Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

[Eric S.]

Pick up your dad's powerbook, easily access entire HD as target. No muss, no fuss, no permissions required.

Anyone who picks up any laptop can do that. All that's required is to boot from a CD that gives you admin permissions. Or take the HD out and put it in another system.

Even easier, connect a USB drive, boot from it, and the whole machine is yours. You don't even need another system involved like with target disk mode.

Whenever you lose control of your laptop your data is compromised. The best protection, as mentioned previously, is to encrypt any critical data.

 

[vvebsta]

*Public Announcement*

If anyone wants to attend, I am selling 2 UNUSED firewire cables still in original packaging dated alll the waaaay back to 2001 at a charity auction this friday at The Venetian Las Vegas Hotel. These historical artifacts are looking for a good home at a distinguished museum such as the Louvre or even the Smithsonian. Bidding begins at 9AM PCT. Opening bids will start at 150K. By invitation only. Contact Raoul at the French Department Antiquities for more details.

 

[sushi]

Firewire 800 should be standard across the line. All portables, all desktops.

I would love to see this.

With the FW800 port, Apple can later upgrade to the FW1600 and 3200 standard since they use the same connector.

+1 Absolutely. I'll pay more for FW on a 13".

Likewise.

Apple had a 12" PB. People loved it.

Wonder the real reason that Apple killed the 12 inch PB.

It was sweet. Got one for my dad. He loves it and still uses it.

I used target disk mode yesterday when fixing a friend's mac...

TDM is so handy and convenient.

Right, encrypt your important stuff. Keep firewire across the line. I'll be happy.

DMG images make this easy.

Anyone who picks up any laptop can do that. All that's required is to boot from a CD that gives you admin permissions. Or take the HD out and put it in another system.

Even easier, connect a USB drive, boot from it, and the whole machine is yours. You don't even need another system involved like with target disk mode.

Booting from a CD is so slow and you are extremely limited in what you can do. With TDM your computer treats the other HD as an external and therefore any maintenance/repair/recovery software that works on an external HD will work.

Booting from an external USB drive won't work unless you have a clone of your particular Mac in most cases. With the switch to the Intel you need to specific install to boot the computer. Basically with TDM I can use any Mac that has FW to connect to another FW equipped Mac.

Taking the HD out of many Macs is not a fun experience -- especially the laptop models except for a few models.

TDM is such a wonderful feature. Sad to see it missing on the MB.

 

[albusseverus]

*Public Announcement*

If anyone wants to attend, I am selling 2 UNUSED firewire cables still in original packaging dated alll the waaaay back to 2001 at a charity auction this friday at The Venetian Las Vegas Hotel. These historical artifacts are looking for a good home at a distinguished museum such as the Louvre or even the Smithsonian. Bidding begins at 9AM PCT. Opening bids will start at 150K. By invitation only. Contact Raoul at the French Department Antiquities for more details.

You've obviously heard about the cheaper Macs coming. FireWire will be the first thing jettisoned on iMacs and MacBooks Pro, then external monitor support, bluetooth, in fact, anything a Windows machine doesn't have standard. And there's a long way down to Windows PC standard monitors, too. Watch and weep, people.

That'll shut the complainers up, won't it?

 

[RedTomato]

*Public Announcement*

If anyone wants to attend, I am selling 2 UNUSED firewire cables still in original packaging dated alll the waaaay back to 2001 at a charity auction this friday at The Venetian Las Vegas Hotel. These historical artifacts are looking for a good home at a distinguished museum such as the Louvre or even the Smithsonian. Bidding begins at 9AM PCT. Opening bids will start at 150K. By invitation only. Contact Raoul at the French Department Antiquities for more details.

Exchange for a round hockey puck Apple mouse, and an Apple supplied Zip drive?

 

[Sehnsucht]

Ughhh...

...This thread has been brought back to life. Ughhh...

 

[localoid]

You've obviously heard about the cheaper Macs coming. FireWire will be the first thing jettisoned on iMacs and MacBooks Pro, then external monitor support, bluetooth, in fact, anything a Windows machine doesn't have standard. And there's a long way down to Windows PC standard monitors, too. Watch and weep, people.

That'll shut the complainers up, won't it?

No, it'll just give them (another) reason to switch to a Windows laptop with an ExpressCard slot that a readily available Firewire card can be plugged into. Or simply buy one of the many Windows laptops available with a built-in Firewire port.

...This thread has been brought back to life. Ughhh...

Someone have a gun to your head forcing you to read this thread? Should we dial 911?

 

[Eric S.]

Booting from a CD is so slow and you are extremely limited in what you can do. With TDM your computer treats the other HD as an external and therefore any maintenance/repair/recovery software that works on an external HD will work.

Booting from an external USB drive won't work unless you have a clone of your particular Mac in most cases. With the switch to the Intel you need to specific install to boot the computer. Basically with TDM I can use any Mac that has FW to connect to another FW equipped Mac.

Taking the HD out of many Macs is not a fun experience -- especially the laptop models except for a few models.

TDM is such a wonderful feature. Sad to see it missing on the MB.

You missed the whole point of my post. It was a reply to someone who claimed that target disk mode made the system insecure. It was not about ease of use.

I agree with you, I miss target disk mode too!

 

[SpitzerCR]

Couple of my friends would have bought the new macs if they had firewire. And i would have bought my fiance one too.

I edit my video on my MBP, but it would be nice to have a little help or get more ideas from them...

 

[RedTomato]

We can only wait until the new MBs come out. The current ones are getting a little old, and it will be interesting to see what updates come along.

https://buyersguide.macrumors.com//#MacBook

The buyers guide suggests that they are overdue for a refresh. Shouldn't be long now.

Two possiblities:

- If the new ones have FW we can formally close this thread (!).

- Any radical changes or redesigns (more than just a refresh) BUT still no FW, we can kiss FW on the MB goodbye.

 

[the Helix]

FW & Photography

Professional photographers and photojournalists are another two groups that have suffered from the omission of FW in the MacBook and MacBook Air.

The extremely more portable MacBook and MacBook Air were ideal systems for photographers and photojournalists to carry onto the field. It is not a question of spending a bit more here. Rather, it is the desirability of a more compact form factor to serve the needs of professionals. Serving Pros needs is something that Apple, Inc. is going to have to be careful not to neglect. Just because they slap on the moniker "Pro" on a MacBook, doesn't necessarily mean it is what the Pros need.

If Apple continues to dictate to Pros what they do or don't need, Pros will continue to migrate slowly, but surely back to PC's - especially with the imminent release of the brilliant Windows 7. And note well: when the Pros migrate, so do eventually a great market share of users.

It will be important for Apple, Inc. to avoid corporate hubris. If they don't, they will surely be humiliated by the fickle market that will turn away from them just as quickly as it turned towards them.

 

[michael.lauden]

Couple of my friends would have bought the new macs if they had firewire. And i would have bought my fiance one too.

I edit my video on my MBP, but it would be nice to have a little help or get more ideas from them...

here is my reasoning.

you want firewire mostly to edit video/get higher speeds on externals. for me, i could make sense of mostly the first part - because with a laptop you shouldn't be going back and forth too much, and USB 2.0 speeds seriously aren't that slow when it comes to that.


so if you want to edit video why are you buying a laptop first of all - and why are you buying the lowest rated processor on Apple's lineup?

if you are so worried about how fast firewire is.. the rendering time on MacBooks will make up for it

 

[sushi]

You missed the whole point of my post. It was a reply to someone who claimed that target disk mode made the system insecure. It was not about ease of use.

Oops. Sorry.

I agree with you, I miss target disk mode too!

 

[Tosser]

here is my reasoning.

you want firewire mostly to edit video/get higher speeds on externals. for me, i could make sense of mostly the first part - because with a laptop you shouldn't be going back and forth too much, and USB 2.0 speeds seriously aren't that slow when it comes to that.


so if you want to edit video why are you buying a laptop first of all - and why are you buying the lowest rated processor on Apple's lineup?

if you are so worried about how fast firewire is.. the rendering time on MacBooks will make up for it

After more than 3300 posts, and you still haven't gotten that this is more than merely a question of speed?

 

[Sehnsucht]

Someone have a gun to your head forcing you to read this thread? Should we dial 911?

Grab some wood there, bub...I was being sarcastic. I am in fact an avid reader of The Thread That Shall Last Forever.

*Public Announcement*

If anyone wants to attend, I am selling 2 UNUSED firewire cables still in original packaging dated alll the waaaay back to 2001 at a charity auction this friday at The Venetian Las Vegas Hotel. These historical artifacts are looking for a good home at a distinguished museum such as the Louvre or even the Smithsonian. Bidding begins at 9AM PCT. Opening bids will start at 150K. By invitation only. Contact Raoul at the French Department Antiquities for more details.

LOL.

 

[polaris20]

here is my reasoning.

you want firewire mostly to edit video/get higher speeds on externals. for me, i could make sense of mostly the first part - because with a laptop you shouldn't be going back and forth too much, and USB 2.0 speeds seriously aren't that slow when it comes to that.

so if you want to edit video why are you buying a laptop first of all - and why are you buying the lowest rated processor on Apple's lineup?

if you are so worried about how fast firewire is.. the rendering time on MacBooks will make up for it

I've edited HD video on my MBP everyday this week. It's the same 2.4Ghz proc that's in the MB without FW, and it does very well editing HD video. Why do I have a laptop instead of a desktop? Mobility. I can work on stuff anywhere. I thought that's why you buy a laptop, no?

Editing video isn't strictly rendering. You'll have to wait on any machine, Octo Mac Pro included. The point is that any of the Macs are capable of editing video very well; the main differences are render times, which is something you generally walk away from the machine anyway.

 

[equalsabracket]

I'm not an apple fan so i'm not just making excuses on their behalf here, but.. presumably they had a meeting (or a few meetings) about this and i think it was more a thing of that firewire isn't required as much as other things are rather than a costs thing, because all ports cost more or less the same amount to make and they would have one of those ports replaced with it anyway (although, having said that, there is room for 1 more port on the side).

 

[SpitzerCR]

i say return FW.. /thread..

 

[kdum8]

So does anyone think that Apple perhaps regrets its decision given the furore that has been created, both here and in general? Can anyone see the firewire port coming back in the next revision?

 

[albusseverus]

So does anyone think that Apple perhaps regrets its decision given the furore that has been created, both here and in general? Can anyone see the firewire port coming back in the next revision?

There is a precedent - Apple changed their mind about matte screens for the 17" MacBook Pro, so anything is possible. It's clear they did it to shut the complainers up, and don't really believe in matte screens anymore.

Personally, I think it's unlikely Apple regrets it. See my Steve Jobs Top 5 ToDo List. Kind of sums up what I think Steve thinks about the issue.

They didn't put Firewire back into iPods - no matter what the capacity. Even 32 GB is sufficient to justify faster FireWire transfer rates. And FireWire is still the best way to charge an iPod…

BUT, If people keep agitating for cheaper Macs, Apple will be taking FireWire out of more models, starting with iMacs. And we don't want that, do we?

Keep the focus. We want FireWire more than we want cheaper Macs. Right??

 

[DeuceDeuce]

There is a precedent - Apple changed their mind about matte screens for the 17" MacBook Pro, so anything is possible. It's clear they did it to shut the complainers up, and don't really believe in matte screens anymore.

Personally, I think it's unlikely Apple regrets it. See my Steve Jobs Top 5 ToDo List. Kind of sums up what I think Steve thinks about the issue.

They didn't put Firewire back into iPods - no matter what the capacity. Even 32 GB is sufficient to justify faster FireWire transfer rates. And FireWire is still the best way to charge an iPod…

BUT, If people keep agitating for cheaper Macs, Apple will be taking FireWire out of more models, starting with iMacs. And we don't want that, do we?

Keep the focus. We want FireWire more than we want cheaper Macs. Right??

Wrong... At least for me.

 

[Eric S.]

So does anyone think that Apple perhaps regrets its decision given the furore that has been created, both here and in general? Can anyone see the firewire port coming back in the next revision?

No and no. (But I'd be happy to be wrong.)

 

[the Helix]

Don't hold your breath for FW...

Corporate hubris once brought Apple down. It may do so once again. In any case, No... Apple will probably not put FW back on the MacBooks and ... No, Apple will never admit that it made a mistake.

 

[dmelgar]

Corporate hubris once brought Apple down. It may do so once again. In any case, No... Apple will probably not put FW back on the MacBooks and ... No, Apple will never admit that it made a mistake.

Agreed.
Apple DOES make serious mistakes and does misjudge the market. And when they mess up they are remarkably slow to accept the mistake and evenmslower to correct it.
If they fix it it will be in a year or two.

People get all obsessed with CPU speed. 10% increase gets lots of attention. Yet many people are willing to accept a 50% reduction in speed to access external drives. Apple should have had some high speed access, either fw or esata.

 

[dmelgar]

Sorry in my delay in answering -- I simply missed your post.

When I did my speed tests, I used a couple of external HDs (2.5 and 3.5) that had both FW and USB interfaces. I tested on both Mac and PC. I tested on 100GB plus movement of data. Granted my equipment wasn't the latest and greatest. I did my testing over a year ago and things do change.

One of these days, I may give it another shot with some newer equipment. Gut feeling for daily use of external HDs, is that the new data won't be much different than what I found out before. Although I expect USB speed to have picked up a little bit but still not as fast as FW for sustained large file transfers.

in my extensive tests I only get 15-20MB/sec. USB actually slows down dramatically as you add more USB devices, even if you don't access the other devices. FireWire does not slow down as you chain devices.