Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

[Nordichund]

It doesn't matter what Steve says. No firewire = No sale.

Yes my Sony cam has a usb input, but it won't work without Firewire, believe me I tried. Maybe Apple should improve it's software.

But judging by a lot of the feeback here, it is obvious this new MacBook is aimed at the amateurs.

 

[-hh]

It still doesn't make sense... FW 400 isn't done yet, whatever Apple may think. sure, in time USB 3.0 etc could take precedence but FW is still going strong. They could have at least offered 800 (and maybe 3200 on the MBP) ...

The omission of FW400 is understandable, mostly in that for most users (particularly with 50% of buyers being new Switchers), USB2 can functionally take its place.

However, I do think that Apple missed the boat here, in two ways.

First, having a FW port creates product differentiation, even if it isn't going to be used by many users. With the Mac already being more expensive than PC equivalents, this difference makes direct comparisons more difficult (FW being an 'intangible' of sorts): this is very much what Apple did with the early adoption of Gigabit Ethernet.

How much money could they have saved by excluding the FW 400 port? Couldn't have been much. That's why I believe this was a way to force an upsell to the MBP...

Agreed. The cost is akin to an Oxford 924-class chip and a right-angle solder-on port for the motherboard. I can't easily find a cost for the Oxford, but the FW port is $1.25 and given since I can find adapter boards with both USB & FW800 ports at <$75 retail, the incremental cost to Apple has to be $20 at most IMO.

I think it is the precedent it sets for future Mac that concerns people.

and

The problem here is not Apple removing FireWire from the MacBook, it's that Apple doesn't give us a timetable when FireWire will be gone from all Apple consumer offerings. My iBook is getting old, but I can't just upgrade yet. Money is tight. I have to wait...It's the timetable, people. That's what the people who say that Apple still gives us choice, and no new cameras use FireWire don't seem to grasp.

Agreed on both points. Now that FW is gone from the MacBook, what's going to be on the next iMac or Mac Pro configurations?

...Why not start adding eSATA connections if you're looking to the future and leaving folks behind?

Which brings me to my second point: the I/O interfaces of the new MacBook are a step backwards and while we're lamenting the loss of a FW400 port, a FW400 shouldn't have ever been the port in question: the proper configuration should have been a FW800 for the MacBook and FW3200 for the MacBook Pro.

Apple probably crunched out some numbers and figured it's not worth it to support the niche of owners who require firewire on the macbook...

This 'niche' are those who already are using FW peripherals (eg, the existing customer base)...

I don't think he's that upset with a group of people bitching about firewire when he can sell macbooks to tons and tons of college students who don't even know what firewire is.

...which arguably are new 'Switchers' coming over from Windows.

However, the fallacy of this is that college kids aren't as likely to have the newest USB-only video cameras - - they're going to have Dad's hand-me-down vidocam to play with for YouTube, etc, which is thus more likely to be still Firewire based.

Anyone know if there is an Ethernet to Firewire solution? I read something about the possibility of this the other day. I have no idea if this is a viable solution.

and

Technically there is no difference. It's just a digital file traveling through cables. USB2 is faster on paper but Firewire has a better sustained speed. It's no skin off my nose as I don't care for the tech, just the end result.

Its technically possible for using FW over Ethernet for data transfer, but it has the same problem as USB: it lacks isochronous channels, which is essentially why FW is good for video/audio data.

I can't believe you guys want to edit video on a 13 inch screen! What a nightmare...

and

...Many Pros want the smaller form factor of the MB that Apple refuses to give us in a MBP.

I want a small box because I'm not about to edit in the field - - just need to download it quickly to have a backup (or more total storage capacity) and to do a quick proof check in the field before leaving for home. The "big iron" machine is back at home to do the editing work.

even entry level PC laptops have PCMCIA or express card slots so you can add more ports.

Yet the problem is that the MacBook lacks an EC/34 card slot...

This is one of reasons I'm not upgrading.

That's pretty much the conclusion that I'm coming to, and I'm still using a 12" G4 PowerBook. Time for a larger 2.5" HD instead of a whole new machine.


-hh

 

[OllyW]

Please READ SLOWLY, I know that the old MB does not have FW800 but I can use FW400 mode. My complain in that I can't use my Drobo FW800 with the new MB.

You never mentioned your Drobo FW800 also had a FW400 connection. So, sorry, it's kinda hard to read slow something that wasn't there in the first place.

The new Drobo FW800 also has a USB 2.0 connection so will still work with the new MacBook.

 

[danny_w]

So the lack of Firewire renders the entire computer utterly, 100% useless? It can't be used for anything anymore?

Um, OK .....

If you need firewire then yes, it is utterly useless.

 

[techpr]

The new Drobo FW800 also has a USB 2.0 connection so will still work with the new MacBook.

ohh really !

 

[spinnerlys]

As I am to confused about the lack of Firewire (and be it only FW400), I was curious to see if it had something to do with structural impossibilities of the current design.

But the following image I made, shows that Firewire could be build into the MacBook, regardless of the new case design.

I know the FW port is in the wrong place, but I haven't had that much time to do that mock up.
It just shows, that Firewire could be fit into the case while maintaining the same space between ports.

Enjoy.

So I think too that the lack of Firewire is to have new buyers and up-graders to jump to a MacBook Pro.

It's a shame, as I always was fond of Firewire, maybe the outcry will be so loud (so that Apple Inc. can actually hear it), that they will put FW back where it should belong.

And btw, if a Firewire port is confusing for some users (coming from Windows especially - what I don't even understand, as my first external drives had to have Firewire in 2000 and I use Mac OS only since 2004), Apple should advertise it as a feature, for faster back ups and what not. Or put FW3200 on all machines, if possible.

 

[199708]

I'd like to know the amount of people that use the Kensington lock as to Firewire.... i guess Kensington locks are VERY popular***

***just my assumption, based on my life experiences at uni, work, cafe's and on business trips, & that i have NEVER seen one used.
only place are some shops to lock down unattended notebooks.

 

[chadder007]

Please sign this petition, if you're p*ssed off about dropping the firewire from the MacBook..

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/MB1394/petition.html

Already did bro.

 

[BenRoethig]

Petitions won't work, only lost sales.

 

[Sceneshifter]

As a musician I can say there is no way you can buy a good guitar for $400

The ones I have cost anywhere from $1500 to $3000

I didn't say that musical instrument was a guitar did I, sjeez. There's PLENTY of good gear for 400 dollar, Logic Studio being one of them in software version. Plenty of high quality hardware synths and soft synths, plenty of massive audio libraries, plenty of sound cards, plenty of ... the list goes on. With 400 dollar, you can buy more then a freaking firewire port.

 

[maplestar]

Yea, I really think Apple has turned to being updated in all the newest technologies. So everytime you hear that a notebook or a product is having a major update, expect all technologies that are old and might not be used after 2 years to be dumped.

I mean, even if people now would be happy that Apple included firewire, maybe two years later it'll become a useless port as most new people who buy Apple laptops use newer camcorders with USB only.

This way the computer is updated for the future.

 

[Prof.]

Sorry if this has been asked already but....

What do I do if I purchase a new macbook in year and i need to transfer my data using TimeMachine that can only be connected with a FireWire?

 

[apfhex]

Someone may have mentioned this already, but for me the lack of Firewire is a deal-breaker because of Target Disk Mode. I'm just fine using USB2 or ethernet or whatever for file transfer, and my firewire devices all have USB2 ports as well, but Target Disk Mode has saved my virtual hide (and that of family members as well) more than once and I can't justify having a laptop without it.

Not that I'm even in the market to get a Macbook right now, but it would be near perfect for me over the Pro if not for this one thing. That said, anyone want to trade me their 12" PBG4? I still want Apple to make a 12" Macbook.

 

[editguy]

Yea, I really think Apple has turned to being updated in all the newest technologies. So everytime you hear that a notebook or a product is having a major update, expect all technologies that are old and might not be used after 2 years to be dumped.

I mean, even if people now would be happy that Apple included firewire, maybe two years later it'll become a useless port as most new people who buy Apple laptops use newer camcorders with USB only.

This way the computer is updated for the future.

If that were true, where is the eSATA port? Or, HDMI?

 

[Artful Dodger]

You're not reading my post incorrectly, however you might be interpreting it as me meaning that FW isn't important or necessary to anyone. It is just not important to me. Very big difference, and thus I still disagree with its removal from the MB.

Thank you for getting my head clear I can't dislike the new MB as my gf just got one last night and for her FW doesn't even equate as a care, thus she fits that market. As long as she can show stuff to her college class while teaching and using the podium she's golden. It is a nice little Mac but I will in the end pony up for a MBP for the FW The only thing that everyone in the Apple Store did agree on was the lack of FW and not to start another issue, the new display will only work on the new MB and MBP and is not backward compatable Not sure if it's totally true but that area I'm not really giving a second thought about.

 

[kironin]

So he thinks it is OK to expect people to throw away their perfectly fine FireWire camcorders and spend money on a USB 2 one for no advantage of theirs, in this economy?

I call that being out of touch. Not a good sign at all.

Yes, what do you expect from a billionaire. We are all supposed to replace all our equipment when we buy a new computer. Not really different than the XP to Vista transition in that regard.

It's complete BS to throw out a connection port that maybe is 10$ in hardware costs to a large number of devices that CONSUMERS are still using. I don't need or want a new HD camera. I do need to connect to my firewire devices and hard drives. Guess I will be looking to the refurb and used make over market for quite a while in the future instead of buying from Apple.

 

[editguy]

Someone may have mentioned this already, but for me the lack of Firewire is a deal-breaker because of Target Disk Mode. I'm just fine using USB2 or ethernet or whatever for file transfer, and my firewire devices all have USB2 ports as well, but Target Disk Mode has saved my virtual hide (and that of family members as well) more than once and I can't justify having a laptop without it.

Not that I'm even in the market to get a Macbook right now, but it would be near perfect for me over the Pro if not for this one thing. That said, anyone want to trade me their 12" PBG4? I still want Apple to make a 12" Macbook.

I'm keeping my12" Powerbook G4 until I die. It's a reminder of a company that not only used to get it, but get it right!

 

[chadder007]

The people who posted links to DV camera adapters are not getting it. That doesn't convert FireWire to USB. It translates the DV codec to whatever windows video garbage that USB cameras use. It does not make your USB port into a FireWire port.

I have about 20 FireWire hard drives that are completely worthless with a new MacBook. And I was planning on buying one. The MacBook Pro is too large and too expensive. I can live with a glossy screen (but I still think it sucks) and the lack of a ExpressCard slot, but no FireWire = no sale. It would cost Apple about $1 to add FireWire. The chipset has FireWire in it. All they need is a connector.

More like 5 dollars for the firewire port, but yes.
Looks like Apple and company have decided to save pennies on a connector but loose dollars on lost sales this time around.

 

[localoid]

Yea, I really think Apple has turned to being updated in all the newest technologies. So everytime you hear that a notebook or a product is having a major update, expect all technologies that are old and might not be used after 2 years to be dumped.

I mean, even if people now would be happy that Apple included firewire, maybe two years later it'll become a useless port as most new people who buy Apple laptops use newer camcorders with USB only.

This way the computer is updated for the future.

Where do you people get this from? Firewire isn't dead. There's more devices available with Firewire now than there ever has been. And it sure to #$% isn't something just used for "camcorders". Steve "Out of Touch" Jobs and his blind followers may believe all of that but no person living in the real world of video or audio has this misconception. It is the !@#^#%@#^ standard that anyone with even 1/2 a clue uses because it @^#%^#%^@ works!

 

[apfhex]

If that were true, where is the eSATA port? Or, HDMI?

Is DisplayPort not newer and better than HDMI? (though I wish there weren't so many competing standards)

 

[azentropy]

Petitions won't work, only lost sales.

Yes and no. You have to tell them WHY they lost the sale. As things are right now any decrease in sales will be wrote off as "bad economy" rather than "bad product".

 

[Adjei]

Apple won't lose any sales, actually see their sales increasing. People thought ipod sales would fall off after dropping firewire.

 

[bilbo--baggins]

The lack of a Firewire port is the ONLY reason I'm not getting a new MacBook. I cannot afford a MacBook Pro at the moment, and I need firewire for my Canopus ADVC 55 video capture, and my Apogee Duet (audio interface), both of which I've bought within the last 12 months.

 

[cube]

Apple won't lose any sales, actually see their sales increasing. People thought ipod sales would fall off after dropping firewire.

It is WAY worse to remove compatibility from a host than from a peripheral.

 

[Cheffy Dave]

Yeah.

I have 3 HD cameras, 2 SD-DV cameras, and 1 DV deck that all require firewire. Total value? About $12,000.

Thanks Steve, I'll get right on replacing all those.

And to those who say "Well, can't you afford a Macbook Pro?" I ALREADY have a $3,500 Mac Pro and a $2,000 iMac. It would be nice to have a realitively inexpenisve little Macbook that's easy to carry around and can extend my abilities onto the road in a small way. Do I have to buy the freak'n top-of-the-line in EVERY category? I can't invest heavily in a desktop and just have a nice little, lighter, mid-range laptop to carry around?

Gah!

(And please don't point out the $999 Macbook to me. The point is that my only 2 solutions are to buy 'yesterday's technology' or buy the most expensive laptop. Those are both lame solutions.)

How about a BMB refurb for $1099. I just got mine and according to Cocconut Battery it is 2 weeks old, just taken from it's pristine Apple Box, put in a plain cardboard one and in my hands. Dude, it's brand new. Other than being removed from its original carton, it's new Now's the time. In a month they'll be gone. Same thing happened to me with my 2.2 BMB when the 2.4's came out. When they are gone, so will be Firewire!