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Steve Jobs Comments on Apple's Java Discontinuation

pmjoe said:
Sorry, but it is no accidental coincidence that Apple released a Java update that officially deprecated Java, and then proceeded to announce an App Store at the same time which would not allow deprecated APIs specifically naming Java.
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One does not need to proceed from the other.

1. Apple didn't want to continue maintaining their own JVM.

2. Considering Apple will no longer control the JVM, Apple doesn't want to sell products in the Mac App Store that will rely on third party runtimes that may break in the future.

Also, Apple may simply want only native Cocoa apps in the Mac App Store, for a cohesive experience like on iOS. It would not be necessary to deprecate the JVM to do this.
 
autrefois said:
Then again, if Apple can't even bother with updating their own OS X software properly/regularly, it's not surprising that they're abandoning Java.
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Really?

Major desktop OS releases over the last decade:

Windows
Feb 2000 - Windows 2000
Sep 2000 - Windows Me
Oct 2001 - Windows XP
Jan 2007 - Windows Vista
Oct 2009 - Windows 7

OS X
Sep 2000 - Kodiak (public beta)
Mar 2001 - OS X 10.0 Cheetah
Sep 2001 - OS X 10.1 Puma
Aug 2002 - OS X 10.2 Jaguar
Oct 2003 - OS X 10.3 Panther
Apr 2005 - OS X 10.4 Tiger
Oct 2007 - OS X 10.5 Leopard
Aug 2009 - OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard
 
pmjoe said:
Apple has made it clear that their Java will not be supported on OS X 10.7, which is due this coming summer. Why in the world would I invest in a Mac today for Java development, if I knew Apple's OS won't support it in ~8 months.
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Apple has done no such thing. They are not, at this point at least, allowing Java applications on the Mac App Store. They are not, however, stating that there will be no Java in Mac OS X 10.7. It will simply be provided by another vendor (Oracle).

jW
 
Mal said:
I find this whole thing hilarious. For years, I've been seeing posts about how it's disgusting that Apple can't keep up with the Java releases and how they shouldn't even be releasing Java updates themselves, and should let Sun/Oracle do it.
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You're assuming that all the people who were against Apple providing their own JVM are in fact the same people who are now upset that Apple will not be providing their own JVM.

I think you are doing this just so you can whine about whiners.

The people who are most concerned about this are Java developers who are not sure how much longer they will be able to use OS X for Java development. If you used your Mac for your job, and you enjoyed doing so, and suddenly were forced to switch to Windows, would you be happy about it?
 
Mal said:
Now they do just that, and they're getting flamed by people who can't even be bothered to consider that perhaps Apple knew they couldn't do Java right and that it'd be better on the Mac, not gone or lower quality, if Oracle takes over and does it. Make no mistake, Oracle will step in, and probably has already agreed to do so, but there will be no official announcement until they have the next version ready for the Mac.
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Why not? What could Oracle possibly gain from staying silent?
 
mags631 said:
Apple deprecated, not deleted, its version of Java. Also in the same release note, it notes that the Java control panel now indicates the JVM vendor. Hmmm.

Which one is more coincidental?
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I'm not sure what your point is. Deprecated means you should not use it any more, it is going away at some point. It also states support will only continue for Leopard and Snow Leopard - given Apple's track record, I would not assume there will even be a "Java Preferences" in 10.7.

Without an announcement from another vendor, it just sounds to me like Apple's Java team knew the writing was on the wall and are trying to cover all the bases.
 
Mal said:
Apple has done no such thing. They are not, at this point at least, allowing Java applications on the Mac App Store. They are not, however, stating that there will be no Java in Mac OS X 10.7. It will simply be provided by another vendor (Oracle).
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That hasn't exactly been said, either. 10.7 may in fact ship with the Apple JVM. That isn't yet known. It was only stated that it *may* be removed from future versions of OS X.
 
Mal said:
Apple has done no such thing. They are not, at this point at least, allowing Java applications on the Mac App Store. They are not, however, stating that there will be no Java in Mac OS X 10.7. It will simply be provided by another vendor (Oracle).
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Yes they have: "This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be maintained at the same level, and may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X. The Java runtime shipping in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, and Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, will continue to be supported and maintained through the standard support cycles of those products."

Apple clearly states that they only intend to support Java on 10.5 and 10.6, and that level of support will decrease.

In what fictional world has Oracle said they will support Java on OS X?
 
Mal said:
Apple has done no such thing. They are not, at this point at least, allowing Java applications on the Mac App Store. They are not, however, stating that there will be no Java in Mac OS X 10.7. It will simply be provided by another vendor (Oracle).
Click to expand...

What does you base this claim on? Do you have inside knowledge of what's happening at Oracle? Or what Apple and Oracle has agreed on?

Or are you just guessing?
 
torbjoern said:
Linux is actually not so bad. Believe me.
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Thumbs up!!! It's actually great. Very easy to transition coming from a Mac, a lot easier than from Windows. Used Macs since the days of System 6, but I'm moving to Linux as it seems Apple is more about iOS from now on than MacOS. Steve has said it when he rejoined Apple: "The Mac is dead, I will squeeze as much as possible and move to other things...". He did so sometime ago...

I still have an iMac G5 as my last Apple, which I will soon put to retirement, never gone MacIntel. I can buy Intel iron much more cheaply from elsewhere...
 
You can always compile JAVA (latest version) yourself, but there is some drawbacks. Without Apple support first noticeable thing is loosing Aqua GUI.
 
I'm really surprised at all the negativity this has garnered.

I think this is great news. I can't tell you how many times I have had to use a Java app online and it was written for the latest version of Java that Apple has not released yet. Let Oracle add it into the mix and release them all at once.

I'm sure Apple will not leave them high and dry and would assist them in the early stages of development.
 
Oracle just sued Google for brewing their own JVM. Do you really think they will have a problem with Apple wanting to go the other way?
 
It's for the better

The relationship between Sun and Apple wasn't all that great. But now that Oracle owns Java, and we all know how buddy buddy Ellison is with Jobs, things have changed for the better.
 
sizzlingbadger said:
I worked for Oracle for 10 years, they couldn't give a toss about apple. I see no reason why they would bother with Java for the Mac, where is their income ?

Larry buys expensive yachts he is motivated by income ;)
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More and more businesses are turning to OS X. now of course the bulk of it is still using windows, but you cannot just say OS X is a non-issue in enterprise.

The fact that iOS has been so successful is a big incentive for businesses to embrace OS X. Many companies (who shouldn't be in the app business anyway) get Macs just for developing App store or even in house apps.

Software like Lotus Notes and other "enterprise grade" (ha...) software depend on java, so it is a no-brainer for Oracle to bring java to OS X
 
KindredMAC said:
I can't tell you how many times I have had to use a Java app online and it was written for the latest version of Java that Apple has not released yet.
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Java SE 6 Update 22 from Oracle - released Oct 12, 2010
Java SE 6 Update 22 from Apple - released Oct 20, 2010
 
veggiedude said:
The relationship between Sun and Apple wasn't all that great. But now that Oracle owns Java, and we all know how buddy buddy Ellison is with Jobs, things have changed for the better.
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If find it rather unlikely that Oracle would spend money without seeing a return because of some personal relationship between the CEOs of the companies.
 
Unfortunately your personal experience of Java isn't real world. It blows your mind because you don't fully understand the implications for those who rely on Java should Oracle not pick Java on OSX up.

Java 1.6 will be long gone by ten years time, even 5 years time, JDK 1.6 will be dead and buried.


dcorban said:
I know this is the internet and all, but the level of drama here blows my mind.

Apple isn't forcing everyone to uninstall the current version of Java. Apple isn't deleting it from existence. The current version of Java will be available for years to come.

Based on my personal experience with Java app requirements, the current Java 1.6 should be sufficient for the next 10 years.
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The negativity surrounds the fact there has been no word from Oracle that they will be developing Java on OSX. Should that occur then people can breathe easily.

KindredMAC said:
I'm really surprised at all the negativity this has garnered.
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macsmurf said:
If find it rather unlikely that Oracle would spend money without seeing a return because of some personal relationship between the CEOs of the companies.
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The "deprecation" and subsequent rejection from the Mac App Store further discourages Oracle from investing in a Mac JVM.

Look it's crystal clear - OS X is not relevant in Enterprise and Steve is making Java irrelevant on the OS X Desktop. What would Oracle's justification be to write and maintain a JVM for Mac? It's not a trivial effort and for a company with history like Oracle it would be a very contradictory to think that they will do something solely based on moral or good-will grounds.
 
macsmurf said:
If find it rather unlikely that Oracle would spend money without seeing a return because of some personal relationship between the CEOs of the companies.
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There are no direct returns on JVM development. If Java doesn't exist on all major platforms, it hurts the brand and the claimed benefits of its virtual machine.
 
What I find funny is that there are people here saying that Microsoft Windows is now a better platform for coding Java.
But the fact is that Windows' version of the JRE is still to this day made by Oracle, so why should the Mac OS version be different?
Oracle has being reorganizing all Java project, in order to have a better control on its future as a platform. This isn't different.


Like I said on my previous post if Oracle weren't to build a SE JVM for Mac OS there would still be the OpenJDK or others JVM.
 
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