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Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

underwater said:
I would have cut firewire on the lower-end laptops also. Very small number of people use it... cost reduction is more important for Apple's current strategy of converting low-end PC laptop users to apple... it's the $ sweatspot.

Firewire is already dead in the consumer markets... it's really as simple at that. USB 2.0 won several years ago.

FWIW, my Sony A1U HDV prosumer camera is Firewire only, but I would never edit HD on a lower-end MacBook.
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Except your argument fails, since Apple isn't passing on the cost reduction to it's customers. They are clearly just using this as a means to push people up to MacBook Pro.

To the people claiming that "FireWire is dead, USB is the future" or that "it doesn't belong in a consumer laptop":
It is not only professionals that use these tools. I myself am a hobby musician (as I spend most of my time studying computer science) and I have neither the need nor the budget for a MBP. But if you're going to do music, you're going to need at least a basic sound card to hook your stuff into. And if you need a sound card, you need FireWire, since USB for streaming audio is a no no. There are virtually no good USB sound cards on the market and the ones that do exist are terrible. Additionally, FireWire 400 is still faster in practice than any USB variant out there. That's not the characteristic of a "legacy" product, now is it?

I was on the edge of buying my first Mac (actually I've been through three MB refunds due to case and screen issues, but that's a different story :p), but this was a major dealbreaker. I love OS X. I love all neat third-party applications like CoverSutra, TextMate and Growl. I was also thrilled at the possibility of developing Cocoa apps. But Apple hardware is just terrible for its price. It saddens me to say that. Needless to say, I'm not paying 6 months of rent for a MBP, just to get a FireWire port.
 
Tummy said:
I don't know of any. Most consumer level people I know (I define consumer as office worker types, college kids, housewife, etc) don't even know what Firewire is or even have external drives. The ones that do buy the cheapest drives possible, Western Digital USB external drives, or whatever is cheapest from Office Max, Staples, or Best Buy.

I wouldn't call people who know what they're doing or doing this stuff for money, consumers.
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Just because you seem to know ignorant people doesn't meant that everyone is.. Most of the people I know using macs do indeed use firewire in some capacity but video, audio, target disk mode, etc. Right now, Apple is giving us far less flexibility than many less expensive windows machines. You are going to see far fewer amateur video and audio people using macs because of this..

Isaac
 
syndalis said:
as a musician... I have a mac pro, and a macbook pro.

I would never ever ever consider running reason, logic, drums from hell, etc. on a macbook. You are creating a situation that does not exist.
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If you think the CPU in a MacBook Pro with the same CPU clock frequency as in a MacBook actually runs faster then I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you. Yes, I know Apple puts faster CPUs in the so-called "pros", but if everything else is equal you're not getting "pro" anything but some bells and whistles that audio doesn't need (GPU, etc.)
 
Hi
Maury said:
A friend of mine recently purchased a Dell laptop so he could run Excel - he needs VBA. It had a glossy screen, and after trying it for a few days, has given up in disgust, finding it unable to be used except in cases of highly indirect light.

We went out last night looking for a machine with a matte screen. The only ones we found were last-model MacBook Pros.

So I'm not sure there's anything Apple can do about this, it appears all LCD's now come with glossy screens. True for desktop monitors as well.

Maury
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This was my huge concern when I purchased my first MacBook, especially after using some Dells, HPs, ... I can't even explain why ( I don't know ) but while Apple's are glossy, they aren't nearly as difficult to see in most conditions as 'PC' brands. I wish I knew why.
 
No sure if it was Steve Jobs that said it or not but in all honesty what was said is just bull. Many cameras only use USB for still image transfer. Extremely high majority of cameras use FW for transfer (all of the pro decks). Then there are some cameras that capture on flash cards but with them (Pana for example) you need to use FW with all Mac's. If you use USB the media doesn't even mount.
 
it's really simple folks

Yawn, different day - same old whining. It's simple folks, if you NEED Firewire, don't buy a computer without it. Many many many laptops don't have Firewire. Whining won't help.
 
I look on the floor to my right and see my B&W G3 tower.

There's no floppy drive! OMG! What was Steve thinking!? Sell now, all is lost, Apple is doomed!


seriously people, get over it. Firewire now costs $500, and may well be phased out in the near future.
 
Another way to give feedback?

arkmannj said:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html

let your voices be heard. enough people complain and they will get the business sense to rethink it.
Click to expand...

I've left feedback at those sites, but I wonder whether it matters.

My guess is that if a lot of people call the SALES phone number to order a Macbook, then interrupt to ask whether your existing Firewire peripherals will be compatible... THAT might get some attention. I don't know whether or how the sales managers collect info from the phone reps, but if I ran Apple, I'd keep track of sales calls that don't result in sales.

Just an idea.
 
syndalis said:
as a musician... I have a mac pro, and a macbook pro.

I would never ever ever consider running reason, logic, drums from hell, etc. on a macbook. You are creating a situation that does not exist.
Click to expand...

That's ridiculous man, the MB has plenty of horsepower compared to the MBP, if you had said you have a mac pro and a macbook I would have given you some credit, but it's absolutely false stating the MBP is good at audio and a MB is not, they're they 'were' the same at almost every aspect.
 
Spread the petition, write letters

Everyone here who actually wants this decision to be reversed should do everything in their power to spread the word about signing the online petition:

http://www.petitiononline.com/MB1394/petition.html

I fear that we will have to be very loud in order to be heard on this issue and actually make a difference. There had to be some bizarre thinking going on within Apple for this decision to make it into production. If we want to wake up Apple we will have to make a ruckus unlike anything they've ever seen before.

I don't write letters or even send emails much but I've already sent two emails to sjobs@apple.com trying to throw my weight against this idiocy. Now I'm going to attempt to find a few mailing addresses that might actually reach someone who will take the time to read a physical letter. This is really unprecedented for me to think seriously about taking the time to put actual letters in snail mail, but I am very much afraid that it will take this kind of input for them to wake up.

I would appreciate any help in finding names and mailing addresses that will reach the appropriate parties and have a chance to correct this wrongness in time for the next production cycle. I would also highly recommend that everyone who has already signed the petition and posted to forums like this should take the time to sit down and compose a short, succinct and thoughtful physical letter and mail it out ASAP via certified mail. That way someone at the receiving end has to sign for it. It will help get their attention.

Thanks.
 
Why are people comparing this to when apple removed floppy drives?


This is more like Apple removing CD-Rom drives and leaving Floppy as the only way to go.


It's backwards, Firewire is the faster and newer technology.
 
caktusaurus said:
Except your argument fails, since Apple isn't passing on the cost reduction to it's customers. They are clearly just using this as a means to push people up to MacBook Pro.

To the people claiming that "FireWire is dead, USB is the future" or that "it doesn't belong in a consumer laptop":
It is not only professionals that use these tools. I myself am a hobby musician (as I spend most of my time studying computer science) and I have neither the need nor the budget for a MBP. But if you're going to do music, you're going to need at least a basic sound card to hook your stuff into. And if you need a sound card, you need FireWire, since USB for streaming audio is a no no. There are virtually no good USB sound cards on the market and the ones that do exist are terrible. Additionally, FireWire 400 is still faster in practice than any USB variant out there. That's not the characteristic of a "legacy" product, now is it?

I was on the edge of buying my first Mac (actually I've been through three MB refunds due to case and screen issues, but that's a different story :p), but this was a major dealbreaker. I love OS X. I love all neat third-party applications like CoverSutra, TextMate and Growl. I was also thrilled at the possibility of developing Cocoa apps. But Apple hardware is just terrible for its price. It saddens me to say that. Needless to say, I'm not paying 6 months of rent for a MBP, just to get a FireWire port.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I hate the whole professional/consumer arguments.

The reason I have stuck with Macs is because they work, they save me time, they increase my productivity, and in the end they save me money. Many of the solutions offered to overcome the lack of FireWire would make me less productive, waste time, and spend more money to get USB peripherals. Because of that I'm now not going to purchase the new MacBook. Apple probably considers this an acceptable loss—they would rather snatch a bunch of Windows users.
 
FJ218700 said:
I look on the floor to my right and see my B&W G3 tower.

There's no floppy drive! OMG! What was Steve thinking!? Sell now, all is lost, Apple is doomed!


seriously people, get over it. Firewire now costs $500, and may well be phased out in the near future.
Click to expand...

And if that's what Apple does, they've lost everyone who needs firewire. There are viable alternatives to Apple.
 
Adjei said:
Apple's stop tanking has nothing to do with how much money they are making, last time I checked most stock exchanges in the world are tanking.
Click to expand...

A lot of it has to do with the direction they took in this last update. E.g.: "But amid theories that the United States is in its worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, Apple's steadfast focus on highly stylized, more expensive products makes one wonder if executives have their heads in the sand..."
 
Chaos123x said:
Why are people comparing this to when apple removed floppy drives?


This is more like Apple removing CD-Rom drives and leaving Floppy as the only way to go.


It's backwards, Firewire is the faster and newer technology.
Click to expand...

The floppy drives were removed, but you could still connect an external one.

There's no way of adding FireWire compatibility to the MacBook.
 
Chaos123x said:
Why are people comparing this to when apple removed floppy drives?


This is more like Apple removing CD-Rom drives and leaving Floppy as the only way to go.


It's backwards, Firewire is the faster and newer technology.
Click to expand...

It's a straw man argument. They know they have no position of substance to argue from. So, they take something that sounds remotely similar to try to make their point. When floppy's were eliminated, everyone knew their day was done. There were better, and higher capacity, ways of moving data. In this case Apple is removing the better most effective way.
 
editguy said:
It's a straw man argument. They know they have no position of substance to argue from. So, they take something that sounds remotely similar to try to make their point. When floppy's were eliminated, everyone knew their day was done. There were better, and higher capacity, ways of moving data. In this case Apple is removing the better most effective way.
Click to expand...

The point is not if they are removing something that is still better for now, but that they are making the machines unusable with a lot of hardware that people have that cannot be by any means considered obsolete.
 
FJ218700 said:
maybe they don't care about those 1% of people who absolutely need firewire on a consumer laptop ?
Click to expand...
So, you've surveyed apple computer owners and came up with the 1% figure? That's ridiculous. Just educational facilities using firewire on Macs would be a very large number. And if you and others don't care about firewire, why are you discussing it in this thread? You already have what you want. Obviously some of you are so smitten with Apple that if the told you they were coming to your home do disable some of the functionality of your Mac, you would welcome them.
 
cube said:
The point is not if they are removing something that is still better for now, but that they are making the machines unusable with a lot of hardware that people have that cannot be by any means considered obsolete.
Click to expand...

Yes, absolute right
 
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