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Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

that's kind of a crappy answer. why not just say "it would have increased costs on the macbook" or "we just wanted to piss you off so you'd buy the 15" mbp"
 
unwinded said:
That looks expensive. If somebody buys that, they should probably not be buying the 13" MacBook directed at consumers ...
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Think again. The quality of the recording is going to be the same either the MacBook or MacBook Pro. Many of the people buying that device would probably have a desktop system and be using the laptop for (perhaps occasions) portable use. The (old) MacBook would work just as well as a MacBook Pro at the same CPU clock speed, and cost less. Plus it's smaller than the MBP. What's not to understand?

The _only_ people in the music world that think of laptops being either "pro" or "consumer" are some Apple folks who let Steve do their thinking for them. The Apple "pro" concept is marketing hype.
 
underwater said:
I would have cut firewire on the lower-end laptops also. Very small number of people use it... cost reduction is more important for Apple's current strategy of converting low-end PC laptop users to apple... it's the $ sweatspot.

Firewire is already dead in the consumer markets... it's really as simple at that. USB 2.0 won several years ago.

FWIW, my Sony A1U HDV prosumer camera is Firewire only, but I would never edit HD on a lower-end MacBook.
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so what about all these FW audio interfaces...

...many of which are inexpensive, but would sit very nicely alongside an MB with FW???

There are other uses, as i have said before, for FW apart from Pro(sumer) Video...

So that means that if my current (nearly)3 year old MB goes and dies on me, I will have to move up to an MBP at £1400 rather than an MB at £950, which actually i couldn't really afford, although i would have probably bought one anyway.

Or as a rather "let them eat cake" style reply in an earlier post suggested..."buy a current MB with FW"

This would have been so simple. Put a single FW400 on the MB, and an FW800 on the MBP. Cost to apple, a few cents per machine.


NO. This is simply to try to ensure that as many current MB users as possible will be forced to spend a lot more money on a Pro just to get the same connectivity.
 
unwinded said:
Firewire's main purpose has been video capture since it's inception. Firewire hard drives might be technically better than their USB 2.0 counterparts but you really don't see any around.
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Incorrect. Hard drives were the first mass thing that came out on firewire and there are many around. I have a lot of firewire drives. Apple shouldn't be dropping an important interface like firewire.
 
And what about musicians?

What about all those musicians who own a FireWire soundcard?
Are they supposed to buy new ones just because Apple decides to let FireWire die in their notebook computers?
I am not sure if an USB2-to-FireWire adaptor will work with these tricky cards.
This is an insane move.
I personally only know people working with Macbook / Macbook Pro computers on stage...
 
notjustjay said:
Actually I'm arguing precisely the opposite.

I don't work in the video industry at all. I own a camcorder essentially to take vacation footage, and edit videos. I'm a consumer, just like you.

But, I happen to be pretty good at it, and have a pretty good eye for quality, and am willing to spend a bit more money on a decent camera. Not one of those $150 Aiptek things.

So Apple is telling me that I'm not a consumer anymore? Because I care about nicer quality video, suddenly I'm lumped in with the professional video editors? Flattering, maybe, but not practical.

Imagine that iPhoto only worked with pocket-sized point-and-shoot cameras. Imagine that as soon as you buy a digital SLR, Apple needs you to buy Aperture so you can work with your "pro" equipment. Does that make sense? Is there no room for a consumer/amateur/hobbyist who wants to go a step beyond and learn about the craft, buy better equipment, and do a little more, without suddenly classifying them as a "pro" user?
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Sure, it is ridiculous. But Apple has been trying to push prosumers (which is what you're really considered) off of the consumer product lines for some time. The major shift from iMovie HD to iMovie '08 is one indicator. No Final Cut Studio support is another. A former coworker's son was told by an Apple Genius that he wasn't supposed to use GarageBand on his 3 year old iMac, and that he should upgrade to the Pro line!

This dropping firewire thing seems both premature and squarely directed at pushing the prosumer market into the higher bracket. You're right, it's not practical and its not even sensible, but there seems to be a major shift from considering their audience Rip-Mix-Burn producers to iTunes Store digital download consumers.

And, as sad as it is, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple ultimately decided to push in the absurd direction you described for digital photography.
 
Steve does not care.

Most of your here need to get a clue. Steve doesn't care about you, only your money. He knows that no matter how much most of you complain, you will most likely do one of two things:

1.) Suck it up and buy a MBP

2.) Keep you old MB, stop buying fw equipment, and at a later date buy another MB.

Win-Win for him and apple. I laugh at all of you who say he doesn't know what he is doing. How much money does he have? More than all of us together 100x over? Do you really think he got it by making bad decisions? Nope, he got it because no matter what he does, you still buy his stuff. You better believe that if MB sales dropped 50% in the next month because of this, there would immediately be another update to address the issue. There isn't going to be, and sales won't drop. Get over it.

A co-worker of mine has a window placard that says "Your silly little opinion has been duly noted" I bet that's how Steve feels about us.
 
Peace said:
Sorry. I didn't know you played Bass. I use acoustic guitars and the good ones. The only ones I will use are expensive. No snobbery involved. Top of the line acoustic guitars just happen to be expensive.
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My problem with this, is that you could make the same statement about the MacBook vs the MacBook Pro.

However, what if I don't want/need top of the line? What if Mid-Range was good enough for me? I am not trying to make music a career so I don't need the best of the best, but what if I was trying to make music as hobby and make a few bucks while I am at it.

A MacBook works just fine for that at almost half the cost.

You do and that's fine, me I can't afford that nor do I need it.

Bentov said:
Most of your here need to get a clue. Steve doesn't care about you, only your money. He knows that no matter how much most of you complain, you will most likely do one of two things:

1.) Suck it up and buy a MBP

2.) Keep you old MB, stop buying fw equipment, and at a later date buy another MB.

Win-Win for him and apple. I laugh at all of you who say he doesn't know what he is doing. How much money does he have? More than all of us together 100x over? Do you really think he got it by making bad decisions? Nope, he got it because no matter what he does, you still buy his stuff. You better believe that if MB sales dropped 50% in the next month because of this, there would immediately be another update to address the issue. There isn't going to be, and sales won't drop. Get over it.

A co-worker of mine has a window placard that says "Your silly little opinion has been duly noted" I bet that's how Steve feels about us.
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That type of thinking is exactly how people with "100x over" money, lose their money. Apple nearly went out of business before, who says it can't happen again?
 
Shagrat said:
You may not need Ethernet, I do. You may not need a headphone jack, but I do. One man's meat is another mans poison, and all that.

What i really think is sticking in people's craw here, is that an FW port on the MB would have increased it's usability for a minimal outlay, but the ONLY reason, in my opinion, as to why it was removed, is to force those of us who are running MBs and who DO use firewire, to have to upgrade to MBPs.
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This is exactly the way I see it. It really burns me.
 
Bulls*@ I just bought one last year. It has USB but you have to use the firewire connector to stream the video from the drive. The usb connection only allows you to get pictures off of it for some reason.
Why didn't he say to get rid of it off the MB Pro then too if he felt it wasn't needed so much?
 
thedoctorlee said:
Am I missing something? YOU CAN STILL GET AN APPLE NOTEBOOK WITH FIREWIRE.

Everyone is complaining about how "only consumer video cameras have USB". Newsflash... the MB is a consumer notebook. If you have a "pro" camera, then buy a MB PRO. I really don't get it.... it's so simple. Apple offers a bunch of other computes with Firewire. Not only that... you have the low-end MB that has firewire (for $999).
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They don't offer one in a small form factor.
 
underwater said:
I would have cut firewire on the lower-end laptops also. Very small number of people use it... cost reduction is more important for Apple's current strategy of converting low-end PC laptop users to apple... it's the $ sweatspot.
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uh, Apple needs to cut another $600 worth of stuff from the MB to get those low-end PC notebook users. I am pretty sure FW doesn't cost $600.
 
kabunaru said:
I wonder if Steve Jobs was drunk when he chose to remove the FireWire from the MacBook.
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He was most definitely drunk, but not by means of alcohol. I think the reality distortion field is rapidly expanding.

diamond.g said:
uh, Apple needs to cut another $600 worth of stuff from the MB to get those low-end PC notebook users. I am pretty sure FW doesn't cost $600.
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No, but it might have been too large for Ive's design.
 
dernhelm said:
And while a simple FW port may seem like it is just no big deal, if it is required for what I use my computer for, then I need it - and the omission of the port means I have to think twice.
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Exactly. Some argue a FireWire port isn't important only because they never us it. It's the "Who needs a car, I take the bus":rolleyes: argument. But for those of us who depend upon FireWire, its omission is a killing blow.
I like the small form factor of the MB, but the lack of FW is a deal killer. Howsabout a 13" MBP? I'd buy one. But now it looks like I'll hold on to my 1st Gen MB for another year or so (crummy graphics chip and all:p)

corinhorn said:
So, here is a potential conundrum. What if my current MacBook (with FireWire) began to have unfixable problems and AppleCare replaced the machine. Replacing it with the new MacBook would be pointless for me since all my peripherals are FireWire. Would I get a MacBook pro as a replacement then?
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You'd probably get the $999 MB. I believe it was the previous generation's top MB.
 
I have had major problems with Firewire on the last generations of MacBook and MacBook Pros.

We use them for portable audio recording.

Problem has been, Apple has not allowed enough current on the bus to power external audio interfaces. Very few will power from Firewire, first generation Intel notebooks power most interfaces fine. USB, however does not give enough power to make the most simple and low end audio device work, and what decent audio interfaces use USB is zero.

We have a few Focusrite and Mackie interfaces, all need mains power on the newer machines, which isn't an option when you are mobile.

ExpressCard has been the only real option, which is only on the pro machines and is very expensive.

I was expecting FW3200 on the MBP's too, still the old FW800.

What also hurts is the MBP still has two USB sockets, and the MB has two minus Firewire.

New MacBooks and MackBook Pro machines have been a failure in the I/O department. Only thing I welcome is DisplayPort, however that uses up a USB socket if you want dual DVI, so one USB socket down. Then you want a mouse and/or keyboard, uses up almost all the bus power on your last USB socket, and lowers most devices to USB 1.1 speeds that are connected to it.

It was bad enough when Apple didn't include FW800 on the first generation of MacBook Pros. That was a huge embarrassment on Apples part.

Apple are very bad with their design. Microphone next to the loudspeaker on the MBP's, why not in the screen next to the iSight as on MacBooks. Light sensors next to the screen under the grills, when they are used to automatically dim the screen and keyboard, if something white is on screen they detect an increased in brightness, and the back lights get increase in brightness, which then gets bright enough to switch off the backlit keyboard.
 
Bentov said:
Most of your here need to get a clue. Steve doesn't care about you, only your money. He knows that no matter how much most of you complain, you will most likely do one of two things:

1.) Suck it up and buy a MBP

2.) Keep you old MB, stop buying fw equipment, and at a later date buy another MB.

Win-Win for him and apple. I laugh at all of you who say he doesn't know what he is doing. How much money does he have? More than all of us together 100x over? Do you really think he got it by making bad decisions? Nope, he got it because no matter what he does, you still buy his stuff. You better believe that if MB sales dropped 50% in the next month because of this, there would immediately be another update to address the issue. There isn't going to be, and sales won't drop. Get over it.

A co-worker of mine has a window placard that says "Your silly little opinion has been duly noted" I bet that's how Steve feels about us.
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There is another option—screw Apple and buy a Dell.
 
kabunaru said:
Johnathan Ive should be the new leader now.
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Great designer does not make one a good businessman.

Ive is creative, no doubt about that. However, from what I've read about Ive, he is interested in creating and is not a businessman. So he would be a bad fit to steer the boat called Apple.
 
parapup said:
So he thinks it is OK to expect people to throw away their perfectly fine FireWire camcorders and spend money on a USB 2 one for no advantage of theirs, in this economy?

I call that being out of touch. Not a good sign at all.
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In this economy?

Apple is virtually the only company unaffected by the credit crunch, at the end of the day, if people complain about buying a new camera, dont buy a new macbook. (Get pro instead)!:)
 
I was going to get a MB :mad:

And now I still am. My HD camera uses SD cards and/or USB2 so it's no big deal for me and I haven't used firewire on my PowerBook at all since I replaced my firewire external HDD with a USB2 one. I've got no need for it at all so I'll still be getting one and won't think twice about firewire :)

Don't think I've ever used it on my 2 year old iMac either...
 
All that talk about the enviroment and how green Apple is getting.. what a joke Throw away, buy new, throw away, buy new,,,, :confused:
 
MicOSX said:
The technology exists to support firewire over ethernet. In theory, couldn't Apple release (yet another) adapter that plugs into the ethernet port?
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It's NOT "FireWire over ethernet". It's FireWire using an ethernet connector and there are no chips for it.
 
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