Steve Jobs denies iP4 reception issues!

[Daveoc64]

QFT. Thank you sir or madam. I have been trying to explain this to people to no avail. While the iphone does have a problem, it can be fixed with firmware. The switching algorithim can be adjusted, or even the power through the antennae. Some hardware fails can be fixed with software.

Could the iphone have been designed better? Sure. The antennae should be behind the glass. Is the current problem unsolvable? No.

You simply cannot say this.

You don't have any evidence to say that the problem can be fixed - either with Software or Hardware.

It may be that the current design is always going to be flawed, or it could be that they release an update on Monday that completely fixes it.

 

[cloudberrybrew]

That has to be one of the best replies I have ever seen. Nearly fell to the floor with laughing so much.

I'm glad you like it so much <3

 

[jerry333]

This thread seems to have gotten out of hand. Here's what I've gathered from the experience with my iPhone 4 and reading most of these threads:

1. Some people, perhaps most but it's hard to tell from a forum because generally only the problems are reported, can touch the phone in one spot and have the signal drop.

2. Some people can touch the phone in one spot and have the signal stay the same.

This appears to be any or a combination of: body chemistry, signal strength, and manufacturing tolerances or process.

3. This behaviour happens to various degrees on every phone. It's probably more prevalent with the more feature-filled phones than it is with more basic phones. At least the number of complaints go up as the price of the phone increases.

4. Depending upon how an individual uses the phone it may or may not be a practical problem. I can force it to lose signal, but it's never dropped a call on it's own.

5. It's very likely that Apple knows about this and is working on it.

6. There are probably multiple ways to solve the problem so finding and implementing a solution needs to be more than a knee-jerk reation if it's not to end up a solution that's worse than the problem.

7. Apple has a history of making good when problems happen. Though sometimes it takes them longer than folks would like.

8. Apple also has a history of first run problems. If you don't want to experience them then don't buy from the first run. If you do buy from the first run, then you have to be prepared to possibly have a sub-optimal experience. Reporting any problems you find is good. Ranting about them and complaining about not having instant gratification after you post to MR is non-productive.

 

[cmaier]

let me copy and paste the area of interest from that PDF.

Contact with the antenna area may impair call quality and cause your device to operate at a higher power level than needed.

It also shows a Picture that shows where not to touch.

although not really a death touch from what it says, but it could disrupt the signal enough to drop a call depending on signal strength. It does seem as though that the phone compensates for the interference at a expense of battery life (from reading that page).



LMAO no i guess not, but if i was him i would RUN if it began to storm, or stick his head between his legs and consider him lightning fodder

Copy Nd paste allow want - it does not say touching one spot eliminates reception. It says blocking the antenna (and it shows the entire bottom of the phone, not one spot) interferes with reception. No duh. We all know every phone gets worse reception of you block the antenna. On the phone 4 you do not have to block the antenna. You just have to make physical contact with One specific part of it that is nearly impossible to avoid. The whole antenna can be clear but one mm of it, and many of us get zero reception.

 

[cloudberrybrew]

This thread seems to have gotten out of hand. Here's what I've gathered from the experience with my iPhone 4 and reading most of these threads:

1. Some people, perhaps most but it's hard to tell from a forum because generally only the problems are reported, can touch the phone in one spot and have the signal drop.

2. Some people can touch the phone in one spot and have the signal stay the same.

This appears to be any or a combination of: body chemistry, signal strength, and manufacturing tolerances or process.

3. This behaviour happens to various degrees on every phone. It's probably more prevalent with the more feature-filled phones than it is with more basic phones. At least the number of complaints go up as the price of the phone increases.

4. Depending upon how an individual uses the phone it may or may not be a practical problem. I can force it to lose signal, but it's never dropped a call on it's own.

5. It's very likely that Apple knows about this and is working on it.

6. There are probably multiple ways to solve the problem so finding and implementing a solution needs to be more than a knee-jerk reation if it's not to end up a solution that's worse than the problem.

7. Apple has a history of making good when problems happen. Though sometimes it takes them longer than folks would like.

8. Apple also has a history of first run problems. If you don't want to experience them then don't buy from the first run. If you do buy from the first run, then you have to be prepared to possibly have a sub-optimal experience. Reporting any problems you find is good. Ranting about them and complaining about not having instant gratification after you post to MR is non-productive.

aye as we talked about like 15 pages ago, this problem is similar to the random shutting down of macbooks some years back, calibration errors in the software, if this problem is the same but with switching signals / frequencies, then it should be fixed in any 4.0.1 update.

 

[spiritlevel]

we don't know, like right now... we don't know.

You might not know, but we do.

For most normal, rational people, it's very simple. When thousands of people are not able to make a phone call on their new, expensive phone, when holding it in the normal fashion (the same way the CEO of the company who made it holds it), means that there is certainly, without doubt, an issue.

 

[cmaier]

I must agree with you, somewhat on this point. But it also may be that there is nothing wrong. So far, the experiments have been quite lacking in rigorous science, and on the face of it seem rather biased. If you have been experiencing dropped calls with your iPhone 4, my sympathies... but a dropped call, and a bunch of dropped calls, and a bunch of people claiming dropped calls, with zero cell tower data, or at the very least eliminating the cell tower as a variable, doesn't mean something its defective.

As a phd in electrical engineering, i say that's not true. The science has been rigourous and compelling. Experiments are repeatable. The control group does not show the same behavior. It is repeatable across experimenter, across time, and across physical locale. Touching the phones in other locations on the same antenna does not show the effect, acting as another control. It has been videotaped for posterity. It's got everything a scientist looks for.

 

[brentsg]

As a phd in electrical engineering, i say that's not true. The science has been rigourous and compelling. Experiments are repeatable. The control group does not show the same behavior. It is repeatable across experimenter, across time, and across physical locale. Touching the phones in other locations on the same antenna does not show the effect, acting as another control. It has been videotaped for posterity. It's got everything a scientist looks for.

But the thing that even a phd in EE doesn't know, is what the software feedback loop looks like. Clearly there is -at least- an issue with what the phone interprets as signal strength, and it displays this on screen.

So beyond that, what else does the phone do with this data? What kind of corrective action is the phone taking to "shore up" the call? I don't know this either, but there is certainly a chance that the device could make bad decisions based on bad data, and this could cause packet loss and dropped calls.

 

[cmaier]

it will in areas of poor cell, just like where you are next to your microcell (I wonder... could there be something wrong with the microcell? Only one way to find out for sure... go find your nearest legitimate "cell site.")

You are ridiculous. It doesn't happen for my three older iPhones, or my nexus one. It happens not just at the microcell but in multiple other locations, some of which I have listed. And a microcell is a very strong signal, not a "poor cell". That's the point of a microcell.

And the phone goes from 5 bars to 0 when you touch it. By definition your theory that this is the same as what the incredible will do in poor cell areas is stupid - it HAS FIVE BARS UNTIL YOU TOUCH IT. it wouldn't start with five bars if the cell reception was bad. The iPhone 4 thinks signal is excellent. Until you touch it. Every other phone maybe drops a bar if i cover the entire antenna.

And numerous people have video recorded those effect.

 

[Mr. Gates]

Chill1n needs to chill !

Re---Dickulous

 

[cloudberrybrew]

ffs everyone ****

 

[kernkraft]

chill1n is right. there are no problems with the phones. the problem is that we don't know how to hold a phone.

OK, it's the customers' fault. Stupid people act like they never had a phone...

But putting the antenna around wasn't a good idea either.

That's your loop there!

 

[cloudberrybrew]

OK, it's the customers' fault. Stupid people act like they never had a phone...

But putting the antenna around wasn't a good idea either.

+1

 

[rsocal]

Take it back

Copy Nd paste allow want - it does not say touching one spot eliminates reception. It says blocking the antenna (and it shows the entire bottom of the phone, not one spot) interferes with reception. No duh. We all know every phone gets worse reception of you block the antenna. On the phone 4 you do not have to block the antenna. You just have to make physical contact with One specific part of it that is nearly impossible to avoid. The whole antenna can be clear but one mm of it, and many of us get zero reception.

Give Apple a chance to address and fix or take it back, so many people are losing sleep over something so miner and with all the iPhone does are phone calls all you people use it for? Just watched my wife use my new iPhone 4 with her fingers bridging the gap, no dropped call and our signal inside the house is weak. I also have held in hand (left death grip), turned WiFi off and lose some signal but keeps loading page at speed!

 

[jb007clone]

f you have been experiencing dropped calls with your iPhone 4, my sympathies... but a dropped call, and a bunch of dropped calls, and a bunch of people claiming dropped calls, with zero cell tower data, or at the very least eliminating the cell tower as a variable, doesn't mean something its defective.

no, quite the contrary, it means the phone is functioning perfectly.

/s

there is still a debate as to whether software and/or hardware is to blame for the issue, BUT THERE IS AN ISSUE!

 

[Mr. Gates]

I think these little personal fights are beast suited for the PM's

Oh! ......Yes ! there is that option

 

[MacNutt2010]

Translation of Apple's Response on iPhone 4

Translation of Apple statement on iPhone antenna reception: The phone works perfectly if you don't hold it!

 

[franswa za]

good gracious people! all this interesting bickering?

i've been following this thread intermittently throughout the day (it's now almost 01H45 in south africa, and i need to SLEEP)

i doubt if apple will ever admit to the physical design flaw of the iphone4's external antennas that will/are shorted using the phone in a normal way

so many users are experiencing dropped calls etc., no need for "scientific" tests...... the beautifully designed and built iphone4 DOES NOT DO what it's suppose to do, simple reliable phone calls- the stainless case is it's greatest beauty and achilles heel

fortunately the phone in it's current guise will not be available for us in south africa for some time!

i predict that apple will offer a soft/firmware update that will alleviate the "non-issue" at the expense of the phone's battery life

iphone5 will be perfect!

 

[cmaier]

Give Apple a chance to address and fix or take it back, so many people are losing sleep over something so miner and with all the iPhone does are phone calls all you people use it for? Just watched my wife use my new iPhone 4 with her fingers bridging the gap, no dropped call and our signal inside the house is weak. I also have held in hand (left death grip), turned WiFi off and lose some signal but keeps loading page at speed!

I am not saying that every iPhone 4 has the problem, or that an iPhone with the problem will experience it under every condition. I am not saying apple wont fix it via software tomorrow.

I merely dispute the moronic suggestion that no one has proven that at least some percentage of iPhone 4s have a problem, and that any such problem is one shared by all or many competing phones. Such a suggestion is akin to denying evolution in that it is based in a stubborn refusal to accept as evidence any experiment, test, or evidence that doesn't fit one's hypothesis.

 

[Ochyandkaren]

QFT. Thank you sir or madam. I have been trying to explain this to people to no avail. While the iphone does have a problem, it can be fixed with firmware. The switching algorithim can be adjusted, or even the power through the antennae. Some hardware fails can be fixed with software.

Could the iphone have been designed better? Sure. The antennae should be behind the glass. Is the current problem unsolvable? No.

One question, why Apple did not embed the antenna in (within) the glass, around the border, front and back?
Or it is not possible (if it is a stupid question, say so)?

 

[jb007clone]

I know you're being funny, but it's absolutely true of any cell phone. It was why I bought a bluetooth headset, because while I live in an area with good cell, I am in a valley and surrounded by trees, so cell is spotty. Even before I got my first iPhone, if I was to make an important call, I'd set the phone down, and use my headset. Best reception possible in my situation. Works great.

So in summary are you saying "Hold it differently"?

 

[rsocal]

I get ya

I am not saying that every iPhone 4 has the problem, or that an iPhone with the problem will experience it under every condition. I am not saying apple wont fix it via software tomorrow.

I merely dispute the moronic suggestion that no one has proven that at least some percentage of iPhone 4s have a problem, and that any such problem is one shared by all or many competing phones. Such a suggestion is akin to denying evolution in that it is based in a stubborn refusal to accept as evidence any experiment, test, or evidence that doesn't fit one's hypothesis.

So do you agree the iPhone 4 is still a great product and that Apple will resolve this miner glitch as they always have done whenever a problem has come up???

 

[cmaier]

First of all, anyone familiar with engineers knows that engineers very often flub their science to get the thing they're working on working. Engineers move us forward, and are not afraid of variances, nor do they report them. Now... had you said you were a PhD in Physics, then I'd know that you are very accurate indeed with your science. Physics and engineers are always at odds with each other concerning science and experiment. Engineers are more practical, physicists are supremely accurate... and usually report nothing because they are skeptical of their experiments.

I respectfully disagree, holding a Masters in Philosophy and History of Science and Technology, that the "experiments" thus far hold any scientific rigor whatsoever. They are anacdotal at best, with enough missing data to barely squeeze into the Grand Canyon.

You are an engineer. Not a scientist. You get things done (and you create), you do not prove things.

Lol. That degree is supposed to BOLSTER your argument? Go take a grad class in microwave engineering and another in design of experiments and then tell us why our evidence is not good enough. So far your only reason stated seems to be that there is more than one uncontrolled variable. Any scientist (or engineer) knows that this is not a reason to invalidate an experiment, and, in fact, nearly all experiments have morenthan one uncontrolled variable.

 

[Mr. Gates]

I just remembered paying .99 for a WALLPAPER PICTURE with my old RAZR

Now all this Bitchin is making me Laugh

 

[viewfly]

You are ridiculous. It doesn't happen for my three older iPhones, or my nexus one. It happens not just at the microcell but in multiple other locations, some of which I have listed. And a microcell is a very strong signal, not a "poor cell". That's the point of a microcell.

And the phone goes from 5 bars to 0 when you touch it. By definition your theory that this is the same as what the incredible will do in poor cell areas is stupid - it HAS FIVE BARS UNTIL YOU TOUCH IT. it wouldn't start with five bars if the cell reception was bad. The iPhone 4 thinks signal is excellent. Until you touch it. Every other phone maybe drops a bar if i cover the entire antenna.

And numerous people have video recorded those effect.

At 5 bars, you could have signal of -91 dBm through -51 dBm. At 5 bars to 0 bars you will have -91 dBm through -113 dBm. That is 40db vs. 22db. A huge difference. So 5 bars with no indication of actual dBm is of little value. It is not hard to get a a 10 db change by using the 'death grip' on the phone. In one case you will see it; in the other not at all...just looking at 'bars'.

The bar scale is favored to show when you are in a weaker signal area.