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Steve Jobs Offers Explanation About iPhone SDK Changes Restricting Adobe and Other Cross Compilers

KnightWRX said:
Really... I'm sure the users who had to move to Windows to get 64 bit Photoshop CS4 would like a word with you right about now.
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Who "had" to move to windows for simply a 64bit photoshop? There's nothing you can't do in 32bit photoshop that 64bit enables you to do. Surely there's a small speed increase but that wouldn't cause anyone to migrate to a whole other platform instead of waiting for the next CS release.

Photoshop have been working better on Windows for a long time now, so if speed is the only thing people care about, why would they wait to migrate anyway? They should have migrated a while ago.
 
cmaier said:
Unfortunately unless Apple has a monopoly (market power) in a relevant market, it can exclusive deal as much as it wants. And there is no such market (at least no such market that meets the requirements of antitrust law).
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But it will be interesting to see if Apple will allow the use of other solutions similar to Adobe's one (like Unity 3d). This is where it may hurt Apple. I do not believe for a second that Apple really is against all middleware and "undocumented API" (i.e. 3rt party tools). One the other hand, they can not approve something that works just like Adobe's tool but ban Adobe.
 
SactoGuy18 said:
I hope that Apple has a really smart legal team to protect itself because what Apple just did with the iPhone SDK changes is skating really close to violating the Sherman and Clayton Antitrust Acts in regards to deliberately harming a competitor, especially since Adobe's Creative Suite 5 can in theory actually write apps for the iPhone OS. It's almost the equivalent of saying you can drive from San Francisco to Los Angeles, but you can only do it with a Toyota Corolla.

Adobe can cite the US v. Microsoft case precedent, where Microsoft's decision to include--then eventually tightly integrate--Internet Explorer from Windows 95 OEM Service Release 2 forward pretty much destroyed Netscape as a viable company.
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Baloney-
Apple isn't taking away anything from Adobe. Nothing is there now.
The iPhone doesn't have the market share that windows had.
And whether or not CS5 can create apps for the iPhone because of what apple does with it's SDK TOS will not be the downfall of adobe. CS5's sole purpose is not just to compile Flash for iPhone apps and is not the primary reason most people would have bought CS n the past. the iPhone will not
 
lilo777 said:
But it will be interesting to see if Apple will allow the use of other solutions similar to Adobe's one (like Unity 3d). This is where it may hurt Apple. I do not believe for a second that Apple really is against all middleware and "undocumented API" (i.e. 3rt party tools). One the other hand, they can not approve something that works just like Adobe's tool but ban Adobe.
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Well, they actually can. They haven't yet, but they sure could.
 
AidenShaw said:
Who said "droves"?

If two people moved from Apple to Windows for x64 CS4 then the post is valid.

The earlier post said "Apple dropping Carbon64 didn't hurt any end user". Zero to two is a huge percentage increase. ;)
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You can send those two people to me to have a word with me then.
 
jerome65 said:
Your figure is quoting the percentage of the mobile application sales the App Store had and not the percentage of Apple's applications, the OS, or the iPhone. Again this just means that iPhone users buy software when other smart phone users tend to use the built in applications.
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Yeah...

A girl at my work has a Droid Eris. She said her neighbors dog has has been barking at her and her friends when they go in the back yard. I suggested she download a dog whistle app. She didn't even know how to get the the android market place on her phone. Thats really shocking to me, I mean...why buy a smartphone?
 
cmaier said:
Unfortunately unless Apple has a monopoly (market power) in a relevant market, it can exclusive deal as much as it wants. And there is no such market (at least no such market that meets the requirements of antitrust law).
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What I find ironic is that people suddenly are up in arms, yet they have been told for a long time that Cocoa is the foundation for OS X with the Mach microkernel and it's child, XNU kernel.

I'm open up to dozens of IDEs and even more languages to write in the full platform for OS X.

Suddenly, when Apple stream lines their embedded platform people cry foul?

It seems a lot of people are very unfamiliar with the history of embedded systems.
 
KnightWRX said:
Want to buy my Macbook ? It can run Flash contents without bursting into flames and doesn't require jet engine fans in order to stream Youtube content. :rolleyes:

Yes, I must be projecting. No Mac user ever can use Flash content on the Web. None at all. Crashes and Burns... Melted aluminium and all.
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Learn what crash and burn means.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=crash and burn

Not everybody is on a 11MBS connection, hell a lot of the world doesnt even get over 1MBS outside the major cities.
 
cmaier said:
Unfortunately unless Apple has a monopoly (market power) in a relevant market, it can exclusive deal as much as it wants. And there is no such market (at least no such market that meets the requirements of antitrust law).
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Why mobile application markets would not be such a market? Reading all the news about App Store on macrumors suggests that Apple does have dominant market position on that market.
 
sjo said:
Why mobile application markets would not be such a market? Reading all the news about App Store on macrumors suggests that Apple does have dominant market position on that market.
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Because it's an artificial "market." There are at least 6 or 7 such application markets, and Apple has nothing to do with them not doing well. And each is tied to one OS or cell carrier (with an exception or 2). Apple has only a monopoly on applications for ITS OWN phone. It has no such monopoly on application sales for OTHER phones. The market that matters to regulators is the device market, for which apple has nowhere near a monopoly.

Further, even if Apple had a monopoly in this imaginary market, they are leveraging it to destroy competition in what OTHER market?

No, what people are whining about is apple leveraging the success of it's appstore to prevent the success of other appstores. But if it already has a monopoly in the "appstore market," how are its actions hurting anything? And if it doesn't have such a monopoly, then there is no law against the actions it is taking.
 
heh

Kind of funny that Google is posting "Learn Objective C" links in this thread.

Make it an "ActionScript to Objective C" translation course, in five minutes or less, with a free toaster, and maybe, MAYBE, I'll click the link.
 
People! Do you not realize this is not just about Adobe!?!? Quit saying stupid things that assume that is all this is about. Perhaps that's who Jobs is really after, but there are TONS of valuable developers who are getting caught in the crossfire here who've never written a line of ActionScript.

Regardless of what the motivations are, this, in the end, is about telling developers they can't use modern tools of the trade.

As I've pointed out several times here, many of the top 100 games in the App store right now use code that would be banned by the new policy. These are not "sub-standard apps" as Jobs put it. Heck, some of them are the same Apps Jobs put up on his Keynote slideshow when he was announcing iPhone OS 4 and bragging about all the great apps (i.e. Touch Touch Revolution)! He is a hypocrite!

This is not going to improve the quality of apps in the Apps store. If anything, it will result in many of your favorite apps getting removed, if they actually enforce this. And none of these apps have anything to do with Adobe or Flash. Quit being mindless drone fanboys and get a clue!
 
iBug2 said:
Who "had" to move to windows for simply a 64bit photoshop? There's nothing you can't do in 32bit photoshop that 64bit enables you to do. Surely there's a small speed increase but that wouldn't cause anyone to migrate to a whole other platform instead of waiting for the next CS release.
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The common complaint you will get 32 bit Photoshop users stems from working on larger files with many layers. Has to do with that 4 GB ram limit per process thing.

Perhaps if you actually understood what 64 bit was about, you'd know this.

MorphingDragon said:
Learn what crash and burn means.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=crash and burn

Not everybody is on a 11MBS connection, hell a lot of the world doesnt even get over 1MBS outside the major cities.
Click to expand...

Bandwidth doesn't have much to do with Flash's ability to display content and output audio through your speakers.

And I know what Crash and Burn means, I administer about 50 or so C&B systems at work. Next up, let's do wordplay on Quality Assurance, Pre-Production and Regression Tests. :rolleyes:

Still, my Mac doesn't "crash and burn" running flash content.
 
So

Apple is pretty clear to Abode that Flash won't be allowed on the iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad.

Adobe attempt a "backdoor" implementation to get around this.

If, as someone above commented, the Flash to iPhoneOS feature creates Obj-C code, then there really is no problem for Adobe. But let's be honest, it's not going to do that.

There's a huge difference between using middleware (routines pre-built you call from your code) and using a "generator" type set-up, ala the proposed Adobe offering. Apple letting us know up front that they know this and will not play with it is a GOOD thing: maybe some folks will not waste good $$$$ on CS5 if they are correctly informed of what will/will not work.
 
How is this any different compared to developing for XBOX 360, Playstation 3, or the Nintendo Wii?

It isn't except for the fact that their SDKs cost a **** load more than the Apple's developer program.
 
ptysell said:
How is this any different compared to developing for XBOX 360, Playstation 3, or the Nintendo Wii?

It isn't except for the fact that their SDKs cost a **** load more than the Apple's developer program.
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MS, Sony and Nintendo don't give a rat's butt if you embed middleware, scripting engines, or Flash players in your applications so long as you pay them their vig. Which would be one way it's different.
 
cmaier said:
MS, Sony and Nintendo don't give a rat's butt if you embed middleware, scripting engines, or Flash players in your applications so long as you pay them their vig. Which would be one way it's different.
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That is not the point. They dictate the tools to use of THEIR closed platforms yet people don't bitch about that.
 
Attack on Android. Poor long term strategy.

Apple has grown so large its become its own worst enemy. More remiscent of Microsoft than of the Apple we know. They're now trying to protect their own turf rather than innovate and provide superior products.

iPhone app store was originally meant to protect the carrier's network and keep out malware. Not Apple blatantly wields it to keep out competitors and competitive products. By not allowing consumers to get their applications anywhere else, they assure they get 30% of ever dollar spent on applications for the iPhone and iPad.

The iPad is a powerful computer. Apple has purposely neutered it and limited its function by again forcing consumers to obtains apps only from the appstore. Again Apple can lock out anything or anyone it doesn't like for any reason all while skimming 30% of every dollar spent on apps. What happened to the original altrustic reasons protecting us? No mention anymore. Apple has grown used to the power.

While many see the change in terms as an attack on Adobe, I also see it as an attack on Google's Android. Rather than win on innovation they want to do whatever they can to make it harder for developers to write applications for Android. Apple is forcing developers to commit to the Apple platform and disallow use of tools to cross platform mobile applications.

The level of control Apple over consumers and developers makes Microsoft and Adobe seem like good guys. Its amazing that the public attempts to defend Apple's actions.

This is typical of a maturing large company. At the top of its game. Little innovation left. Sue your competitors, create walls around your products. Force people to use your products or else.

I think its very sad.

More notes on my blog as well. There I also mention how being more open has proved a better success strategy even for Apple.
 
ptysell said:
That is not the point. They dictate the tools to use of THEIR closed platforms yet people don't bitch about that.
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But that's my point. They do NOT dictate the tools to use. They provide tools to use, but if you want to use other tools they do not care so long as you pay them their cut.
 
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