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Although I was satisfied when I read the title ... I always felt like apple is the underdog, and steve jobs is the mini innocent ceo ... however, apple is huge financially and that perception of the underdog is surely fading away quickly ...

I am sure he's an awesome ceo ... however, if anyone can enlighten me, what kind of decisions does a ceo have or must take when most of the employees are the ones paid to generate the ideas and create the new technologies.

It's not like steve jobs saw the iPhone in his dream one night ... or did he ? someone help my train of thought please ... thanks


to summarize what I want to say: Shouldn't the original creators behind the touch screen technologies and the iPod technology be the heros on the front page ? ... again .. I am a huge fan of steve jobs .. he's like an icon to me, I am just asking why does it seem to me that the "Engineering" and the "Marketing" heros hidden behind the scenes... I'd love to find out about who are the people behind the iPod's scrolling wheel technology, who's the person or the people making the team that decided that the new snow leopard must be slimmed down and made faster, the magic mouse designer, the so on ...

c'est tout ... that's it :D
 
Congratulations Jobs! Great going!!! I wonder what Apple would have been like without him...what a great CEO!
 
Very impressive guy that Steve Jobs! Aside from praise for OS X, iPods & iPhones, etc., I recall reading how Steve met strong resistance to $1 songs in the iTunes Store. As we know, Steve prevailed & it turned out to be a huge success! I've lost count, is it 10 billion songs sold yet?
 
1. There had to be a personal computer industry to begin with. Thank Apple.
2. Giving to good causes is not innovative, but BG did create his own foundation, yes.
3. 10s of millions of IT jobs over the last 30 years. Yes, an entire industry has grown up around fixing Winblows. Not very innovative, but the jobs were created, no doubt about that.

CEO's are not here to make friends and win popularity awards.

They're sole purpose is to grow the company and increase share value for shareholders.

Based on that, Apple doesn't even come close.

Lets see why,

Apple market Cap is $100 Billion less than MSFT ( win for Bill)
Microsoft Gross Margins are around 44% higher than Apples ( win for Bill)
Revenue for Apple is $20 Billion less than MSFT (win for Bill)
Microsoft has double the levered free cash flow of apple $14.57 Billion compared to apples $6.8 Billion.

Apple is a distance second, at best. (but obviously this topic isn't about who runs their company better, it's a popularity award)
 
CEO's are not here to make friends and win popularity awards.

They're sole purpose is to grow the company and increase share value for shareholders.

Based on that, Apple doesn't even come close.

Lets see why,

Apple market Cap is $100 Billion less than MSFT ( win for Bill)
Microsoft Gross Margins are around 44% higher than Apples ( win for Bill)
Revenue for Apple is $20 Billion less than MSFT (win for Bill)
Microsoft has double the levered free cash flow of apple $14.57 Billion compared to apples $6.8 Billion.

Apple is a distance second, at best. (but obviously this topic isn't about who runs their company better, it's a popularity award)

From a quality vs quantity point of view, in addition to how gains were garnered via abuse of monopolistic position, vendor lock-in, and sleazy OEM deals, MS seems to have been justifiably disqualified from the Hall of Fame.

Besides, the exponential growth of Apple, since Steve Jobs took the helm, has been far greater, during the past decade, than the flat-line growth of Microsoft.
 
From a quality vs quantity point of view, in addition to how gains were garnered via abuse of monopolistic position, vendor lock-in, and sleazy OEM deals, MS seems to have been justifiably disqualified from the Hall of Fame.

Besides, the exponential growth of Apple, since Steve Jobs took the helm, has been far greater, during the past decade, than the flat-line growth of Microsoft.

Microsoft's growth can be defined by a sine wave.
 
I agree. But Microsoft lately has been such a bunch of copycats I can't stand it.

Lately???

I'd love to hear some examples of actual Microsoft innovation in their entire history.

Windows = Mac knockoff
Zune = iPod knockoff
Xbox = give us a slice of that PlayStation pie please! (And the 360 hardware design is a Dell Optiplex in white.)
Bing = Google
PowerPoint = acquisition
Soapbox (RIP) = YouTube
MyPhone = MobileMe
Project Natal = give us a slice of that Nintendo motion gaming please! Johnny Chung Lee originally demoed some cool stuff using Wii remotes. Microsoft quickly snatched him up and he is now on the Natal team.
DOS = acquisition
Microsoft Store = Apple Store
Songsmith = LOL!

The list goes on and on.
 
Lately???

I'd love to hear some examples of actual Microsoft innovation in their entire history.

Windows = Mac knockoff
Zune = iPod knockoff
Xbox = give us a slice of that PlayStation pie please! (And the 360 hardware design is a Dell Optiplex in white.)
Bing = Google
PowerPoint = acquisition
Soapbox (RIP) = YouTube
MyPhone = MobileMe
Project Natal = give us a slice of that Nintendo motion gaming please! Johnny Chung Lee originally demoed some cool stuff using Wii remotes. Microsoft quickly snatched him up and he is now on the Natal team.
DOS = acquisition
Microsoft Store = Apple Store
Songsmith = LOL!

The list goes on and on.

I know where they innovated, they copied KDE and made people think they copied mac OSX.

That has to use some creativity... right???
 
From a quality vs quantity point of view, in addition to how gains were garnered via abuse of monopolistic position, vendor lock-in, and sleazy OEM deals, MS seems to have been justifiably disqualified from the Hall of Fame.

Besides, the exponential growth of Apple, since Steve Jobs took the helm, has been far greater, during the past decade, than the flat-line growth of Microsoft.

I'm not comparing their products or their methods of business

I'm stating the fact that in business, the goal is maximize revenue/profits, and reduce costs.

Based on those factors, Apple would lose, but as I said before, this is a popularity contest, and not about which is the more profitable company.
 
In a pure Capitalist economy. Not in a Hybrid or Socialist.

it's sad how people with no formal education on finance and economics try to make sense of this stuff..
keep at it.

But you're right, I don't think apple wishes to increase their revenue or to increase their profit margin to the levels of Microsoft. Apple is not in business to make money, they only wish to make a product that everyone wants to purchase.
 
One cannot conclude the outcome of any of the actions you describe. Factors could have been right when the initial iMac was released, USB inception, manufacturing process (clear or translucent plastic) that lead to following products. Saying if :apple: back in the days invested in OS X holds no truth as even if they did it was the various other factors that led to its success. Lets not forget PPC and migration to intel. I hear that Steve Jobs has calmed down quite a bit from his prime days at :apple:.

Who knows if Steve Jobs stayed at :apple: and still produced Mac OS X then it could have been a flop, just saying anything is possible. Do not make it sound that the factors now would have favoured factors a decade or so ago.

I did wrote "it might have." However...

Somehow factors are always "right" when Apple popularized a number of products. Examples, things that people take for granted now:

  • Personal computer
  • GUI
  • Mouse
  • USB
  • Wifi
  • Portable media player that are easy to use
  • Phone that don't need 100 page manuals
Sure, Apple got lucky every single time. Completely luck, nothing else. =p
 
I'm not comparing their products or their methods of business

I'm stating the fact that in business, the goal is maximize revenue/profits, and reduce costs.

Based on those factors, Apple would lose, but as I said before, this is a popularity contest, and not about which is the more profitable company.

Yes, I understand - the goal is to maximize revenue/profits, and reduce costs.

I hereby nominate Bernard Madoff as the World's Best Performing Investment Broker, based on the merits of his outstanding revenue/profits, and reduced costs.

You can be most assured, that his win would not be based on popularity alone.
 
CEO's are not here to make friends and win popularity awards.

They're sole purpose is to grow the company and increase share value for shareholders.

Based on that, Apple doesn't even come close.

Lets see why,

Apple market Cap is $100 Billion less than MSFT ( win for Bill)
Microsoft Gross Margins are around 44% higher than Apples ( win for Bill)
Revenue for Apple is $20 Billion less than MSFT (win for Bill)
Microsoft has double the levered free cash flow of apple $14.57 Billion compared to apples $6.8 Billion.

Apple is a distance second, at best. (but obviously this topic isn't about who runs their company better, it's a popularity award)
Aside from his infringing patents and abusing monopolistic power to crush innovation skills, BG was an amazing license pedaler. Statistically there must be 10 Windows licenses from me (e.g., from standard issue work machines & pre-built PCs I've bought & wiped the HDD with Linux) but I don't even use Windows.

Practically all new PCs come with a crippled version of Windows license, then if you actually use Windows you probably go buy a less crippled edition (2 licenses not including work).
 
Practically all new PCs come with a crippled version of Windows license, then if you actually use Windows you probably go buy a less crippled edition (2 licenses not including work).

I think that this claim is ridiculous.

Windows 7 Home Premium is the default OEM installation. Few people will have any use for the additional features in Professional and Ultimate, so I doubt that they will "probably" upgrade.

And technically, you upgrade your license if you choose - not purchase a second one.
 
Somehow factors are always "right" when Apple popularized a number of products. Examples, things that people take for granted now:
  • Personal computer
  • ...
  • Phone that don't need 100 page manuals

I'd say the Commodore PET ($700) and TRS-80 ($600), which came out the same year, did far more to popularize the personal computer, than the much more expensive Apple II ($1200), which was seen more as a business machine due to its cost. Throw in 48K RAM and you're talking $2600... a huge sum back in 1977 when the minimum wage was $2.30 an hour.

As for needing manuals, I don't remember using any for my other smartphones. Seriously, who ever reads those? :p

Nevertheless, the iPhone does have a 216 page manual.
 
Apple employment

I understand that sometimes companies are forced to produce their items with inexpensive labor to compete. What I can't understand is the fact that producing the items abroad doesn't bring down the price, and although salaries are low there we still pay the same as if they were made in the USA.
I hope that Mr. Steve Jobs uses his vision to apply reforms to the company in the near future, among them producing Apple items in the USA and creating jobs for his own good, taking in consideration that an unemployed worker does not consume.
Besides, we have Macs because we were under the impression that they were created and made in America for the world to enjoy and not the opposite.
 
Even with all the hindsight, I wonder if I could ever make those decisions he made to put apple where it is.
Truly. very. impressed.
 
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