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Jobs is more creative with less business skills, and Gates is less creative but a smart businessman.

Their bank accounts will prove that. End of discussion.
 
get real, you can't make up words like market extortion when talking about corporate finance.

Nor can you qualify Microsoft's business practices as ethical within the realm of the "World of Business."

A sample of documented litigations:

▪ Apple Inc. (known as Apple Computer, Inc. at the time), which accused Microsoft in the late 1980s of copying the "look and feel" of the graphical user interface of Apple's operating systems. The courts ruled in favor of Microsoft in 1994. Another suit by Apple accused Microsoft, along with Intel and the San Francisco Canyon Company, in 1995 of knowingly stealing several thousand lines of QuickTime source code in an effort to improve the performance of Video for Windows. After a threat to withdraw support for Office for Mac, this lawsuit was ultimately settled in 1997. Apple agreed to make Internet Explorer the default browser over Netscape, and Microsoft agreed to continue developing Office and other software for the Mac for the next 5 years, purchase $150 million of non-voting Apple stock, and made a quiet payoff estimated to be in the US$500 million-$2 billion range.

▪ AOL, on behalf of its Netscape division. Netscape (as an independent company) also was involved in the United States v. Microsoft antitrust suit.

▪ Spyglass, which licensed its browser to Microsoft in return for a percentage of each sale; Microsoft turned the browser into Internet Explorer and bundled it with Windows, giving it away to gain market share but effectively destroying any chance of Spyglass making money from the deal they had signed with Microsoft; Spyglass sued for deception and won a $8 million settlement.

▪ Eolas and University of California, which accused Microsoft of using some of its software patents in their web browser, won $521 million in court.

▪ Be Inc., which accused Microsoft of exclusionary and anticompetitive behavior intended to drive Be out of the market. Be even offered to license its Be Operating System (BeOS) for free to any PC vendors who would ship it pre-installed, but the vendors declined due to what Be believes were fears of pricing retaliation from Microsoft: by raising the price of Microsoft Windows for one particular PC vendor, Microsoft could price that vendor's PCs out of the market.

▪ Bristol Technology Inc., which accused Microsoft illegally withheld Windows source code and used its dominant position with Windows to move into other markets. A ruling later ordered Microsoft to pay $1 Million to Bristol Technologies.

▪ Stac Electronics, which accused Microsoft of stealing its data compression code and using it in MS-DOS 6. Microsoft eventually lost the subsequent lawsuit and was ordered by a federal court to pay roughly $120 million in compensation.

▪ Many other smaller companies have filed patent abuse and predatory practice suits against Microsoft.

Not to mention, that losing the DOJ and EU cases has resulted in +$10B’s in fines and (more importantly) permanent damage to MSFT's reputation.

There's no denying that Microsoft is world renowned for its predatory practices, monopolistic abuse, coercive tactics, sleazy and exclusive OEM deals, and vendor lock-in.

Pretty shameful, no matter how you want to 'spin' it.
 
A lot of people have not been saints. Name this famous person and company:

Started out selling Blue Boxes to rip off the phone company. Now does everything possible to prevent hackers of his own products.

Got a real job that was over his head and farmed it out to a partner. Got paid for the result and lied to the partner about his profit share.

Sued Microsoft over look and feel. Got sued in return by Xerox.

Was pushed out of Apple and formed NeXT. Stole top Apple engineers and was sued by Apple. Years later, tried to stop Palm from doing the same thing.

Sued clone makers into oblivion.

Used visual voice mail and was sued for it. Lost suit, paid royalties. Used other people's patented methods of quick scrolling in web browser. Got sued for it, trial pending. Used other company's patented methods of communications. Got sued for it, trial pending.

As someone said, welcome to the business world.
 
A lot of people have not been saints. Name this famous person and company:

Started out selling Blue Boxes to rip off the phone company. Now does everything possible to prevent hackers of his own products.

The true source for the Blue Box concept: The "Cap'n Crunch Whistle."

It seems that protecting the EULA would be the motivating factor for prevention of hackers, in regard to Psystar's case.

Got a real job that was over his head and farmed it out to a partner. Got paid for the result and lied to the partner about his profit share.

Punishable by seven "Hail Mary's" and a genuine apology (non begrudging) - with all due respect, the agent was entitled to his "commission."

Sued Microsoft over look and feel. Got sued in return by Xerox.

However, they did grant XEROX the right to acquire US$1,000,000 of pre-IPO stock in return for access to PARC's facilities.

Was pushed out of Apple and formed NeXT. Stole top Apple engineers and was sued by Apple.

The difference being, Apple was Job's company. Rubinstein - a defected, and disgruntled ex-Apple employee.

Sued clone makers into oblivion.

Again, EULA and IP protection.

As someone said, welcome to the business world.

The scales of sleazery tip dramatically toward MS's side, nonetheless.
 
The true source for the Blue Box concept: The "Cap'n Crunch Whistle."

It seems that protecting the EULA would be the motivating factor for prevention of hackers, in regard to Psystar's case.



Punishable by seven "Hail Mary's" and a genuine apology (non begrudging) - with all due respect, the agent was entitled to his "commission."



However, they did grant XEROX the right to acquire US$1,000,000 of pre-IPO stock in return for access to PARC's facilities.



The difference being, Apple was Job's company. Rubinstein - a defected, and disgruntled ex-Apple employee.



Again, EULA and IP protection.



The scales of sleazery tip dramatically toward MS's side, nonetheless.

most smart investors will tell you that we're not here to make friends, we're here to make money. I'm sure Bill would agree.
 
I think that this claim is ridiculous.

Windows 7 Home Premium is the default OEM installation. Few people will have any use for the additional features in Professional and Ultimate, so I doubt that they will "probably" upgrade.

And technically, you upgrade your license if you choose - not purchase a second one.
Five of the six "7" Editions are available for OEM licensing. There is a line up of popular laptops that come standard with the Starter Edition, which is so crippled that the user cannot even change desktop wallpaper!

Then there are those who buy pre-built PC (ergo a Windows license) & a retail Edition of Windows separately to clean install over the OEM version to get rid of extra stuff bogging the system down (2 licenses).
 
The man had great vision and plan!

This is true of SJ, version 2. While an MBA student in the 90s before Steve's return, he was considered by students and professors what not to do in business. Steve was "the" dreamer with a lot of visions, like the Lisa and other cool stuff, but with no real plan for how it relates to business. He deserved to get fired from the company he started.

What is great is how he learned from his mistakes and came back with Bill Gates' and Michael Dell's business smarts (for examples see post #128 which is perfect BG form), but retained the old Steve Jobs' creativity. Just when I thought iMac and iBook changed everything, he comes out with iPod, iTunes, and iPhone.

I have confidence in Steve's more recent business ability that if I were Bill Gates, or chairman of Ford, or of Wal Mart, Shell, or Columbia-Tristar, I know I would have him on a short list of possible CEOs. Just when we think we have seen all he can do with Apple, Next, and Pixar, he will surprise us with some other company he heads. Apple is nice, and a cute mid-sized company, but it's far from his true business potential.

Oh, and don't forget about Sony since I think they could use Steve right about now.

There has never been a business person so bad who has become so effective from learning from his/her own mistakes. I would say the sky is the limit for Steve, but I still don't see him as our next Governor as some Silicon Valley types think he could be, as opposed to Meg from eBay.
 
I think that this claim is ridiculous.

Windows 7 Home Premium is the default OEM installation. Few people will have any use for the additional features in Professional and Ultimate, so I doubt that they will "probably" upgrade.

And technically, you upgrade your license if you choose - not purchase a second one.

Five of the six "7" Editions are available for OEM licensing. There is a line up of popular laptops that come standard with the Starter Edition, which is so crippled that the user cannot even change desktop wallpaper!

Then there are those who buy pre-built PC (ergo a Windows license) & a retail Edition of Windows separately to clean install over the OEM version to get rid of extra stuff bogging the system down (2 licenses).

Quite true - the only thing "ridiculous" are his claims, themselves.

Coming from an avid Windows defender, this is hardly surprising.
 
Five of the six "7" Editions are available for OEM licensing. There is a line up of popular laptops that come standard with the Starter Edition, which is so crippled that the user cannot even change desktop wallpaper!

Windows 7 is available in six different editions, but only Home Premium, Professional and Ultimate are widely available at retail.

In the United States, Windows 7 Starter is only available on small notebook PCs (netbooks).

This is in line with my claim that few people will upgrade. The laptops you mention with "Starter" - what are they and where are they sold. A full-sized, powerful laptop with Starter would be a candidate for an upgrade - you're right there.


Then there are those who buy pre-built PC (ergo a Windows license) & a retail Edition of Windows separately to clean install over the OEM version to get rid of extra stuff bogging the system down (2 licenses).

There may be some people doing this as well - but the smarter ones would get the OEM Windows kit off the network, and reuse the OEM key that's on the sticker on the computer.

And, as far as "extra stuff bogging" the system, there's a control panel page that lets you remove stuff. Most vendors have heard the complaints about bloatware, and have made it easy to remove.
___________________________________

I still think that it is ridiculous to claim that more than half the people buying a new Win7 system will purchase another license - or even upgrade their current license via Windows Anytime Upgrade.


Practically all new PCs come with a crippled version of Windows license, then if you actually use Windows you probably go buy a less crippled edition (2 licenses not including work).
 
Backpedalling within the same post - this one sets a new bar:
This is in line with my claim that few people will upgrade.

I still think that it is ridiculous to claim that more than half the people buying a new Win7 system will purchase another license - or even upgrade their current license via Windows Anytime Upgrade.


There may be some people doing this as well - but the smarter ones would get the OEM Windows kit off the network, and reuse the OEM key that's on the sticker on the computer.

He slips in another dig aimed at the average, uninformed consumer.

Less smart? Unlikely.

Uninformed? More likely.

Why would most Windows users need to jump through hoops to upgrade their OS, let alone, be aware of the OEM Windows kit, when the Windows Anytime Upgrade is being pushed?

What's more bewildering, is that your link pertains to Vista, not W7.

The 'Microsoft Tax' here, far exceeds that of any premium Apple maintains on its products.

It remains ridiculous that you would defend this nonsensical OS structure, in the first place.
 
Thank you for politely pointing out that I made a mistake in the link - I've fixed my post.

Now you know why that affiliate links check from Microsoft didn't arrive in time for Christmas. :p

It remains ridiculous that you would defend this nonsensical OS structure, in the first place.

Hey, it pays the bills (and nets him a sweet new Microsoft polo shirt every year).
 
Now you know why that affiliate links check from Microsoft didn't arrive in time for Christmas. :p

Hey, it pays the bills (and nets him a sweet new Microsoft polo shirt every year).

Actually, it did arrive - and immediately became a new A6 - and Uncle Sam picked up the sales tax! :D

ps: I noticed that you fixed the typos with the use of gerunds in your sig - good job.
 
They won't have to - most Windows users will have no need to upgrade the OS (at least, not until Windows 8 comes out). You are criticizing a non-issue.

Speaking for the masses, are we?

Actually, it did arrive - and immediately became a new A6 - and Uncle Sam picked up the sales tax! :D

Shamelessly, he exploits another opportunity to brag about his lifestyle.

I might be inclined to stoop to your level by mentioning my car, salary, and art collection, all of which would put yours to shame, but I'll refrain.
 
I might be inclined to stoop to your level by mentioning my car, salary, and art collection, all of which would put yours to shame, but I'll refrain.

No, you didn't refrain - you just mentioned them.

Welcome to Aiden's level.

(And, of course, there's no Microsoft check and no brand new A6 in the garage - but you knew that ;) .)
 
No, you didn't refrain - you just mentioned them.

Welcome to Aiden's level.

No, Aiden's level would have specified the details of his monthly salary:

I make a bit more than $13K/month - and I can't afford Apple stuff...

The model of his car:

Actually, it did arrive - and immediately became a new A6

And details about the value and gallery, which you claim to 'patronize.'

One of my pieces of art jumped $12K in value in one day.

The artist announced that she was not longer going to produce any pieces in that style. That meant that the supply side of supply/demand dropped to zero.

The manager of a gallery that I patronize called me that afternoon, wondering if I would want to sell any of the items that I had....

No one here has come close to descending to Aiden's level, but you.
 
No, Aiden's level would have specified the details of the monthly salary:

And of course, Mr. "Quote Out of Context" DMann, you don't point out that was in context:

200388920.gif


I make about $13,000 per year. What is this "status" you speak of? :confused:

Originally Posted by AidenShaw
I make a bit more than $13K/month - and I can't afford Apple stuff...

So, a play on "month" vs. "year" -- which you repeatedly fail to include in your out-of-context quote.

I also like the inconsistency (or should I use your favorite word "hypocrisy") of finding these posts, yet yesterday you accused me of not mentioning my phone model in spite of a clear record that I have.

Priceless.
 
Finally you're learning how the world of business works outside the EU and Japan. Kudos.

This is why I love the EU and Japanese system so much. They're so strict on companies that they're light-years ahead anybody else. :D

No really, its friggin awesome. You should go to Japan or like Norway or something for a couple of weeks, it will blow you're freakin mind! They entry phones are just about what we class as smart phones!
 
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