Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

[BenRoethig]

I generally agree with Steve on this one. Most people are throwing their old DV camcorders away and replacing them HD models anyways, to take advantage of the huge boom in HDTVs.

Many of the new HD camcorders record directly to memory card, and that is the direction the industry is moving for consumer camcorders. It makes it easier to import and share:

• Drag and drop from the memory card
• Directly upload to YouTube, Vimeo, etc.
• Directly drag files to email
• No need to import and re-encode
• Many cameras also support basic, lossless, editing in camera

Examples are models from Aiptek, Sanyo (HD700/800, HD1000/HD1010), and Sony TG1 on the high end.

That really doesn't help because Apple doesn't include a memory card reader either.

 

[notjustjay]

To be honest, some of the loudest complaints are from professionals looking to use a consumer grade laptop to do professional work.

Actually I'm arguing precisely the opposite.

I don't work in the video industry at all. I own a camcorder essentially to take vacation footage, and edit videos. I'm a consumer, just like you.

But, I happen to be pretty good at it, and have a pretty good eye for quality, and am willing to spend a bit more money on a decent camera. Not one of those $150 Aiptek things.

So Apple is telling me that I'm not a consumer anymore? Because I care about nicer quality video, suddenly I'm lumped in with the professional video editors? Flattering, maybe, but not practical.

Imagine that iPhoto only worked with pocket-sized point-and-shoot cameras. Imagine that as soon as you buy a digital SLR, Apple needs you to buy Aperture so you can work with your "pro" equipment. Does that make sense? Is there no room for a consumer/amateur/hobbyist who wants to go a step beyond and learn about the craft, buy better equipment, and do a little more, without suddenly classifying them as a "pro" user?

 

[corinhorn]

Then why do most Windows notebooks over $500 include a firewire port?

I was poking fun at some of the justifying we have heard from people. Some don't give jack **** about Apple removing FireWire from the MacBook. They say something like "Apple removed FireWire because Windows users don't use it and don't even know what it is."

Bull crap if you ask me. Like you said, there are many cheap-o Billy Boxes that have FireWire and to think Windows users don't use them is grossly inaccurate.

 

[Schizoid]

No, the cancer treatment affected his judgment and now he is angry to the world. That is his way to manifesting.

Hi,

Look at my slab of ALUMINUM, LOOK AT IT!!!
No I'm not dying, I'm very MUCH ALIVE and quite WELL, MENTALLY...
I'm now gonna hand you over to JONY IVE, he's got a great preeesentation about SLABS! of ALUMINUM....

HURRY UP AT THE BACK THERE! STOP FONDLING MY SLABS!!!

Steve

 

[diamond.g]

I mean, since when did 400 dollars become 'just' 400 dollars? Seriously?

Since Apple decided that if you want FW you have to get the MBP. Seriously.

 

[polaris20]

I guess my major question is: is what Steve says true?

I have a mini-DV cam from the late 90s that only has firewire, so I honestly don't know....

No, it is not true. While I personally have an HD Sony camcorder that transfers the full files to the comp via USB2.0, Canon for example still has 3 out of 9 consumer HD models recording to dv tape, and thus use FW for transmittal.

Actually I'm arguing precisely the opposite.

I don't work in the video industry at all. I own a camcorder essentially to take vacation footage, and edit videos. I'm a consumer, just like you.

But, I happen to be pretty good at it, and have a pretty good eye for quality, and am willing to spend a bit more money on a decent camera. Not one of those $150 Aiptek things.

So Apple is telling me that I'm not a consumer anymore? Because I care about nicer quality video, suddenly I'm lumped in with the professional video editors? Flattering, maybe, but not practical.

Imagine that iPhoto only worked with pocket-sized point-and-shoot cameras. Imagine that as soon as you buy a digital SLR, Apple needs you to buy Aperture so you can work with your "pro" equipment. Does that make sense? Is there no room for a consumer/amateur/hobbyist who wants to go a step beyond and learn about the craft, buy better equipment, and do a little more, without suddenly classifying them as a "pro" user?

I'm really starting to get the idea people on this board have no idea there are better quality USB2.0 video cams than an Aiptek or a Flip Mino. My camera does a full 1920x1080 MPEG2 recording onto a hard drive. Is it as good as a prosumer cam? No. Is it better than a Mino? Yes. As I said, 6 of 9 Canon HD cams area also flash or hard disk based, thus use USB2.0.

I wish people would actually look to see what's out there before making comments like this.

 

[KALLT]

I can't use my camcorder, that I bought a half year ago, anymore. Not everyone spends money on a brandnew HD-camcorder, when a simple 200 EUR camcorder is enough. Unfortunately, most of them don't have USB. I actually can live with it, because I don't use the camcorder very often and still have my old laptop to import videos.

But I think Apple is going the wrong way with this. There is plenty room for a FireWire port and the MacBook is expensive enough to include it. If I spend so much money on a notebook then it just needs to have all important ports, even for consumers. I concur with some of you that this is just a marketing trick to 'force' some people to buy a more expensive MacBook Pro. Since that has no matte screen, it's definitely not an option for me.

What angers me the most is this ignorant e-mail message.

 

[deannnnn]

As someone who just recently bought an HD camera that uses USB to transfer, I can say that I really don't think USB is fast enough. It takes longer to import my video than it would to play and capture it.

Just about all MiniDV cameras require FireWire to import.
Just about all hard disk cameras (HD or not) require USB to import.

And let me just add, that B&H has 28 MiniDV cameras still on sale, and MiniDV is the most popular video recording format in the United States. It may be dying out, but just like Multimedia Messaging, it isn't gone yet.

 

[Shagrat]

As a musician I can say there is no way you can buy a good guitar for $400

The ones I have cost anywhere from $1500 to $3000

My Squier Precision, and Telecaster both cost me less than (the equivalent) of $400 and they are both regular gigging instruments for me.

If I COULD afford a PRS, or American series Fender bass, and of course i would LIKE to be able to justify the expense, then I might, but you reply just reeks of snobbery.

 

[underwater]

firewire is dead

I would have cut firewire on the lower-end laptops also. Very small number of people use it... cost reduction is more important for Apple's current strategy of converting low-end PC laptop users to apple... it's the $ sweatspot.

Firewire is already dead in the consumer markets... it's really as simple at that. USB 2.0 won several years ago.

FWIW, my Sony A1U HDV prosumer camera is Firewire only, but I would never edit HD on a lower-end MacBook.

 

[BJMRamage]

Besides missing FireWire, all the new laptops also are MISSING a 3.5" Floppy Drive!!

OK, it's been gone for a while but look at the uproar that brought about. While I still think FireWire is good, you also do not need to have the latest low-end MacBook either. You can have an older one that has FireWire right?

My lastt PC had FireWire. I liked when my ipod was FireWire but then I bought my wife a Nano (or maybe it was my next ipod) and it used USB, not FireWire. Slower, yes, but maybe Apple thought to just go with USB since a lot of stuff was heading that way.

 

[Brother Michael]

Imo the Firewire removal has little to do with Video. It has everything to do with Audio. The current (and previous gen) Macbooks are extremely good at audio processing, it has plenty of power. I see more then several 'pro' musicians with MBs instead of MBPro, for the simple fact that the only thing MBP really had going for it (from an Audio perspective) was a slightly faster processor and more ports + one extra screen for studio use. For AUDIO you can get by, for live use and really even studio use, with just one firewire port (usually just an external HDD, just watch some concerts and be amazed) and have a blast. It is true, USB devices can be good, but the firewire audio devices are fantastic. If firewire is 'legacy' then entire inventories in prominent music stores just became ancient history according to a previous poster. FW is not at all legacy, it's basicaly the only viable option for AUDIO. Have you seriously ever heard of someone buying audio HD's and related accessories that are USB 2.0?

The reasoning behind this 'If you can afford a guitar then you can afford a MBPro' is just beyond my logic. For 400 dollars you can buy an entire new musical instrument, 400 dollars is a heap of money, 400 dollars gets you freaking LOGIC, a PRO APP, 400 dollars buys you two iPhones for the non-musicians... I mean, since when did 400 dollars become 'just' 400 dollars? Seriously?

this!

This is the best reasoning I have heard against the FW400 removal. A lot of the music shops around me all have a few MacBooks in them connected to various recording equipment.

They are small, compact and powerful enough for audio.

As a musician I can say there is no way you can buy a good guitar for $400

The ones I have cost anywhere from $1500 to $3000

good for you. a $400 Tradition Guitar is fine enough for me.

Because Apple is focusing more at Windows switchers rather than its customer base. Apparently, FireWire scares and confuses Windows users.

I found this humorous thanks.

 

[Peace]

My Squier Precision, and Telecaster both cost me less than (the equivalent) of $400 and they are both regular gigging instruments for me.

If I COULD afford a PRS, or American series Fender bass, and of course i would LIKE to be able to justify the expense, then I might, but you reply just reeks of snobbery.

Sorry. I didn't know you played Bass. I use acoustic guitars and the good ones. The only ones I will use are expensive. No snobbery involved. Top of the line acoustic guitars just happen to be expensive.

 

[dernhelm]

I would just click on in the the refurb store. Kind of silly to spend $500 just to get firewire. At that point you may look at a different camera. I would go to the refurb store.

Good point. Myself, I was more leaning towards simply not upgrading at all for the forseeable future.

Of course, there are a lot of options, including the refurb store, which I just used to purchase my Sister-in-Law a new iMac. But there is also the old-model MacBook, which still does have FW (and will still be a huge step up speed wise from my G4 PB).

My point is that I was just about primed to make a purchase and now I'm rethinking it altogether. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm not the only person in that boat. Apple may well have differentiated itself from the competition by the their industrial design, but they have also differentiated themselves in a negative way with this omission.

And while a simple FW port may seem like it is just no big deal, if it is required for what I use my computer for, then I need it - and the omission of the port means I have to think twice.

 

[KALLT]

I would have cut firewire on the lower-end laptops also. Very small number of people use it... cost reduction is more important for Apple's current strategy of converting low-end PC laptop users to apple... it's the $ sweatspot.

Firewire is already dead in the consumer markets... it's really as simple at that. USB 2.0 won several years ago.

Do you have some sources for this?

 

[corinhorn]

So, here is a potential conundrum. What if my current MacBook (with FireWire) began to have unfixable problems and AppleCare replaced the machine. Replacing it with the new MacBook would be pointless for me since all my peripherals are FireWire. Would I get a MacBook pro as a replacement then?

 

[BenRoethig]

I can't believe you guys want to edit video on a 13 inch screen! What a nightmare. I totally agree with Unity's post. It not like some one was making you buy the consuer level macbook. And most of you probably don't even own it yet. SO DON'T BUY IT! Jobs is not making your equipment obselete. Only you are if you choose to buy a computer that doesn't match the rest of you setup.

The Macbook is not an entry level consumer level notebook despite what Jobs may say.

 

[polaris20]

FWIW, my Sony A1U HDV prosumer camera is Firewire only, but I would never edit HD on a lower-end MacBook.

Why not? Processor, disk, and RAM capabilities are the same or very close as to that of the MBP.

The MB is definitely a capable pro video editing machine, had they not removed FW.

 

[Shagrat]

Sorry. I didn't know you played Bass. I use acoustic guitars and the good ones. The only ones I will use are expensive. No snobbery involved. Top of the line acoustic guitars just happen to be expensive.

And the Tele is a 6 string, for good measure.

 

[Shagrat]

So, here is a potential conundrum. What if my current MacBook (with FireWire) began to have unfixable problems and AppleCare replaced the machine. Replacing it with the new MacBook would be pointless for me since all my peripherals are FireWire. Would I get a MacBook pro as a replacement then?

Somehow I doubt it!

 

[CmdrLaForge]

I personally believe it has to do with the increased cost coming through the new mfg process. They looked at a way how to keep margins up and had to cut features to achieve this. Pretty normal product management. Was this a good decision in favor of the alu body ?

 

[polaris20]

Sorry. I didn't know you played Bass. I use acoustic guitars and the good ones. The only ones I will use are expensive. No snobbery involved. Top of the line acoustic guitars just happen to be expensive.

Unless you buy a Seagull cheap Canadian acoustics for the WIN! lol

I love my Artist series. But I see your point about expensive guits.....I have a few myself.

 

[Shagrat]

... but maybe Apple thought to just go with USB since a lot of stuff was heading that way.

So why not drop FW from the MBP, too????

 

[thedoctorlee]

Eliminating FireWire was a very bad idea.

Am I missing something? YOU CAN STILL GET AN APPLE NOTEBOOK WITH FIREWIRE.

Everyone is complaining about how "only consumer video cameras have USB". Newsflash... the MB is a consumer notebook. If you have a "pro" camera, then buy a MB PRO. I really don't get it.... it's so simple. Apple offers a bunch of other computes with Firewire. Not only that... you have the low-end MB that has firewire (for $999).

 

[BenRoethig]

Yawn. I remember the same moans when Apple left off ADB and SCSI on the iMac. With hindsight was that a bad decision - No. USB, it's the right decision for the future.

There's a big difference between a $30 keyboard and a $500 camera.