Well to each his own really, I do think that we will see FW in rev B (or at least hope, id love to use FW 800 for external HD's when I get my macbook). Just curious, but what would your reaction be if that were to happen?
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Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks
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Well to each his own really, I do think that we will see FW in rev B (or at least hope, id love to use FW 800 for external HD's when I get my macbook). Just curious, but what would your reaction be if that were to happen?
It might be too late at that point. Excluding FW from the MacBooks was a bad move, NT. And from what I'm seeing in this thread, Apple is going to find out just how bad a move it was.
So you're arguing your case out of what might be? Does "what might be" constitute a real choice? If someone needs a fw-equipped matte laptop _now_, they should consider what might be included in a future revision because you personally believe it will happen?
I´m actually considering the WhiteBook or a 2nd hand 2.4 BlackBook, realizing that the glossy fashion won´t disappear just yet. Since my only options for portability with FireWire have glossy screens, I´m opting for the most portable of the two. Unibody is nice but not a need in that respect. If they were to introduce FW800 in the unibody MacBook, I´d go for that. But I still wouldn´t be 100% happy like I´m used to with Apple. Spoilt, I know. Now, a matte screen on the 15" MBP would reach max on my happy-scale, securing an immediate purchase.
What´s funny is that I now even consider what was in the past. The previous 15" does fulfill my primary needs.
I have the 2.4 BlackBook. I love it. It's been a great little computer so far.
No, if they need a computer here and now, they should probably just get a whitebook if they can live with the outdated components. I'm just looking into the future for what will be MY purchase, after WWDC, after any revisions/price shifts or watever else apple has in store.
The WhiteBook is a pretty damn good deal, you have to admit. It's probably the best deal Apple offers at the moment overall.
Having a choice when buying premium priced hardware is not being spoiled in any way. It's not like we're asking to have a 2.8gHz core duo, three firewire ports, E-sata, Expresscard52, and a 17 inch screen in a 13 inch form factor. Hell, we're not even getting a decent resolution as it is.
I have the 2.33 gHz MBP. Yup, it does fullfill primary needs. My soon to come 12.1 inch X200s with the same resolution will be better at it, though (for one, it's much better with regards to battery life and I can actually use the OS it comes with for a firewire connection. Now, how is that for "extreme demands"? LOL).
No doubt, but people who need a new computer shouldn't have to go bargain hunting to be able to use OS X and the investment in software.
So, let's recapitulate:
If someone needs a new computer with fw now, you advice them to buy outdated tech. I'm glad we got that established. That is certainly a great choice for a consumer. Especially I like how much "choice" that gives the consumer, and how future proof that choice is – both with regards to the specific outdated hardware and where firewire might or might not go in the future. Let's say FW doesn't come back, or that Apple will not (in the foreseeable future - say four-five years) make another matte computer, and they in those years will either not include firewire or use the malfunctioning Agere-chipset OR fix the neutering they did with the Expresscard slot. The way the laptops are going, that seems to be the best bet. Will you keep advising people to buy outdated tech? Why should we NOT buy something else to make sure we will be able to do our work and to make sure we won't buy expensive software that might be useless the moment our computers die. Simply because we can't source an old Apple with outdated tech?
In effect you're asking people who use their computers for a living to keep using old tech and just live with it, all so Apple can focus solely on the L-C-D consumer.
I hate to break it to you, but most pros compete with other pros. And many of those use computers that aren't outdated, are actually working, and have been chosen for the job, so it is done the best and easiest way possible. You're asking us to try to compete with old tech against their new tech.
There is a reason I don't use Atrac recorders for my ENG, there's a reason I use modern condenser mics, and there's a reason I don't use a USB 16bit/44.khz audio interface fr my work. They are not only "old tech", but way behind in quality compared to modern stuff. I don't use a consumer 2.3MP camera from five years ago either. Neither of those things are even close to being competitive – No matter how much one prefers that buggy os.
You see, compromises like that we never had to make. It used to be simple things, like between topping the specs and the cost of doing so. I consider the screen as important to a computer, even a portable, as good speakers are important to a hi-fi system. It´s about the best possible delivery of what´s being produced on the system. In my eyes glossy isn´t it, but of course it´s a preference thing. I guess the lack of FireWire is like not being able to hook up anything but tape decks.
Well done steve...
Apple ditched Floppies long before everyone else and everyone screamed. They were right. They have starting ditching CD/DVD drives in favour of wifi and download, and I think that fairly soon, they'll be proved right. They held off on the old HD-DVD/Blu-ray thing because they hate to be wrong.
The fact is, regarding firewire, they will be proved right... again. Face it, they're ditching a technology that they intrinsically own. It bugs me when people gripe that they want progress but please keep all the old stuff on there as well or my old stuff won't work. That's what makes Windows the bloated mess that it is.
Perhaps Apple should make an iMac with an 8-Track tape deck or a 45/33 rpm turntable on it. You know, just in case one of you guys feels the urge to moan that you're getting left behind...?
Apple ditched Floppies long before everyone else and everyone screamed. They were right. They have starting ditching CD/DVD drives in favour of wifi and download, and I think that fairly soon, they'll be proved right. They held off on the old HD-DVD/Blu-ray thing because they hate to be wrong.
The fact is, regarding firewire, they will be proved right... again. Face it, they're ditching a technology that they intrinsically own. It bugs me when people gripe that they want progress but please keep all the old stuff on there as well or my old stuff won't work. That's what makes Windows the bloated mess that it is.
Perhaps Apple should make an iMac with an 8-Track tape deck or a 45/33 rpm turntable on it. You know, just in case one of you guys feels the urge to moan that you're getting left behind...?
Not only that, for some things, even the unreleased version of usb is inferior even to FW400.
Indeed I do. I also know that USB 3.0 (due soon) is backward compatible. I also know what "forward thinking" means. As, it seems, do Apple.
So you guys thinks "forward thinking" means creating a gap where the consumer have no choice, and have the thing you nixed be replaced with something in the future - as in several years - that is inferiour?
Come to think of it, that makes perfect sense ...
Hey, it happened with floppy drives when people had disks and disks and disks of work stored on floppy. Would you rather they'd kept them on just in case? Change has to come and people have to accept it when it does. Just ask anyone who bought a HD-DVD and can't buy a movie for it now.
Sigh!
Okay, do tell me how USB3 will be superior for people who want to:
Use target mode
Work with audio
Use the 11-25volts given by FW as opposed to the 5volts of usb
Network over firewire (well, in that case ...)
Connect their pro equipment - be it audio equipment or video equipment with firewire to a computer that hasn't got. No USB is not an option. Not even 3.0.
Please do tell me, how, in this period where Apple's laptop offerings either don't include firewire and the ones that does include it either don't work for it all, or the OS itself cripples it (yes, I can explain this if you wish) will benefit from a nonexistant USB 3-connection on a future laptops.
Also, please do explain why you think this is a move forward, not backwards. – on second thought. Don't bother. I already know: You, personally, only have use for something to plugin your iPod and/or iPhone, therefore everyone else shouldn't need anything else, and since the majority has no need for anything else, then that is all that should be offered.
Let me quote myself from another thread commenting something akin to your post:
Edit:
You really don't get it, do you?
This is not a move FORWARDS. This is a move BACKWARDS.
And no, I won't be sending letters to Apple. I have already purchased a Thinkpad with an Expresscard slot where I KNOW that the FW-adaptor will actually work.
What's funny is that you're trying to argue that we should just let the cheapest part in our production chain dictate the rest of it – Even if competitors are offering something better, something that will work.
Floppies were obviously an inferior technology to optical media. Such is not the case with Firewire and USB. Even so, Apple dropped floppies a year too early, before writable optical drives were ready, leaving customers with difficult choices for backup. It wasn't good timing and people were right to scream at the time.
But they haven't ditched optical drives, except on the MBA, so that's not really support for your argument. And even the MBA offers an optional separate optical drive.
Because they haven't figured out how to make substantial profit from it.
And this is completely wrong, since all the new models they introduced in early March have FW. They only dropped FW from one product, and that wasn't for any technical reason but merely for product differentiation.
Straw man argument that's totally irrelevant. I'm afraid you have totally failed to support your contention.
I can see where you're all coming from, really do. I have two firewire only peripherals and it hurts, but over almost 20 years of using macs and very often questioning their judgment, only to then realise that they were way ahead of me, I get to thinking "what do they know that I don't" rather than berate them for it. They have a lot of experience in innovation and I genuinely feel that they would not make this decision without a very hefty "see... we were right all along" on the horizon.
With Apple I don't see it as get on board or else, I see it as get on board or get left behind.
With Apple I don't see it as get on board or else, I see it as get on board or get left behind.
But they haven't ditched optical drives, except on the MBA, so that's not really support for your argument. And even the MBA offers an optional separate optical drive.
And you can't see where this is going? Oh dear!
Because they haven't figured out how to make substantial profit from it.
Completely untrue, unfounded and a ridiculous thing to say. They could not make a profit until one format won out. That's good business sense.
And this is completely wrong, since all the new models they introduced in early March have FW. They only dropped FW from one product, and that wasn't for any technical reason but merely for product differentiation.
And you can't see where THIS is going? Oh dear.
Straw man argument that's totally irrelevant. I'm afraid you have totally failed to support your contention.[/QUOTE]
If you say so, but yours hardly stands up to scrutiny does it?
And you can't see where this is going? Oh dear!
Because they haven't figured out how to make substantial profit from it.
Completely untrue, unfounded and a ridiculous thing to say. They could not make a profit until one format won out. That's good business sense.
And this is completely wrong, since all the new models they introduced in early March have FW. They only dropped FW from one product, and that wasn't for any technical reason but merely for product differentiation.
And you can't see where THIS is going? Oh dear.
Straw man argument that's totally irrelevant. I'm afraid you have totally failed to support your contention.[/QUOTE]
If you say so, but yours hardly stands up to scrutiny does it?
Oh, I missed that little gem!
There is no doubt there is a market for that. My newly purchased Thinkpad doesn't have an optical drive. However, I won't be going to downloads yet.
The thing is, "convenience" at the expense of quality is not what I do. Until I can download proper audio for all the bands I buy music from, I will be buying them in hardcopy. I prefer quality over everything else.
I'm sorry, but putting your judgment into the hands of a corporation is hardly particularly intelligent.
I don't "question" their judgment. I am saying they're downright idiots and have no clue what they're doing. Or they know exactly what they're doing and want every pro that supported them during the nineties off their back and cater-only to the iPod Crowd. They sure as hell have no idea how many people rely on (working) firewire.
Sure, Apple knows more about what my needs in the audio field is than I do. Just like they know more about film making than the film makers. Get real, will you.
Yes, we have established that. Whatever Apple does must be "forward thinking". We get that from you. Somehow, in your eager to get that message across, you didn't answer my direct questions to you. Is it possible it IS because it really isn't that clever trusting a corporation to make your decisions, or is it simply because you have no needs at all, but simply go with whatever Apple feeds you?