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Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

rulesaremyenemy said:
I am much more upset about the loss of Target Disk mode then I am over losing the connection to a DV cam.
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I just got done with a chat with Apple. The CSR had to get tech support to figure it out. there is NO target disk model possible on the MB. I was told it would have to be wireless, the example I was given was bluetooth.

All in all it took him about 30 minutes to get back to me on it. Not his fault, Apple obviously did not give their employees adequate information.
Seems like Jobs is more out of touch then McCain...

This is really disappointing to me. I would have figured that there would have been away around it, but not so.

I use target disk mode a lot. It sure beats sitting waiting for wireless transfers.
 
Wow.

Way to flip consumers, the ones who made the MB the "best selling Mac ever", the middle finger there Jobs.

Guess those of us who don't buy new peripherals every year are left with buying more computer than we need, or last year's leftovers.

Nice.
 
And Steve wears glasses because he's short-sited, is that what it is? :D

There is more than camcorders - I have a Lacie double layer burner with TWO firewire ports and NO usb. (Now I bought it a few years ago, and I know Steve probably thinks I should update every 6 months my hardware.)

Truth is, you shouldnt have to...standards shouldnt change that fast...unless its a true improvement.

Oh, and target disk mode? See, there is so much to use Firewire for...that letter must have been fake.

Steves true answer is along the lines of this:
"The macbook is our best selling mac ever...and it happens to be consumers buying it. We figured we now know how to step it up a notch to get consumers to pay more money...take off the firewire port so all of their peripherals no longer work and they can update to a higher grade mac...this drives sales up and gives us more cash."

Nah...to long to say - consumer just needs to watch the notebook event and hear how many times they made a mantra about consumers and the macbook to figure out the logical step is to have a 'forced' upgrade.

Consumers dont upgrade that often, and this is a good way to make them do so. ;)

Peace

dAlen
 
enadsleinad said:
I can't believe you guys want to edit video on a 13 inch screen! What a nightmare. I totally agree with Unity's post. It not like some one was making you buy the consuer level macbook. And most of you probably don't even own it yet. SO DON'T BUY IT! Jobs is not making your equipment obselete. Only you are if you choose to buy a computer that doesn't match the rest of you setup.
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Apple is selling a 24" display to use with these - I think one could edit video on that. The lack of FW in 2008 is a mistake.

Ray
 
Berliner said:
What about all those musicians who own a FireWire soundcard?
Are they supposed to buy new ones just because Apple decides to let FireWire die in their notebook computers?
I am not sure if an USB2-to-FireWire adaptor will work with these tricky cards.
This is an insane move.
I personally only know people working with Macbook / Macbook Pro computers on stage...
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as a musician... I have a mac pro, and a macbook pro.

I would never ever ever consider running reason, logic, drums from hell, etc. on a macbook. You are creating a situation that does not exist.
 
dAlen said:
Its a God send in many cases when your having issues with the computer and you need to boot it up as a harddrive. ;)

But to each their own.

Peace

dAlen
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Since you say you use it a lot I'm assuming you are having a lot of problems then ?

Or is it the reality that you can't boot up several other OS's anymore ?;)
 
Peace said:
You use it a lot? For what ?
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transferring large Logic studio files, video files, migration assistant, pulling data off a bad drive, you name it.

arkmannj said:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html

let your voices be heard. enough people complain and they will get the business sense to rethink it.

I miss Firewire on both machines (I like having an 800 and a 400 on my MBP)
and I miss having a full DVI connection on the MBP, I dislike adaptors.
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I personally did send feedback on Tuesday. Trouble is that we all know how stubborn Apple can be. If it was something they could send out a patch for they may, but this would be going back and redoing the MB. Highly doubtful they would do it without a huge decline in sales that can not be blamed on the economy.
 
synth3tik said:
transferring large Logic studio files, video files, migration assistant, pulling data off a bad drive, you name it.
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The post I was replying to said he used it for target disk mode a lot. Not transferring files.
You can transfer files from an external HD. A vast majority of them come with combo firewire/USB enclosures.
 
Bullsh*t
My canon hv30, which came out earlier this year, is firewire only to transfer my hd footage.

And if jobs means the usb port on it I have to transfer my low res stills then he just hasn't done his homework.
 
Peace said:
You use it a lot? For what ?
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* large file transfers

* times when I just don't want the hassle of booting up a machine all the way (login, etc) just to copy some files

* system repairs

* I've even booted a computer off of another machine that was in target disk mode and was able to get the machine that was having issues fixed..not having to do a full system reinstall was very nice.

* to clone a machine for backup purposes (it's faster then trying to clone the machine booted up)

* just to use a machine like an external hard drive when I needed some extra storage for a few minutes/hours

* I'm sure I could think of other uses

Target Disk Mode is something that PC friends actually always got very impressed about. losing it is like making the mac more of just a regular PC with OSX. We keep losing stuff. like including the media remote.
 
Peace said:
The post I was replying to said he used it for target disk mode a lot. Not transferring files.
You can transfer files from an external HD. A vast majority of them come with combo firewire/USB enclosures.
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USB would make transferring large files this way a pain in the ass. Loss of time and productivity.
 
Firewire has always been too expensive

underwater said:
I would have cut firewire on the lower-end laptops also. Very small number of people use it... cost reduction is more important for Apple's current strategy of converting low-end PC laptop users to apple... it's the $ sweatspot.

Firewire is already dead in the consumer markets... it's really as simple at that. USB 2.0 won several years ago.
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It's simple numbers-- how many people actually USE Firewire?

If we were all completely honest and looked at the combined user base for Firewire we would see that the base is very small.

Look at Bestbuy for example -- They have 23 Firewire external hard drives available vs. 70 USB 2.0 external drives. That's pretty good but, as always the kicker and IMHO the killer, has always been price. The Firewire drives always cost a good thirty percent more. That's been the Achilles heal of the standard since it's inception.

I use firewire for audio and video on my MacPro and my wallet always stings a little more when I shell out extra loot for whatever firewire interface I need at the time. I justify it because I know it's the best solution for what I need to do. Firewire is better than USB and we could all find the the data to prove it but, Firewire interfaces are more expensive and in the end that's all that counts.

The standard "everyday user" just wants the cheapest interface available. Unless there is a massive price cut, I think it's obvious that Firewire will be relegated to the professional/specialty market from now on. (If it isn't already.)

In any event, I think if the 10% (I don't think it's more that that) who NEED Firewire on their laptop are vocal enough it will be added to the Macbook in the very near future. Apple has responded in the recent past to it's "mis-steps." iPhone price reduction, Airport Extreme Gigabit - Non-Gigabit Models, MobileMe extension --- they do listen you just have to speak up.

Speak up!
 
RHMMMM said:
People, sometimes you just can't win them all. In life, you'll have that.

Just shell out the extra $$$ for a MacBook Pro. Apple wouldn't have eliminated it on the MacBook if they didn't have a good reason to do so. They obviously have determined that not enough people were using the interface.

You people that are complaining are a minority and the machines will still sell great to their target market.

Seems like common business sense to me.



I used my Dad's Sony USB HD / hard disk drive cam this summer and it completely convinced me that is the way I need to go for the future. It was far faster to copy the videos and easier for me (a consumer).

If you're a pro, get the "Pro" model and you'll be happy.
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But if you're not a "pro, then what? Spend 2 grand on a laptop? I think not. I think the reason we're all complaining is that Apple has now priced many many people out of the Apple world. We'll have to buy a windows machine to do what we want. For years, Apple offered us a computer, not any more. Many people (like myself) will not spring for the MBP because it's too expensive and too big. Apple could have avoided all of this, people going back to windows, pissing off pros needlessly, etc. by just putting a $5 port on the MB. Talk about being pound wise and penny foolish...

Isaac
 
Intel MacBook Design

danny_w said:
It was the same with the:apple:TV; Apple expexted you to throw away your [erfectly good 4:3 analog tv in favor of a new widescreen hdtv. At least in that instance there were other factors involved that made it more acceptable (people were going that way anyway, low sales meant it didn't affect that many people, etc). So what are the "other factors" this time? Frankly, I don't see any (other than greed on Apple's part to force you into the more expensive MBP).
Click to expand...

One of the things about the new Intel MacBooks & Intel MacBook Pros that people are not looking at is the smaller area for ports that is available on the new laptops. Having all of the ports on one side is at the root of the space problem. The second thing that happened is the way that the hard drive & the battery was put into the laptop. Apple chose to use more room for them & not use some of the space for more ports. Plus the thing that many will not admit & most others will forget is that Steve Jobs is not a computer engineer. He's really a "used car salesman" working in the computer field. This can be shown by his showing of features on his Apple/Mac products & forgetting that some do not provide benefits & that many benefits are lost because he thinks that he knows how Mac Users use their Macs. Also he is on a small & light over useful function at the current time. The lack of a FW port at all on a new Intel MacBook & the loss of the FW400 port on the Intel MacBook Pro.

With many people stating that they will not be purchasing a new Mac laptop because the loss of needed useful features that if they vote with their pocketbook maybe Apple will see & listen to the real needs of their faithful user. But with Steve Jobs showing his used car salesman way of doing business he is pushing to have Windows converts supply the sales levels while forgetting his longtime customers.

We need to vote with our pocketbooks. This will help our bank accounts out in a time that many may need to conserve on one-essential spending. Actually Steve is trying to help us by eliminating our planned computer purchases. Just think of how many purchases are being put off because of Steve Jobs distator way of running things.

We''ll just have to do more with the refurbished Mac market. Many of the times we do not need a new computer, we just think that we do.
 
Hi
inkswamp said:
This is unfortunate. In my experience with USB 2.0 and Firewire, the former seems to have a lot of intermittent slowdowns, especially during large data transfers, that Firewire doesn't. I don't fully understand the technology behind either, but someone who does once explained to me that USB is prone to bottlenecks that Firewire isn't. Oh well. I guess this isn't the first time the tech world has seen a second-best technology win out.
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Sorry if this has been discussed, I don't have the time to read the whole thread.

:) Anywho...

USB was originally designed for lower data peripherals like mice, printers ( back when ), ... and added mainly a smaller universal connector and hot-pluggability. Of course, also some speed. However, the base technology isn't well for high bandwidth. This isn't overly technical but the reason USB ( 2.0 or otherwise ) is really unstable in performance is that it is a slave kind of technology. It uses the CPU and system bus to perform. FireWire chipsets do most of the work themselves and use very few CPU cycles and the rest of the system. That's also why FW devices can communicate with each other without a computer or computer-type of devices between them. The IEEE 1394 ( FireWire ) architecture is much more suitable for 3200Mbits than USB is.

To abandon FW now would be much more than stupid.
 
I'm sad to see FireWire go. It's great for hard drives & camcorders. Plus, target disk mode is REALLY helpful to me. While USB has a higher theoretical bandwidth, it's more of a short spurt kind of thing while Firewire has a higher sustained transfer speed in my experience. Anyone know how well eSata compares and whether it can do target disk mode?
 
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