course less expandability. These are definitely separate markets, as pointed out by Mac User Canada.
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Don't forget anywhere from 4200,5400, or now just starting to show up 7200 RPM hard drives vs. Serial ATA drives.
Anyone who expects G5 based laptops to = G5 based desktops is going to be in for a rude awakening.
People are mentioning that the low end G5 doesn't put out that much heat however has anyone considered the support chips? You get your system bus high enough you will end up with some serious additional heat output from the surrounding hardware and not just the CPU. Laptop design has always been a delicate balancing game between power usage, heat, performance, size, weight, and other various factors. Apple seems to do a good job with this balancing act. When they do release a G5 laptop you ARE going to see power but also good battery life while keeping it lightweight.
 
displays?

now that the g5's will be hitting stores, seems like the natch thing to update is the display form factor. the clear/white/chrome apple studio/cinema display casing is totally g4.

plus, showing off a flash new piece of furniture (which is really all the monitor is, in terms of its casing, let's face it) will give jobs a chance to bask in the oohing and aahing of an admiring crowd, like old man earl at the GM motorama's back in the 50's.

does anyone have an opinion on the likelihood of seeing that rumored 32" lcd display come to fruition anytime soon? what better time than now/paris? they'll update the displays before anything else - apple needs to sell a complete, nice looking system: yesterday's plastic monitor and tomorrow's mesh-metal cpu box don't look right together, and that should be everyone's first hint -- after all, since the imac debut and the blue g3's, aesthetics have been a big part of apple's "rolls royce marketing strategy"...

something as big as a 32" monitor will also comport with the gargantuan case of the new g5's, which apparently are too large even to rack-mount...

just my 2 bits...
 
I have to agree with the no-G5-PowerBook folks here.

While there may be technical advantages to such a product, and while Apple *may* be capable of creating a PowerPC G5-based PowerBook, think about this:

1) The 12" PowerBook G4 and 17" PowerBook G4 have never been revised. That's a lot of money to spend on engineering two products that would likely have to be completely redesigned (case and all, no doubt, to account for heat issues)...

2) If the PowerBook line went G5, where would the iBooks be? They are still using G3s, and I wouldn't expect that their low MHz numbers and non-Velocity Engine G3 would be very popular. Especially compared to the education desktop, eMac, which would still be a G4.

3) Along the same lines, iMac would still be a G4, but cost about the same as an insanely great portable with a faster G5. iMac sales would probably suffer hugely, along with iBook sales.

Product-grid-wise, a G5 PowerBook doesn't make sense right now. It would cannibalize sales of other products.

Another point to consider from a design perspective: Would Apple release a major new product, like PowerBook G5, without a huge product redesign as well? As in, "just a G5 version" of the existing PowerBook (Aluminium case for the 15" notwithstanding)? I somehow think not. And I certainly don't think that it's very Apple to invest heavily in product designs like the 12" and 17", only to ditch them just over half a year later.

My money is on faster G4 PowerBooks, with improved graphics, and a new 15" PowerBook G4 in the style of the 12" and 17" models. Which, despite not using the PowerPC G5, will still be *amazing* versus the hordes of awful Windows XP-sporting laptops out there, and by far the most useful and usable laptops on the market.

Let's face it, a 15" PowerBook G4 with Mac OS X (especially Panther) blows the pants off almost any Wintel laptop in terms of overall quality and experience. Nothing beats Apple's OS, apps, and elegant hardware combo.
 
Originally posted by merges
I have to agree with the no-G5-PowerBook folks here.

While there may be technical advantages to such a product, and while Apple *may* be capable of creating a PowerPC G5-based PowerBook, think about this:

1) The 12" PowerBook G4 and 17" PowerBook G4 have never been revised. That's a lot of money to spend on engineering two products that would likely have to be completely redesigned (case and all, no doubt, to account for heat issues)...

2) If the PowerBook line went G5, where would the iBooks be? They are still using G3s, and I wouldn't expect that their low MHz numbers and non-Velocity Engine G3 would be very popular. Especially compared to the education desktop, eMac, which would still be a G4.

3) Along the same lines, iMac would still be a G4, but cost about the same as an insanely great portable with a faster G5. iMac sales would probably suffer hugely, along with iBook sales.
Click to expand...

You've got to be kidding me, thats really not thinking very far. LOOK at the 12" PowerMac. Its begs to be called an iBook. Look at the selection of ports. Look at the speeds. They could use the same board in both a 12" and 14" iBook and announce the G4 iBooks with ease.

G4 iMacs? No one will complain, because there are G4 iBooks. Duuhhhhhhh

Not everything needs to be a G5. The R&D spent developing the latest powerbooks is not lost if they immediately jump to a G5 powerbook. Don't try to fool yourself on that.
 
Originally posted by Steven1621
hmm...if steve jobs is venturing across the ocean to give the keynote this would certainly lead me to believe that something big will be coming. it might be safe to say that we can expect our powerbooks at this time after months of waiting.
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Not necessarily. He'll probably
- do his Panther speech again
- introduce the iApps upgrades.

Nevertheless I'm also hoping he'll introduce the new PB's 🙄

TJ.
 
i'm not going to give any speculation since there seemed to be enough of it already. but think about this, most of the speculations here has been based on the idea that what apple's doing inside closed doors conforms with the time they announce new products. but for a corporation as big as apple, they might alreadyahve the next decade or two planned out or at least outlined. (roadmap)

how long have they been working on the G5 before it was released? and when did we start hearing anything about it? they might already have a G5 powerbook since january and the new casings have also been designed to accomodate the new chips, who knows. and i think they should have many many teams working on many different things all at once. apple is a huge corporation and i don't think they would have only one team working on everything one by one.

why don't we all sit back and relax and wait for the day. 🙂



note: the 12" PB is technically a face lifted iBook. i don't think it takes them very long to design that particular machine. so that leaves them the 17" to design from the ground up.
 
Originally posted by areyouwishing
What I want to see... in order.

1. New Powerbooks
2. Panther Shipping
3. iPod Perphs (recording)
4. Bluetooth Keyboard/Mouse
5. iTunes Music Store in Euro and for windows
6. Studio MX 2004 Previewed
7. InDesign 3.0 PS 8.0 Ill 11.0 Previewed

*edit: Forgot about the adobe prods
Click to expand...

Like to add something here. I think we are waiting for:
1. New powerbooks with dual core G4
2. iMacs
3. iPod perphs
4. bluetooth stuff
5. iTMS Europe
6. New LCD in G5 design
7. GM Panther

Have I forgotten something ? Pls add.
 
i think we will see updates to the 15"(possibly a g5), and the wireless mice and keyboard in paris.

apple would have killed desktop sales if they had come out and said that "powerbooks with a g5 are here in 2 months", a lot of people would have waited.

motorola isnt going anywhere because apple will still use the g4 in their lower end machines.

due to the shortage of the current models, its not like most of us could go out and get one before the paris expo with the 4-6 week wait right now.

did anyone else find it real strange that apple did not simply update the 15" back when they did the 12" and 17", with at least the aluminum enclosure, and the backlit keyboard (would have sold a ton of those, it seems to say they were working on somthing new and better for the 15" way back then)

this is the year of the notebook, and so far we havent seen anything to make it that. if i am wrong, then apple has made its biggest mistake since stevie wonder took ahold of the reigns again.
 
Re: You can already buy 64-bit notebooks

Originally posted by AidenShaw
"No Brain" is right - Tadpole has been shipping 64-bit Alpha and SPARC notebook systems for many years.
Click to expand...

First, whether what you say is true or not is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to my point, which was Steve wants to say it. I made no comment about the veracity of the statement.

Secondly, in the mass-market "PC"-class machine it is a pretty accurate statement: *Intel* running Windows, not SPARC, Transmeta, or Alpha etc are the machines that Apple compares itself too. Those are the machines that IBM, Dell, Gateway etc all sell a majority of.

So, whether it is strictly accurate to say the "first 64 bit portable", they will say it. Just look at the PM G5, in that class (mass-market, desktop, Intel-based, Windows machines), it is a pretty accurate statement. And besides, as we've learned before when you say "It is the first 64-bit portable with an 17 inch display," that can be perfectly true it just depends on the meaning of "is".
 
Everyone who is wishing for or expecting a G5 PowerBook should consider the fact that presently there is no guarantee that a G5 PowerBook running at 1.2GHz would be any faster than a well-designed G4 system running at either 1.25GHz or 1.33GHz (MPC7457). In fact, it's possible that for many tasks a G4 running at 1.33GHz would outperform a 1.2GHz G5 (IMO, without G5-optimized applications this might be a given). Most of the benchmarks I have seen suggest that the G5 is providing similar clock-per-clock performance as a G4. The only area where the G5 seems to provide a significant advantage over the G4 is in floating point operations (and, of course, advantages gained from pure cpu and memory clock speed improvements).

Therefore, a G4 (rumored MPC7457-based PowerBook) running at 1.33GHz could be about as good as we can expect (or should expect). So, a best-case G4 might still outperform any G5-based PowerBook that Apple could produce (for the time being, this could change early next year).

As for PowerBook introductions at the Paris Expo, yes, I think that is about the right timeframe (a suggestion that I made over ten days ago while many were still saying that it had to happen on Aug. 19).
 
Originally posted by fpnc
there is no guarantee that a G5 PowerBook running at 1.2GHz would be any faster than a well-designed G4 system running at either 1.25GHz or 1.33GHz
Click to expand...

correct me if i am wrong, but could G5 powerbooks not utilize more ram then a G4?
 
Originally posted by merges
The 12" PowerBook G4 and 17" PowerBook G4 have never been revised. That's a lot of money to spend on engineering two products that would likely have to be completely redesigned (case and all, no doubt, to account for heat issues)...
Click to expand...

is it not entirely possible that they "thought" ahead, and pre-deisgned tha basics of these models to be updated at some point?
 
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