Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

[kabunaru]

I was going to get a MB

And now I still am. My HD camera uses SD cards and/or USB2 so it's no big deal for me and I haven't used firewire on my PowerBook at all since I replaced my firewire external HDD with a USB2 one. I've got no need for it at all so I'll still be getting one and won't think twice about firewire

Don't think I've ever used it on my 2 year old iMac either...

So how much of a difference would it make using USB2 for video production than FireWire?

 

[localoid]

I have had major problems with Firewire on the last generations of MacBook and MacBook Pros.

We use them for portable audio recording.

Problem has been, Apple has not allowed enough current on the bus to power external audio interfaces. Very few will power from Firewire, first generation Intel notebooks power most interfaces fine. USB, however does not give enough power to make the most simple and low end audio device work, and what decent audio interfaces use USB is zero.

We have a few Focusrite and Mackie interfaces, all need mains power on the newer machines, which isn't an option when you are mobile.

I was expecting FW3200 on the MBP's too, still the old FW800.

I don't know if this is related to your problem, but Apple screwed up Firewire on some models of the MacBooks and MacBook Pros when they started using the (el cheapo) Agere firewire chip instead of sticking with the (proven) TI chipset.

I don't think I can remember anyone ever getting a straight answer from Apple on that entire subject.

 

[synth3tik]

All that talk about the enviroment and how green Apple is getting.. what a joke Throw away, buy new, throw away, buy new,,,,

Apple is not really green. They just need to look it. They were being ripped apart by the critics about how ungreen they were.

I don't think though that excluding firewire helps become green.

 

[BenRoethig]

Do you think Steve Jobs should step down as a leader now?
Johnathan Ive should be the new leader now.

Ive and Jobs are on the same wavelength. They need someone who will respect Apple's design philosophy while brining practicality and common sense to the equations. Ive is more an artist than a computer designer. A some of his best designs (Cubs, Mini, air) have been less than ideal as computers because he took things a step or two too far.

 

[0098386]

So much of a difference would it make using USB2 for video production than FireWire?

Pardon?
Technically there is no difference. It's just a digital file traveling through cables. USB2 is faster on paper but Firewire has a better sustained speed. It's no skin off my nose as I don't care for the tech, just the end result.

 

[kabunaru]

I might see this if a lot of people complain:
MacBook gets FireWire 800
MacBook Pro gets FireWire 3200

Now, that would be surprising.

 

[iBungie]

USB to Firewire adapter cable

Does anyone know what a cable like this might achieve?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000M93PWY

Some posters have suggested those of us who miss the Firewire port on the MB should use a USB/Firewire adapter.

Anyone ever tried one of these cables or anything similar?

 

[cube]

Am I missing something? YOU CAN STILL GET AN APPLE NOTEBOOK WITH FIREWIRE.

Everyone is complaining about how "only consumer video cameras have USB". Newsflash... the MB is a consumer notebook. If you have a "pro" camera, then buy a MB PRO. I really don't get it.... it's so simple. Apple offers a bunch of other computes with Firewire. Not only that... you have the low-end MB that has firewire (for $999).

How many times do we have to repeat it? FireWire is uber-CONSUMER. Most people with a (cheap) camcorder have FireWire on it.

 

[corinhorn]

You'd probably get the $999 MB. I believe it was the previous generation's top MB.

It wasn't, My current MB with FireWire is a 2.4 Ghz.

 

[Brother Michael]

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...o_outrage_over_macbooks_missing_firewire.html

Apparently, the email from Steve Jobs was real and there has been another email sent to the original complainer.

 

[Evangelion]

SJ is right. But my cam is a miniDV and all it has is firewire. I don't really understand their reasoning to remove FW - new MB has a ton of space to spare and it can't be very expensive...

You are oversimplifying the matter by quite a bit. Consider this:

a) there isn't really that much space on the case. The current ports end right where the battery starts. Would you like a smaller battery instead so you could have an additional port there?

b) No chipset has support for FireWire, it needs an external controller. And that means another chip on the PCB (and that costs extra), and that means bigger and more complicated PCB (which also costs extra).

What SJ says is right. Sure, there might still be some FW-only cameras out there, but those are in the minority. Cameras that use tape do use FW, but why mess around with tapes?

What if you already have tape-using camera? Well, there are few options:

a) Don't upgrade yet. Wait until you upgrade your camera as well. You are not required to buy the latest MacBook

b) If you want to buy, buy the white MacBook. It's still a good machine, even if it's "yesterday's technology". Or buy a MBP. Fact remains that you have both expensive and inexpensive options to choose from.

That said, I do wish that Apple would put more USB-ports on the machine. Since we are going to rely more and more on USB, we need more of those ports.

 

[techpr]

Last month I bought a Drobo FW800 just for the Firewire 800 connection and Apple just drop Firewire from the MB. I have a Feb white 2.4Ghz MB and my next laptop will not be a new MB

 

[hernando57]

FireWire S800T (IEEE 1394c-2006)
FireWire is enhanced to share gigabit Category 5e cable
FireWire is enhanced to share gigabit Category 5e cable

IEEE 1394c-2006 was published on June 8, 2007.

It provides the following improvements

* A new port specification which provides 800 Mbit/s over the same RJ45 connectors with Category 5e cable which is specified in IEEE 802.3 clause 40 (gigabit Ethernet over copper twisted pair)
* An automatic negotiation that allows the same port to connect to either IEEE Std 1394 or IEEE 802.3 (Ethernet) devices.
* Various minor updates to IEEE 1394b

Though the potential for a combined Ethernet and FireWire RJ45 port is intriguing, as of December 2007, there are no products or chipsets which include this capability.


Am i the only one who has a feeling that this where apple is going with the firewire?

 

[cube]

a) there isn't really that much space on the case. The current ports end right where the battery starts. Would you like a smaller battery instead so you could have an additional port there?

There IS space. They could have easily put the connector in the back, instead of altogether removing it. As usual, Apple goes overboard with fancy design.

 

[Artful Dodger]

No, it is not true. While I personally have an HD Sony camcorder that transfers the full files to the comp via USB2.0, Canon for example still has 3 out of 9 consumer HD models recording to dv tape, and thus use FW for transmittal.



I'm really starting to get the idea people on this board have no idea there are better quality USB2.0 video cams than an Aiptek or a Flip Mino. My camera does a full 1920x1080 MPEG2 recording onto a hard drive. Is it as good as a prosumer cam? No. Is it better than a Mino? Yes. As I said, 6 of 9 Canon HD cams area also flash or hard disk based, thus use USB2.0.

I wish people would actually look to see what's out there before making comments like this.

If I read your reply(s) correct I get the feeling you don't mind either as your able to have both of best worlds, which is good While I have thought about using some type of solid state recording method (Canons new line-up) I have to consider the reality of what has happened for the below reason.

I actually have a good reason for the FW and non HDD camcorders that use USB 2.0. I film clients that the video footage of their exams almost always end up being used in court and then the tape gets sent out for testing (6 out of 10 times for questions of tampering) and every counter, by the other side that used a HDD based camcorder has been thrown out because there is a chance that the file could have been altered. I'm not saying it's true or not because I only record, make dvd copies for all parties so that's the end result with me removed from said situation. I don't and have never actually edited anything from a HDD camcorder and I would never claim to know more than what has been past on to me. I only find out the end result(s). I have a fine iMac with FW but using a MacBook with FW and using iDVD OneStep on the go has been nice at times. If I or anyone else bought a new camcorder within the last year that has FW but can not use USB 2.0 seems to be a pretty steep thought to ask or have someone re-buy because "ONE" company has a change of plans. Not to mention all the FW drives I bought and I can assume others bought as well.
I'm not saying your either right nor wrong as each has it's own place but one FW got removed from the MBP leaving one FW so why not have one each for a MacBook

 

[dejo]

Last month I bought a Drobo FW800 just for the Firewire 800 connection and Apple just drop Firewire from the MB. I have a Feb white 2.4Ghz MB and my next laptop will not be a new MB

MacBooks never had a FW800 connection. That was exclusive to the MacBook Pros.

 

[Evangelion]

Incorrect. Hard drives were the first mass thing that came out on firewire and there are many around. I have a lot of firewire drives. Apple shouldn't be dropping an important interface like firewire.

I too have a bunch of FireWire-HD's. And every single one of them also has USB-ports.

 

[Adjei]

As a long time Apple customer I've seen them do this over and over during the past three decades. They introduce or promote some great interface and then later abandon it after lots of people have equipment that uses that. It is very annoying. I won't be buying a MacBook. I need Firewire.

So get a MBP or an old macbook.

 

[Evangelion]

There IS space. They could have easily put the connector in the back, instead of altogether removing it. As usual, Apple goes overboard with fancy design.

How do you open the display if you have a cable sticking out the back?

 

[199708]

This was my chance to make the switch, my current laptop of about 5 years wants to retire. but the amount i use my firewire I'd be crazy to give that up as well.

coping files from USBhdd to another USBhdd, both connected at the same time just wont work at all, takes hours on end for a few gig. so i use 1 firewire, and 1 USB.
Also I use the mini-firewire connection on my Sharp LCD and laptop to my TV and record directly to my laptop.

looks like someone is trying to control our/my freedom.

btw, 15inch is out of the question, using one now, and Im after something more portable.


there goes apples "it just works" line. IT DOESN'T ANYMORE.
with an overpriced laptop they couldnt afford to put in that extra 5cent connection.

 

[Adjei]

No, the cancer treatment affected his judgment and now he is angry to the world. That is his way to manifesting.

That is a very evil statement, how would you like if you were in his situation and had idiots making these kinds of statements about you.

 

[unwinded]

Incorrect. Hard drives were the first mass thing that came out on firewire and there are many around. I have a lot of firewire drives. Apple shouldn't be dropping an important interface like firewire.

Uhhh... No I'm not incorrect. Firewire's major use has been for DV and professional audio, not for hard drives. Sure, firewire hard drives have always been available but they aren't very common. Yes you can still buy them but often they also have a USB jack on them as well. And finally, hard drives don't have a very reliable lifespan. If you have a bunch of firewire hard drives laying around that are more than five years old I wouldn't trust them except for data you don't mind losing.

 

[techpr]

Please READ SLOW

MacBooks never had a FW800 connection. That was exclusive to the MacBook Pros.

Please READ SLOWLY, I know that the old MB does not have FW800 but I can use FW400 mode. My complain in that I can't use my Drobo FW800 with the new MB.

 

[cube]

How do you open the display if you have a cable sticking out the back?

Since when has that been a problem for PCs??

 

[Adjei]

I would have cut firewire on the lower-end laptops also. Very small number of people use it... cost reduction is more important for Apple's current strategy of converting low-end PC laptop users to apple... it's the $ sweatspot.

Firewire is already dead in the consumer markets... it's really as simple at that. USB 2.0 won several years ago.

FWIW, my Sony A1U HDV prosumer camera is Firewire only, but I would never edit HD on a lower-end MacBook.

Well said.