Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
chakosticks
macrumors member
Here are the questions that Apple should have asked...
How many people WILL buy a Macbook because it doesn't have firewire?
How many people WILL NOT buy a Macbook because it doesn't have firewire?
Honestly, whoever was in the boardroom and neglected to pose such a ridiculously simple question should be fired.
Scene at the Apple Store...
"Hey trendy Apple t-shirt worker guy with minimal product knowledge, does that Macbook have Firewire?"
"No."
"GOOD! Can't stand that nonsense! Serve me up a pair!"
How many people WILL buy a Macbook because it doesn't have firewire?
How many people WILL NOT buy a Macbook because it doesn't have firewire?
Honestly, whoever was in the boardroom and neglected to pose such a ridiculously simple question should be fired.
Scene at the Apple Store...
"Hey trendy Apple t-shirt worker guy with minimal product knowledge, does that Macbook have Firewire?"
"No."
"GOOD! Can't stand that nonsense! Serve me up a pair!"
Or.....someone did ask that question in the boardroom, and the answer is not what you or everyone else here wanted it to be.
It's partially true.
A good portion of hi def cams from Canon and Sony are indeed USB (and I mean video, not just stills). However there are still a good number of great cams that are fw only, such as yours and the HV30 (off of the top of my head).
I don't believe this statement. As I understand it, motherboards have numberous layers to run traces, the controller chip already can handle firewire and the chip needed is very small.
I could be wrong, but I don't believe space had much if anything to do with this decision.
Agreed, especially for such an small cost for including firewire on a $1299 laptop. I haven't checked lately but previously when I checked it appears many other manufacturers include firewire in their laptops priced in this range.
chakosticks
macrumors member
OK, so your point is that in planning the new Macbooks Apple determined that more people would buy them if Firewire was left off?
Goona
macrumors 68020
No, my point is that perhaps not enough people would care if it was gone.
Really, do you honestly think people actively wanted it off? Of course not. But a huge amount of people probably don't care, and that's the angle I'm guessing Apple went with.
I still wish it was there, I'm not one of those people.
i reckon apple know they screwed up with this one.
even the mac mini has a firewire 800 port and that's at a far cheaper price point that a macbook!
i recently bought a brand new Sony PMW EX3 for around $10 000 and it has firewire too. it's not it's only format of output but it's the only option that can feed live video into the computer, thereby allowing you to use the camera with the likes of Arkaos video dj software, etc. (other than SDI that is which requires a few hundred dollar capture card!!)
even the mac mini has a firewire 800 port and that's at a far cheaper price point that a macbook!
i recently bought a brand new Sony PMW EX3 for around $10 000 and it has firewire too. it's not it's only format of output but it's the only option that can feed live video into the computer, thereby allowing you to use the camera with the likes of Arkaos video dj software, etc. (other than SDI that is which requires a few hundred dollar capture card!!)
albusseverus
macrumors 6502a
There's plenty of unibody refurbs coming though at reasonable prices, but honestly, it's like buying a computer without storage.
The Air as a (monsterously overpriced) netbook (it's got an iPod hard drive, for crying out 'loud) might be excusable without firewire. But a lot of Air owners buy a MacBook Pro, sooner or later. It's just not quite enough a Mac, for the price.
Frankly, the whitebook isn't that much bigger than the unibody, but you want the DDR3 & the LED screen (at least you get the GPU). If you must buy now, whitebook. If you can wait, pray they slip through FireWire unibodies before Steve comes back from 'leave'.
What if, instead, the question was "Can we eliminate firewire without a significant decline in sales?"
What if the answer was "Yes, most people won't care; those who need that specific feature will consider the pro line. And, frankly, this helps us differentiate the two lines."?
So, the great minds decide to eliminate an item that doesn't add significantly to the cost and to welcome lower sales, in the hopes that it will move customers to a notebook they don't want or need. How would they quantify the number of sales lost and decide that it was acceptable? They lost two MB sales from me and likely all future sales because I'm in the process of moving everything to PC's where I was able to buy two Notebooks the size I wanted, equipped the way I wanted.
Yes, that's a brilliant marketing strategy! There's no logical way to justifuy what was a very boneheaded move.
marbles
macrumors 68000
Thats exactly what I did a few weeks ago, great machine..will need a RAM upgrade to 4 or maybe even 6Gb,....I may just do the HD to 7200 if the `RAM doesn't speed things up enough[but I think it will]
Translation: Firewire is not a sufficiently compelling feature to make the consumer choose this laptop?
You can't have it both ways.
I can't believe you're dismissing the hypothesis that you're a vocal minority in a market that they understand very well.
butterfly0fdoom
macrumors 6502a
Mac sales don't revolve around you. For every sale lost to someone that wants FireWire, Apple can get at new customers fed up with Windows that don't care for FireWire or don't know what is it. It's a well-justified decision.
Where that argument falls flat is that, although some won't buy the new Macbook because it does not have Firewire, I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that customers fed up with Windows will buy the Macbook because it does not have Firewire. IOW, they would have got these sales regardless, and merely ended up losing some sales that they could have had if they had kept Firewire.
brad.c
macrumors 68020
What, is this thread feeling threatened post-wise or something?
You're not counting two sources of increased revenue: 1) those customers that absolutely need firewire so badly that they're willing to get a pro, and 2) from the slightly increased margins gained by not including firewire in each of over a hundred million MacBooks that they'll sell to people who don't care either way about the presence or absence of Firewire. Perhaps those numbers make up for a few disappointed folk like you? I'm just sayin'
vvebsta
macrumors 6502a
apparently Apple knows the importance of firewire, because firewire is included in all the rest of their refreshed products... if it was obsolete you would have seen it disappear from the new 17 inch, the new mini, the new mac pros, all of which still have firewire (either 400 or 800)... this is just a stupid stunt by apple to make pro-consumers buy the more expensive.
Perhaps. I still think it is totally ludicrous that a $1300 Macbook can't even afford the same features as a $499 PC (or even a $399 netbook in some cases).
I haven't gone through this enormous thread to find a link to such a machine...but be honest here, does that machine lack anything that the MacBook has? Like the iSight maybe, or screen size, or resolution, or whatever? There has to be something that the PC you're thinking of lacks. And is it ludicrous for it to be lacking in that way?
At the end of the day, any laptop is a set of tradeoffs. It's always been that way and it will always be that way. If you don't like the set of tradeoffs offered by one product by one vendor, you can pick another product by the same vendor or you can pick another vendor entirely. No sense trying to get the whaaambulance to come.
albusseverus
macrumors 6502a
I don't doubt Apple did their surveys - how many won't buy the MacBook, how many will go to the MacBook Pro, and decided it was worth any bad publicity to do it.
The truth is, there wasn't that much of a spec improvement for any of the new MacBooks, 'look shiny new case' and removing FireWire was a cynical move to up-sell to the Pro line.
And, it fits their recession strategy - if your volume is going to be lower, "you need to" increase prices/profit margins. Or as I call it 'yuppie their way through'.
Forget the students, the wanna-bes, stick with your core customers, the rich folks, the ones that really count!
Apple's conceded the Education market. PCs and cheap so-called netbooks are out selling them 70:30 and gaining ground every month. Since Apple started making PC compatibles, there's no real reason to buy a Mac, if you can run OS X on a netbook at 1/3 of the price or better.
And for those that think Apple won't listen, take a look at what happened to the 17" Pro, they spoiled their signature 'black glass surround look' to accommodate the 'whiners' who wanted matte screens.
Sometimes Apple listens. If they take a big enough hit in sales, they'll re-think this cynical move.
Belly-laughs
macrumors 6502a
According to Apple's own page on the Cinema Display, nothing beats a neutral grey surround for the graphics professional. So I am extremely keen on knowing how well the proper screen sells compared to those tacky mirrors. I guess not too well, or we´d seen it on the 15" already. If they want me to move up to a 15" MBP to get FireWire, at least give me the the rest of "pro" features! I love how they´ve totally cocked it up – Apple doesn´t offer anything for me this season. The scary thought is: perhaps they never will.
butterfly0fdoom
macrumors 6502a
I never argued that customers will buy the MacBook because of the lack of FireWire. I'm saying that the vast majority of customers for the MacBook, especially those in the target demographic, either don't care about the lack of FireWire or don't know what FireWire is. IOW, read more carefully before arguing.
Apple has hardly conceded the Education market. I work in a college bookstore. The vast majority of our sales are Macs.
Sometimes Apple listens. But MacBook sales aren't dwindling because of FireWire. They're dwindling because of the economy. And even then, they're not dwindling by much.
Once again, I reiterate. The majority of the people that buy MacBooks either know what FireWire is and never used it anyway or don't know what FireWire is and therefore don't care that the MacBook lacks FireWire. I told my roommate that the new MacBooks lack FireWire. He gave me a blank stare and asked me what it is. And realized that FireWire is the port that he never uses. You may need FireWire. I use FireWire. But the reality is, we're in the minority.