If you're looking for a slower, uglier, less portable (4lb), more expensive laptop than a Macbook Air, go for it.In related news, Dell just released the "thinnest laptop." Looks like Apple has some relevant competition and needs to pick up the slack.
http://hothardware.com/News/Dell-Unleashes-the-Adamo/
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Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks
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However i do have a solution and i would like you to tell me if it is a good one or not, buy a powermac g4 off ebay and transfer video over firewire with that, then put it on my macbook? Is it a good idea?
I think that would probably work. Capture to iMovie or FCP, toss the junk, export the rest as DV to an external and hook your macbook to that.
You could get an iBook if you wanted portablity. Or an older Mac Mini.
I love Firewire, but I don't see the need for it on the Airport / Time Machine. Even USB is faster than they can stream it over the gigabit ethernet ports.
So apart from screen size, screen resolution, speakers, graphics card and expresscard slot?
Yup, it sure was because they needed to differentiate the two products.
Some people view the bigger screen size as a handicap, not a plus as it makes it bigger and not as portable, and tell me again why would a DJ/MC use a MBP instead of a MB? screen resolution isn't a big deal for that purpose, speakers aren't either since you're going to be using external, graphics card....express card slot....no need for either.
EDIT: Basically lack of fire wire pushes some of the pros that could easily use the MB to require a MBP instead.
None of those differentiate the products as much as FW/no FW. The aluminum MB is much closer product-wise to the MBP than previous versions were. By eliminating FW, Apple redefines a whole class of users as "pros" who need to buy the higher-margin product.
And if there were another reason for dropping FW I assume Apple would have made that public at some point. Instead, all we heard was a couple lame comments from Steve Jobs about how "all the latest camcorders have USB."
Hmm, I'm sorry to say but that seems like revisionist storytelling.
True, they did dumb down the MBP by losing one fw-port (just like they lost one in the MB) and swap the TI-chip for an Agere-chip – not to mention going all glossy to cater to the lowest common denominator-consumer.
Again, that is where your argument falls flat on its face.
That argument would have worked and been plausable, had Apple not included FW800 in the mac mini. If "fw users" equaled "pro users" what the hell is that connection doing in the Mac Mini?
What? So because no other comment other than a rewrite of "we're going to cater to iPod Crowd - only" were made and doesn't sit well with you, let's make up another reason that doesn't fit the facts?
It's not storytelling, it's my considered opinion.
Yes, and the MB's graphics are much closer to the MBP than previously, and the case design no longer differentiates them.
It's where Apple's argument falls on its face, not mine. FW goes on the mini to try to attract more buyers; FW comes off the MB so that more buyers aren't pulled away from the higher-margin MBP. It shows that these decisions are marketing-driven, and any distinction between "pro" and "consumer" is just arbitrary.
What? So because no other comment other than a rewrite of "we're going to cater to iPod Crowd - only" were made and doesn't sit well with you, let's make up another reason that doesn't fit the facts?
Huh? Jobs was asked point-blank why FW was removed from the MB. His answer was just what I said - "all current camcorders have USB." Aside from the fact that this is a totally lame excuse, if there had been some other reason, like (as some people have claimed) they couldn't fit a FW connector on the logic board, wouldn't he have just said that? The real reason, that it's just a ploy to increase profits at the expense of some customers losing an important feature, would be embarrassing to admit.
The lack of a FW port makes a bigger difference than all those things. No FW port means no FW HDDs, no FW cameras, no FW based video interfaces, no FW based audio interfaces, etc.,. There were a ton of people that didn't need the extra 'horse power' of the MBP but did need the FW interface so the MB made perfect sense (smaller, cheaper, but still fast enough to get the light, on-the-go work done). Apple recognized that the MB was stealing MBP sales so they yanked the FW port. Just like Apple killed the 12" PB because it was stealing sales from the 15" PB.
Lethal
I don't think that was his point. I think the point is that there are non-pro users who will have to go pro only because that's the only option for Firewire. It doesn't make them sudden pro users, but it forces them into the pro bracket of hardware because of the glaring omission in the non-pro line.
Or they can buy a new camera or audio interface. Either way, it reeks of premature pulling of this feature. I bought my non-pro FW audio interface a few months ago, it's still advertised on Apple's site, and yet it won't work with a Macbook.
http://www.apple.com/logicexpress/apogee/
Logic express (non-pro) + Apogee Duet (non-pro) + Aluminum Macbook (non-pro) = nothing. Get it? Non-pro user turns pro over a single feature.
I've invested a lot of money in firewire despite the fact that it's not much of a computing standard, but at least it was an Apple standard. Or so I thought.
I thoroughly endorse posting MacBook alternatives here. Especially if there's any indication of how well OS X runs and how well the FireWire (??) works.
The Dell with the eSATA interface has possibilities.
I have one external hard drive with eSATA, but all the rest are FireWire.
The other area I'm interested in is audio interfaces. Some of the high end interfaces might have eSATA, but anything in my price range has only FireWire.
Another disturbing trend was the new iMac having only one FireWire interface and substituting another USB for the second FireWire interface. Ideally I'd like 3 FireWire interfaces. Two was not so bad (lucky I got my iMac when I did), One is a dangerous trend the WRONG direction.
Make sure you send your feedback to Apple, folks. Don't let them think they can take FireWire away from desktops, too.
In the meantime, keep buying the plastic MacBook. Apple listens to money, not whinges.
The Dell with the eSATA interface has possibilities.
I have one external hard drive with eSATA, but all the rest are FireWire.
The other area I'm interested in is audio interfaces. Some of the high end interfaces might have eSATA, but anything in my price range has only FireWire.
Another disturbing trend was the new iMac having only one FireWire interface and substituting another USB for the second FireWire interface. Ideally I'd like 3 FireWire interfaces. Two was not so bad (lucky I got my iMac when I did), One is a dangerous trend the WRONG direction.
Make sure you send your feedback to Apple, folks. Don't let them think they can take FireWire away from desktops, too.
In the meantime, keep buying the plastic MacBook. Apple listens to money, not whinges.
Revisionistic story tellers believe their stories too (I guess).It's not storytelling, it's my considered opinion.
True, but you seem to ignore my point. Namely, that going from that and to suggest they wanted to pretend that firewire is a "pro" feature is a logical leap with no basis in facts. In other words: It's pure speculation, and the inclusion of firewire 800 in the Mac Mini proves that argument wrong.
Since when? Apple never said that Firewire was a "pro-only feature".
Yes. And hence one cannot argue that Apple has decided that FW is a pro feature. If they had, they wouldn't have included in a very non-professional product.
Yes, as I said a rewrite of the sentence "We will ONLY cater to the iPod Crowd (i.e. lowest common denominator mass consumer)"
Hmm, I think you think that I'm arguing something else than I am.
Yes, and that there is nothing "professional" about the MacBook Pro would make the well-off part of the iPod Crowd stop buying it, would hurt too.
Lethal, you propably don't remember, but I am one the people who have moved on. I just ordered the Thinkpad I wanted, ultimately because of Apples whims of pissing up the back of my livelyhood (which necessitates the need of firewire).
I didn't think he meant that, so no worries. Besides, any pro user who works with audio will not even have the option of upgrading. Well, they will, but they will have to change the OS and apps in order to do that.
I am in no way disagreeing with the notion that is was a pisspoor decision on Apple's part.
Yup.
[rant]Me too. Their quality was dwindling, their "Pro apps" gettin buggier and buggier, their OS likewise (while removing feature), but the final straw was the nixing of firewire across the board (yes, changing to the agere chipset amounts to nixing –*You can't even use an Expresscard FW-adaptor while running OS X, but have to boot into windows where it, not surprisingly, works excellently).
[/rant]
Do they use the same chipset in the iMacs, Mac Pros, and Minis?
(I'm done trying to figure out Apple's reasons for what they do especially when it doesn't matter and doesn't change the results)
To tell you the truth, I don't know. I have been using laptops for many years. The only time I use a desktop is when I happen to have to use Dalet and then it's on PCs.
OMG Tosser doesn't know something? hell has officially frozen over
j/k
According to wikipedia it seems like by the next release of Macs it could possibly have FW1600 or FW3200, is it likely that the chipset for these from Agere will have the same problem? Does it require a different chipset or could they use the same chipset as the current ones in the MBP?
i am going to have to agree with Steve on this one. i have never once needed firewire - however other's setups may vary.
Well I've never needed panties before, doesn't mean that no one does. All people are wanting is options, having the option to use FW doesn't hurt any consumer.
LOL, at least I don't have to go to wikipedia ...
Well, the two revisions Agere have had in Apple laptops have both been subpar, even though they're claimed to be "within spec".
It does require a different chipset. However, that chipset could be sourced from Texas Instruments – as the "old ones" was.
However, even if they were to use TI chipsets in future revisions, that's far from any sort of guarantee that FW would work properly.
That speculation is based on Expresscards with the FW TI-chipsets which _still_ doesn't work properly when plugged into a MBP (mostly not even recognising it, and if it does, it sure doesn't like to be connected to anything audio related).
Then, when you boot into XP or Vista, suddenly it works as if if it was an onboard fw-port with no problems whatsoever. To me that suggests that the OS itself has been crippled - intentionally or unintentionally.
I don't know what's scariest, but suffice to say, in the end, it's just another reason to move somewhere else and stay the hell away from what has become The Ipod Company" [sic] .
So, if you haven't driven a car by yourself, being able to do so is is utterly unnecessary. Ever been abroad? No? Well, then there is no reason for anyone to go abroad. Man, to think that people still think like that
I'd be interested to find out which chipset is being used in the new imacs/minis/mac pros. If it is the Agere it's another argument for my next desktop to be a hackintosh, that's also partly due to the refurb octo 2.8s being nigh on impossible to find in the UK.
P.S. I can't believe this thread is still going.
P.P.S. If any owners of the newer models mentioned above have some spare time, could you confirm if they have the TI firewire chipset of the Agere one, it'd be most appreciated by a great number of users.
LOL, I have no memory, but I know how to use google and wikipedia so I'm OKLOL, at least I don't have to go to wikipedia ...
Is this a problem with the FW chipset or the expresscard? Plus does Agere have a FW1600 or FW3200 chipset currently? Does anyone know if these have the same error? I guess that would be kind of hard to find out currently since you'd have to have the FW1600/3200 chipset and Mac OS X built onto a hackintosh, which leaves lots of room for error, just kind of thinking in text, I tend to do that a lot.
It's okay I just needed some sort of come-back, no matter how pitiful it wasLOL, I have no memory, but I know how to use google and wikipedia so I'm OK
Neither. When I talk about an Expresscard-FW adaptor, they have the FW chipset on the card. Those cards either have the TIchipset (good) or the Agere (bad) like inside the MBP themselves.
What makes me think that this is NOT a problem with the Texas Instruments-equipped Expresscard adaptors is they work fine on PCs and they work just as well on MacBook Pros, provided you boot into Windows.
Well, FW1600 is propably developed, but that matters little, since you can't buy anything FW1600 or FW3200.
No, noone knows. There aren't FW1600 and FW3200 "in the wild".
Actually, had they been out there for us to buy, it would be pretty easy to pinpoint. You could simply swap the card and test numerous cards.
The little test of booting into windows where the FW TI-chipset in the adaptor works, more than suggests that not only are the agere chipset crappola as we knew beforehand, but that in addition to that, something in OS X is preventing the proper use of Expresscard FW adaptors, even if they have the TI-chipset.
That does seem odd, not a big problem I guess for Apple as a whole since only one of the current models has a Expresscard, but still it's a Pro machine that is at least $2000, it should have a fully functioning Expresscard slot that works in native OS with anything built to spec.
Yes. So much for the argument "Well, I like Macs because the 'close integration' ensures that stuff 'just works'".
Seriously, it should be pretty embarrassing for Apple, but they evidently don't care one way or another.
Come to think of it, sort of the same problem exist(ed) with regards to USB:
http://www.sonosax.ch/recorders/minir82/minir82_important_notice.html
From the above link:
(their english could be better ...)
Anyone wonder why I grew tired of workarounds?
Apple notebook sales are down 7%, PC notebooks up 36%… Source
I´d like a small portable and was ready for the MacBook, despite it´s glossy screen which I really don´t like. But without FireWire it´s a no go. The 15" is a tad too large for my daily commute, only if it came with matte display option I´d be willing to put up with it.
I´m thinking a 2nd hand blackbook 2.4 is my best option, sadly.
Is that growth down 7% or sales overall? Last time mac sales growth was down, but still growing nonetheless.
The article doesnt do a great job of detailing exactly what is down.