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Steve Jobs Offers Explanation About iPhone SDK Changes Restricting Adobe and Other Cross Compilers

KnightWRX said:
So your issue is the content, not the platform.
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Nope, all I use flash for is YouTube. If they improve their HTML5 player a little bit more I would uninstall flash this second.

KnightWRX said:
People going : "Flash makes my computer overheat and crash!" seem to be exaggerating a bit... My fans come on just playing Sims 2 on the Macbook, I don't go around screaming that OpenGL sucks! :rolleyes:
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Except you seem to be ignoring the part that it does make my computer crash and burn.
KnightWRX said:
Seriously, all this anti-Flash propaganda needs to stop. It's seriously looking retarded to people who are sitting there wasting time watching Flash movies and playing Flash games and thinking : "what the hell is wrong with my computer, it's not overheating or crashing doing all this...".
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All I use flash for is wasting time watching movies, like a majority of people here.
KnightWRX said:
And this has what to do exactly with iTunes conformance to Windows look and feel guidelines ? This has what to do with iTunes performance on Windows ? Try not to be a zealot here (you usually aren't). Apple doesn't care about the look and feel of their flagship software on it's most popular platform, I'm supposed to think they care about look and feel of some 3rd party apps on the iPhone ? Please.
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Reread which part I was replying too.

The factor here is the iPhone isn't a competitor's product.

BTW, Apple merely wanted iTunes and Safari too like like Apple products on windows, they wanted their look and feel.
 
KnightWRX said:
Apple doesn't care about any "quality" issues. They care to lock in developers to prevent other platforms from taking off as much as they can.
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+1. How are we still arguing over this? SJ admitted as much himself: "If that were to happen, there’s no lock-in advantage. If, say, a mobile Flash software platform — which encompassed multiple lower-level platforms, running on iPhone, Android, Windows Phone 7, and BlackBerry — were established, that app market would not give people a reason to prefer the iPhone."

This is not a quality control issue, it is a regular old control issue. Any customer who thinks that this new regulation will somehow benefit them personally (as a customer, not a shareholder) is seriously deluded.
 
MorphingDragon said:
Except you seem to be ignoring the part that it does make my computer crash and burn.
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Again, what computer is this, and how much is it costing you to change computers everytime you watch a Youtube video ? Must be getting expensive... Might I suggest DVDs ?

Flash doesn't crash or burn your computer. It's not anymore unstable than any other piece of software I've ever used. I can waste time on Youtube or Break.com all day without any problems or fans ripping at indecent RPMs or my lap getting burned from my laptop sitting there.

My computer actually gets more hot playing Sims 2 than running any kind of Flash for a long period of time.

What about all the Facebook apps made with Flex, heck, Farmville... my GF plays that crap about 2 hours per night, with her laptop sitting on her lap. I don't hear any fans, I don't see any open flames, and she hasn't rebooted the thing in ages (I almost have to twist her arm to do updates, she still refuses to put on Snow Leopard even though I paid for a 5 user license...).

Gross exaggeration doesn't make for a very solid argument.

MorphingDragon said:
Reread which part I was replying too.

The factor here is the iPhone isn't a competitor's product.

BTW, Apple merely wanted iTunes and Safari too like like Apple products on windows, they wanted their look and feel.
Click to expand...

So wait, it's ok for Apple to want their own look and feel on someone's else platform, but it's not ok for 3rd parties to want their own look and feel on Apple's platform ?

I'm going to tap the "Double Standards" sign again. Please pay attention this time.

And seriously, I doubt Steve is even close to having these double standards. He doesn't care about look and feel of Flash apps. He cares that Adobe making a Flash packager for iPhone means they can make one for any other platform, pushing devs to using Flash/Flex to build their mobile apps, meaning the iPhone loses any kind of exclusivity it had before.

It's shortsighted.
 
Kesuke said:
Its a big number right? - not really, in the same 3 year space of time 3.6 billion phones have been manufactured globally. That means iPhones represent ~2% of all phones made in the last 3 years...
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Tell that to the people who think that Adobe could encourage some sort of government anti-trust action against Apple for their <3% market "dominance".

Also, doesn't the 85M units included iPod Touches and iPads?

As for the number of developers who might abandon ship, according to this:

http://blog.flurry.com/bid/31825/iPad-Developer-Support-Continues-to-Soar

Apple could afford to lose 10% of mobile developers currently starting projects, and still be ahead of their position last year. There is no lock-in, so maybe you think they'll all jump to Symbian development?
 
KnightWRX said:
Again, what computer is this, and how much is it costing you to change computers everytime you watch a Youtube video ? Must be getting expensive... Might I suggest DVDs ?

Flash doesn't crash or burn your computer. It's not anymore unstable than any other piece of software I've ever used. I can waste time on Youtube or Break.com all day without any problems or fans ripping at indecent RPMs or my lap getting burned from my laptop sitting there.

My computer actually gets more hot playing Sims 2 than running any kind of Flash for a long period of time.

What about all the Facebook apps made with Flex, heck, Farmville... my GF plays that crap about 2 hours per night, with her laptop sitting on her lap. I don't hear any fans, I don't see any open flames, and she hasn't rebooted the thing in ages (I almost have to twist her arm to do updates, she still refuses to put on Snow Leopard even though I paid for a 5 user license...).

Gross exaggeration doesn't make for a very solid argument.



So wait, it's ok for Apple to want their own look and feel on someone's else platform, but it's not ok for 3rd parties to want their own look and feel on Apple's platform ?

I'm going to tap the "Double Standards" sign again. Please pay attention this time.
Click to expand...


My computer heats up when there's Flash on the page too.

I'm using the latest Firefox and Safari on a MBP late 2006.

Flash plays differently on different setups. My PC at work seems fine with it, but my MBP isn't, and they both run very similar hardwear with the only difference being the graphics card and a slightly faster - I'm talkin like 0.2GHz - CPU in the PC.
 
By the way, the title should not be "Cross Compilers" because these are not compilers. They're runtime environments. If they were real compilers it would be a little bit less of an issue.
 
I wish people discussing this would see past "Adobe" and "Flash" in the headline. This is about MUCH, MUCH more than just Adobe and their attempt to port Flash apps to iPhone. These new rules would exclude lots of valuable apps and games which were produced using tools other than C/C++/Obj-C using Xcode.

Take a good look at the top 100 games in the App store right now. If you own some of them, find their file in iTunes, rename their extension to .zip, then dump the symbols from some of the files, and you'll see that MANY of the top-selling, most popular games violate the new rules. Yes, even Tap Tap Revolution that Steve Jobs featured in his iPhone OS 4 announcement! It uses Lua scripting - a no-no since it is not C/C++/Obj-C compiled by Xcode!

I know you all think these rules will do nothing but get rid of/keep out the trash apps, but you're wrong. Are you willing to either see some of your favorite apps pulled, or never see such apps introduced in the first place? Would the App store really be a better place as a result? Think about it!
 
KnightWRX said:
Again, what computer is this, and how much is it costing you to change computers everytime you watch a Youtube video ? Must be getting expensive... Might I suggest DVDs ?
Click to expand...

It is a 2.0GHZ Intel Mac Mini. I used to have a G4 but my friend offered me this until I can get enough money to get an iMac.

KnightWRX said:
Flash doesn't crash or burn your computer. It's not anymore unstable than any other piece of software I've ever used. I can waste time on Youtube or Break.com all day without any problems or fans ripping at indecent RPMs or my lap getting burned from my laptop sitting there.
Click to expand...

You're telling me what my computer does?

LOL! 'Tis meme worthy.

KnightWRX said:
My computer actually gets more hot playing Sims 2 than running any kind of Flash for a long period of time.
Click to expand...

Well duh, The Sims 2 is 3D Graphics processing and heavy AI. Of course its going to be hotter than vector 2D processing.

KnightWRX said:
What about all the Facebook apps made with Flex, heck, Farmville... my GF plays that crap about 2 hours per night, with her laptop sitting on her lap. I don't hear any fans, I don't see any open flames, and she hasn't rebooted the thing in ages (I almost have to twist her arm to do updates, she still refuses to put on Snow Leopard even though I paid for a 5 user license...).
Click to expand...

The retarded thing is, if you open a flash video in Professional it has some retardedly complex and bloated actionscript attached to it, a lot more than a normal game.
 
KnightWRX said:
So wait, it's ok for Apple to want their own look and feel on someone's else platform, but it's not ok for 3rd parties to want their own look and feel on Apple's platform ?

I'm going to tap the "Double Standards" sign again.
Click to expand...

It's a single standard. Apple thinks their look and feel is better, on either platform. And the way Microsoft seems to start up their photocopy machines whenever Apple introduces a new OS, Microsoft might well be of similar opinion.
 
Punchey said:
I wish people discussing this would see past "Adobe" and "Flash" in the headline. This is about MUCH, MUCH more than just Adobe and their attempt to port Flash apps to iPhone. These new rules would exclude lots of valuable apps and games which were produced using tools other than C/C++/Obj-C using Xcode.

Take a good look at the top 100 games in the App store right now. If you own some of them, find their file in iTunes, rename their extension to .zip, then dump the symbols from some of the files, and you'll see that MANY of the top-selling, most popular games violate the new rules. Yes, even Tap Tap Revolution that Steve Jobs featured in his iPhone OS 4 announcement! It uses Lua scripting - a no-no since it is not C/C++/Obj-C compiled by Xcode!

I know you all think these rules will do nothing but get rid of/keep out the trash apps, but you're wrong. Are you willing to either see some of your favorite apps pulled, or never see such apps introduced in the first place? Would the App store really be a better place as a result? Think about it!
Click to expand...

But it's so much easier for people to throw around terms like "script kiddies" and dump on Flash (albeit, some have good arguments). Few people offered compelling arguments against some of the current, incredible middleware solutions for game developers.

It's sad to see people turn their backs on amazing (non-flash) game development engines because Jobs said so, and to all of a sudden preach the wonders and enjoyment of ads once iAd was announced. These boards confuse the hell out of me.


p.s. - one of the sponsors of Lua is Adobe. http://www.lua.org/sponsors.html
 
RoboCop001 said:
My computer heats up when there's Flash on the page too.

I'm using the latest Firefox and Safari on a MBP late 2006.

Flash plays differently on different setups. My PC at work seems fine with it, but my MBP isn't, and they both run very similar hardwear with the only difference being the graphics card and a slightly faster - I'm talkin like 0.2GHz - CPU in the PC.
Click to expand...

My computer heats up running the following code :

#!/bin/bash

SUM=`echo 1 | cksum`
while [ 1 ]
do
SUM=`echo $SUM | cksum`
done


It also crashes if I run the following bash script :

Code: 
:(){ :|:& };:

That doesn't mean Bash is bad software and should be removed from OS X in favor or ksh. :rolleyes:

Seriously, doing CPU intensive stuff makes the CPU run hot. News at 11. The simple fact is, Flash isn't as bad as you people are making it out to be.

MorphingDragon said:
Well duh, The Sims 2 is 3D Graphics processing and heavy AI. Of course its going to be hotter than vector 2D processing.
Click to expand...

So now we're agreeing that you're exagerating Flash's ability to turn your computer into a pocket oven ? Good, finally. Now stop the exagerations.

firewood said:
It's a single standard. Apple thinks their look and feel is better, on either platform. And the way Microsoft seems to start up their photocopy machines whenever Apple introduces a new OS, Microsoft might well be of similar opinion.
Click to expand...

No, it is a double standard. The argument was Flash doesn't use the platform's look and feel, including the iPhone, and that using a different look and feel from the platform your targetting is bad from a usuability standpoint, which Apple was trying to prevent. I simply pointed out Apple does the same thing and so in fact, either there's double standards or Apple doesn't really give a damn.
 
firewood said:
It's a single standard. Apple thinks their look and feel is better, on either platform.
Click to expand...

So, all I have to do is "think" that I have something better, and I'm free to violate any and all user interface guidelines for a platform?


firewood said:
And the way Microsoft seems to start up their photocopy machines whenever Apple introduces a new OS, Microsoft might well be of similar opinion.
Click to expand...

Like Apple's photocopiers added Dock Exposé to 10.6 after seeing Aero Peek in Windows 7?

:eek:
 
PeterQVenkman said:
Be sure to leave your donation to the church of jobs on your way out of the chapel.
Click to expand...

is your world only black and white?
I'm just saying it is completely idiotic to call idiot CEO of big company (Apple or Microsoft or Adobe it doesn't matter),
 
MorphingDragon said:
I love how Windows 7 implimented KDE4's look, style and behaviour. Now it makes Windows on par with Linux.

Yes, that did just happen.
Click to expand...

Which was the first Linux Distro with KDE4? (Or, a Linux Distro that I can find and download an early KDE4 layer onto.) I'll download them and build a VM to see.

A few people claim that Win7's UI is a copy of KDE - but since I only use Suse/RedHat enterprise distros I haven't seen that.

What I have seen of KDE4 looks to me like a copy of Vista - so little surprise that Win7 and KDE4 have similarities.
 
AidenShaw said:
Arrogance, though, leads to making decisions without considering the impact on users and partners.

Maintaining compatibility for your partners is important if you want them to succeed. Microsoft understands that, and invests a lot of effort to advance without causing widespread havoc each release. You need to give your partners plenty of notice when an incompatible change is necessary.
Click to expand...

Aiden, I am so happy you're not in charge on anything other than making nuisance posts.

The implication is that Adobe is a partner, please, give me a break. Adobe (and Google) should have been hugging Apple, but as dumb as as they are, they arrogantly chose to hitch their wagon to Windows.

I love it that arrogant jerks are now slowly realizing that their little world is collapsing. The iPad will once and for all end the MS tyranny (Gates the robber baron) that we have all been subject to.

ROTFLOL
 
why are phonegap apps having issues getting into the store even before this they state..

phonegap on iphone is written in Objective-C and executes JavaScript via iPhone OS Webkit engine
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is it an issue with phonegap or just the apps?
 
BVerites said:
The implication is that Adobe is a partner, please, give me a break. Adobe (and Google) should have been hugging Apple, but as dumb as as they are, they arrogantly chose to hitch their wagon to Windows.
Click to expand...

So which is it? Adobe has hitched their wagon to windows, or their CS market is about 40-50% mac users? It can't possibly be both. Creating an iPhone exporter doesn't seem to be the action of a company that is tied only to Windows.
 
AidenShaw said:
Yes, punishing your partners is good business. ;)

By the way, I don't believe that it was "punishment". In my opinion, it was more likely simple Apple arrogance, deciding to push the "better" way in spite of how much it hurts their customers.
Click to expand...

Hurts? Apple dropping Carbon64 didn't hurt any end user.
 
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