~25% of the world's total GDP. But, agreed it's becoming a less useful metric.
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Steve Jobs Comments on Apple's Java Discontinuation
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~25% of the world's total GDP. But, agreed it's becoming a less useful metric.
I was quite surprised to see how low C# is on that chart - after 10 years its penetration isn't really increasing at any speed. I was also amused by the sudden spike in Objective-C around the middle of 2009: I wonder what could have caused that
From my experience (working at a consulting firm with several hundred employees), that spike is thanks to Java Developers buying Macs. Java developers are often quite open-minded about alternative languages and frameworks and many think: "What the heck, why not test a bit of fart app coding".
So expect the Obj-C share to go down if the JVM-on-OSX-issue isn't resolved.
This is good news
This is good news. It just means the official releases of Java are within Oracle's hands, instead of Apple's. For those unaware, Oracle already supports Java on Solaris, Linux, and Windows with simultaneous releases on java.com. However, they don't currently have a release for OS X because Apple builds their own.
All this probably means is that Java will be released on the same schedule as all other platforms.
This is good news. It just means the official releases of Java are within Oracle's hands, instead of Apple's. For those unaware, Oracle already supports Java on Solaris, Linux, and Windows with simultaneous releases on java.com. However, they don't currently have a release for OS X because Apple builds their own.
All this probably means is that Java will be released on the same schedule as all other platforms.
And if Oracle chooses to never make an official release, this is good news because?
Unless Apple makes code available, it will take a year or more for another vendor to catch up with Apple's latest release.
Why don't you take a look at real world python usage to understand what you are talking about - it forms a core part of Google's infrastructure and also drives YouTube, which is quite a popular website.
Java is not going anywhere soon and even if it disappears from the Mac desktop that won't change. It is not like COBOL has disappeared and for want of any other comparison, Java is the current COBOL. Write once, run anywhere was the mantra from 10 years ago.
So, worst case, Apple shun the developers and some enterprise users of Macs. It is no major loss to Apple and in all likelihood another alternative will fill the gap one way or another - or look again at Python for comparison, there are plenty of other implementations of Python (or Ruby) for the Mac and the default versions of those are way behind the latest stable releases.
Apple built their own Java implementation because at the time Apple needed Java more than Sun needed Apple. Apple no longer really need Java and it is largely something not relevant to their market - home consumers. Apple will simply use, and dump, technology that helps them meet their needs at the time. As mentioned up-thread, I wonder what will be next ... maybe UNIX certification, who knows
BC2009 said:
I believe that is retail rather than total, i.e. excludes online purchases (like Dells) and is understandable given the investment Apple has made in its stores. Their comparative strength here illustrates their target market.
I'm surprised at the generally positive approach toward Apple's recent announcements at last time. Apple is about to have control over the user's system no one since mainframe-era IBM ever came close to.
Not only they're about to move desktops/laptops into the App Store's walled garden, they are showing they can drop support for major technologies like Java or Flash if they feel like it. This is not good news for anyone but Apple, certainly not anyone calling themselves "Hacker".
Not only they're about to move desktops/laptops into the App Store's walled garden, they are showing they can drop support for major technologies like Java or Flash if they feel like it. This is not good news for anyone but Apple, certainly not anyone calling themselves "Hacker".
About to... they are in the control of the hardware and OS now. The App Store will be the simplest way for users to buy, install and update apps. You will be able to install other applications outside of the App Store.
No. They are not dropping Java. They are deprecating the Apple JVM. Flash is not their product -- they are not obligated to distribute it. Adobe does that now.
Somehow, I don't think "hackers" are impacted one way or the other.
His concerns about Java support were valid. That's an adult discussion we can all have.
The whiny "I'm getting rid of OSX off my MBP and I'll never buy another Apple laptop" tantrum was anything but adult. That's what I called him out on, and he knows it. If someone is taking their marbles and going home, then go, but spare us the rest of the drama queen bit by dragging it out post after post after post.
So what are you, his big brother?
Write once, slow everywhere.
I hate it when the JVM sputters to a start on Mac OS X. The disk starts to grind, the machine slows down, all just to run some stupid plugin on a web site. If SproutCore and other HTML5 technologies are going to kill Flash, it's definitely time for them to kill Java too.
Yes, Java is a good beginners' programming language. Pointers are scary. But the 800 pound gorilla in the Java room is its JVM. It's the boat anchor that all those innocent little baby Java applets drag around. Fine for servers, terrible for clients.
I hate it when the JVM sputters to a start on Mac OS X. The disk starts to grind, the machine slows down, all just to run some stupid plugin on a web site. If SproutCore and other HTML5 technologies are going to kill Flash, it's definitely time for them to kill Java too.
Yes, Java is a good beginners' programming language. Pointers are scary. But the 800 pound gorilla in the Java room is its JVM. It's the boat anchor that all those innocent little baby Java applets drag around. Fine for servers, terrible for clients.
I believe the post you responded to with one of your childish "Why are you still here?" was "Accept that you can do your work just as well on Windows or Linux as you can on OS X".
If you call that a temper tantrum it means you're baiting for someone to call you out so you can call them names. That's not something I wish to participate in. Feel free, but I don't think it makes any sense for me to keep responding to you. It'll probably just fire you up even more.
Yep. One the other hand, this thread is mainly concerned with Java developers making software for servers with tools based on Java on OS X. Pretty excellent tools IMO.
This will kill the mac as developer platform
while it's very sad for me to say that as a unix specialist who loves osx and is using mac as his devel-platform since 2004, I saw this coming since os x 10.5. Apple seems to be abandoning all serious development on os x (iscsi, zfs, ntfs rw support etc) and concentrating on stuff that brings them serious money (itunes, ipod, iphone, ipad).
I don't think oracle will care about developing a mac port of java as they don't care about the mac as whole. They just don't see a business case there. The last version of their database they got ported to the mac is 10.something which is years old. And if they don't care about porting their flagship product to the mac, why they should care about porting java to it?. Steve, this is really not one of your most brilliant desitions!
while it's very sad for me to say that as a unix specialist who loves osx and is using mac as his devel-platform since 2004, I saw this coming since os x 10.5. Apple seems to be abandoning all serious development on os x (iscsi, zfs, ntfs rw support etc) and concentrating on stuff that brings them serious money (itunes, ipod, iphone, ipad).
I don't think oracle will care about developing a mac port of java as they don't care about the mac as whole. They just don't see a business case there. The last version of their database they got ported to the mac is 10.something which is years old. And if they don't care about porting their flagship product to the mac, why they should care about porting java to it?. Steve, this is really not one of your most brilliant desitions!
Lisp is #13 on the popularity list, Scheme #26.
See complete lists here.
I have to ask the question if including Java in the Core API is actually slowing down loading Mac OS X and its performance once in use. What makes me say this is because if there is a variant version of Snow Leopard without Java and its loaded on the MacBook Air and its loads faster (along with the assistance of SSD) and performance boost and battery longevity, I am all for giving the option to the end-user to install Java.
Apple is moving in the direction to streamline Mac OS X (x86) and iOS (ARM) development teams to focus on scalability to bring innovation to the end-user. Sure I did not like what the "Back-to-the-Mac" event had to show regarding Mac OS X Lion, however I have to ask if Apple is just trying to focus its efforts on open-source technologies and the future of Mac OS X and iOS.
Java and Flash have always been deactivated while browsing, and have not missed it since. My Mac runs cooler and loads webpages faster.
Webpage: http://wikis.sun.com/display/OpenJDK/BSDPort
One of the tutorial: Building the BSD port of OpenJDK, Java 1.7 on Max OS X 10.6.4
Also OpenJDK 1.6 is available via MacPorts.
One of the tutorial: Building the BSD port of OpenJDK, Java 1.7 on Max OS X 10.6.4
Also OpenJDK 1.6 is available via MacPorts.
What I find really disturbing in those discussions (Net wide, not only this one here) positive reactions to the fact that Apple have just dumped the whole part of Mac users community - that being Java developers - which were the early supporters of OS X, played the big part of it's success and last but not least formed a huge part of iOS development community.
Losing them may cost Apple - Apple fans too, especially them - much more that winning some "omg omg it's so tiny and shiny" types that will buy gaget or two and jump Apple's ship next time someone other than Apple making some flashy (sic) device. Developers tend to be much more devoted to the platform.
I am pretty sure that Steve and co. have made a calculated risk here, though. Developers and their apps were never much important to them. Sure, they were using it when possible and when needed, but they were never in to spotlight of Apple's marketing.
Losing them may cost Apple - Apple fans too, especially them - much more that winning some "omg omg it's so tiny and shiny" types that will buy gaget or two and jump Apple's ship next time someone other than Apple making some flashy (sic) device. Developers tend to be much more devoted to the platform.
I am pretty sure that Steve and co. have made a calculated risk here, though. Developers and their apps were never much important to them. Sure, they were using it when possible and when needed, but they were never in to spotlight of Apple's marketing.
It's like jumping from Photoshop CS 5 to X11 Gimp.
Better solution:
1. Go to Oracle site. Find VirtualBox for Mac, download it.
2. Go to Ubuntu site, download Ubuntu
3. Fire-up VirtualBox, install Ubuntu in it, install OpenJDK.
Works much faster and better than BSD port of OpenJDK natively.
But then again, there is step 4 that will backfire on Apple. Next time save some money from buying iGadget or new Mac and buy a computer that will run JDK without any kind of virtualisation.
Java SE 7 is already going to be released soon and I have a feeling that Apple realises that it doesn't have a dog show in hell in actually releasing it in a timely manner on Mac OS X and full support it too.
It comes back to rationalising it; who is getting the better end of the deal, who yields the most benefit with Java being maintained by Apple versus Oracle, and why shouldn't Oracle maintain something that they get the most benefit out of?
Oracle maintains 3 Java ports:
- Solaris, their own platform
- Windows, because of Microsoft's alleged Java license violations
- Linux, because no company owns it
All the rest negotiate a license and port themselves.
