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I'm almost afraid to buy a MacBook now. What if we convince Jobs to include the FireWire, wouldn't it be dumb to know that you've just missed your chance to get it? I want to buy one now, but it would be great if it has FireWire. :(

I for one will not buy a MacBook until it has FireWire.
 
I'm almost afraid to buy a MacBook now. What if Jobs gets convinced to include the FireWire, wouldn't it be dumb to know that you've just missed your chance to get it? I want to buy one now, but it would be great if it has FireWire. :(

If in USA: $1499 refurb 2.5 GHz MBP with 512MB of VRAM

Elsewhere: sorry, "new", "$999" whitebook with Superdrive and FW400
 
I for one will not buy a MacBook until it has FireWire.
I want to switch from a PC (Vista) to a Mac. I just can't wait another year for an update. :D

@cube, thanks, but I'm not interested in a MacBook Pro -- just too big and heavy for my needs. I don't like the 'old' plastic MacBooks either.
 
I want to switch from a PC (Vista) to a Mac. I just can't wait another year for an update. :D

Hell, the white MB for $999 will be an upgrade when compared to Vista.

How dependent are you on FireWire?

For me, all my peripherals excluding keyboard, mouse, and printer are FireWire. I would take a pretty big hit if I couldn't use them. Since my current MB (with FireWire) is still ticking, I don't need a replacement yet. Once it comes time to replace it, there sure as hell better be a small Apple notebook with FireWire.

I understand your position though.
 
No lack of chatter extolling the merits of FW here, but I'll chime in as well. I'm not in the market for a MacBook, but at this time, I'd never buy a machine without FireWire. It's been the best high speed external connection protocol since 2000, though I haven't ever used eSATA. USB implementation on the Mac seems poor; some anecdotal evidence of mine suggests that USB in Win is very good in comparison. Anyway, target mode is a very serious loss and one of the best diagnostic tools for Macs ever. Can the same be achieved over USB?
 
No lack of chatter extolling the merits of FW here, but I'll chime in as well. I'm not in the market for a MacBook, but at this time, I'd never buy a machine without FireWire. It's been the best high speed external connection protocol since 2000, though I haven't ever used eSATA. USB implementation on the Mac seems poor; some anecdotal evidence of mine suggests that USB in Win is very good in comparison. Anyway, target mode is a very serious loss and one of the best diagnostic tools for Macs ever. Can the same be achieved over USB?

Not at this point.
 
Anyway, target mode is a very serious loss and one of the best diagnostic tools for Macs ever. Can the same be achieved over USB?

The FireWire specification imposes chipset DMA capability. USB needs the CPU.
 
Ah, so my question really was to get at what may be possible, rather than what is currently possible. So is it not at all possible?

I think it should be possible to add it to the firmware. After all, there are Asus motherboards that boot a little Linux to surf the web from flash in 6 seconds, and they already could play CDs before without booting the system.
 
No lack of chatter extolling the merits of FW here, but I'll chime in as well. I'm not in the market for a MacBook, but at this time, I'd never buy a machine without FireWire. It's been the best high speed external connection protocol since 2000, though I haven't ever used eSATA. USB implementation on the Mac seems poor; some anecdotal evidence of mine suggests that USB in Win is very good in comparison. Anyway, target mode is a very serious loss and one of the best diagnostic tools for Macs ever. Can the same be achieved over USB?

Maybe there's a diagnostic connector hidden in one of the ports (I suspect that proprietary mini-displayport). Apple repair facilities use a firewire connection for all the diagnostic stuff. The Macbook Air's USB, for instance, has some extra functionality to make the external superdrive work.

It would be possible that the Macbooks have a hybrid USB/Firewire connector that is disabled for the end-user. Maybe if enough people protest agsinst the lack of firewire, Apple might release an adapter that plugs into the USB and gives you true firewire. Apple has done something similar before with 802.11 draft n. You bought a Macbook Pro with draft n hardware, but you didn't know it. Then Apple let you upgrade for a small fee and you were able to use the hardware's full potential.

CPU makers actually often sell the same processor with different price tags; the cheaper model is just the same with a performance throttle on it. It's cheaper to produce one thing and sell it to different target groups.
 
Err... the new Macbook has no dedicated graphics. It has an integrated chip like the plastic Macbooks. The Macbook Pro keeps the dedicated chip but gains an integrated one to save power when you don't need all that graphics power.

Ok. Fair point - it's not dedicated in the respect that the GPU has its own memory allocation, rather it's utilising system RAM.

Besides, it certainly appears to be much more capable than the previous Mac Books utilising the NVIDIA GeForce 9400M as listed here.

But to reiterate my previous point, in my eyes the lack of Firewire is to highlight a differentiation with the pro line as in the Mac Book Pro.
 
Right now thats all its for. Since Jobs threw FW users under the bus, you just might see this type of product expanded to support other products.

There is also the issue of if this kind of stuff can actually function adequately for real-time needs, of which BTW, DV capture is an example.

Don't forget that this is a stop-gap solution from an unknown company for lame PCs without FireWire. Where are the user reviews?
 
This cannot be done.

Read my post please. I was speculating that one of the ports on the Macbook is a hybrid, i.e. USB plug with more capabilities than USB. Just like the USB in the Macbook Air that has something extra to make the external Superdrive work and the old Macbook Pro that shipped with a draft-n wireless chip that could surprisingly be unlocked later via software.

Does anyone know how diagnostics are performed on a Macbook Air?

Even DVI is a hybrid standard: it does both digital and analogue (VGA with an adapter).


EDIT: I'm trying to find a picture of the Macbook's logic board to see if the USB's soldering points are more than usual (Firewire has more pins than USB). That picture from kodawarisan looks like one port's connection is covered by that plate on purpose :)

http://mactree.sannet.ne.jp/~kodawarisan/macbook_2008_fullsize/DSC_5562.jpg
 
Again. That's only for capturing DV.

And, it only captures through proprietary software, not FCP, and it has to be edited with the proprietary software. I captures it as an mpeg. And jsut becasue they sell it doesn't mean it works well. I suspect you would give up on it sooner than later.
 
There is also the issue of if this kind of stuff can actually function adequately for real-time needs, of which BTW, DV capture is an example.

Don't forget that this is a stop-gap solution from an unknown company for lame PCs without FireWire. Where are the user reviews?

Exactly. And you can't help but wonder why anyone would by it, particulary at that price, since most PC notebooks sold in the last few years have an expansion card slot so you could add a firewire port. Because the USB relies on the bus I don't believe there's any way that anyone could convert it to true firewire. They're incompatible, apples and oranges.
 
Read my post please. I was speculating that one of the ports on the Macbook is a hybrid, i.e. USB plug with more capabilities than USB. Just like the USB in the Macbook Air that has something extra to make the external Superdrive work and the old Macbook Pro that shipped with a draft-n wireless chip that could surprisingly be unlocked later via software.

Does anyone know how diagnostics are performed on a Macbook Air?

Even DVI is a hybrid standard: it does both digital and analogue (VGA with an adapter).

I suppose it is possible, but I also suppose it is implausible. Such a hybrid type would probably require efforts from many organizations, not just Apple. Since such a hybrid is not known, I doubt any such thing will surface.
 
They sell this cable mostly for people fearful of opening a desktop PC or clueless on how to add a PCMCIA card. Also known as clueless consumers (99% of the world).

At one point they sold this cable at Bestbuy (under a different brand) and I personally know someone who used it with a Win XP notebook that has no firewire and a bad PCMCIA port and he claims it worked well. Obviously, your mileage will vary!

I wouldn't recommend it since I'm always fearful of adapters. I like native connections. While we're on that subject I wish Apple would have used an Intel chipset, but Nvidia graphics. My experience with Nvidia and ATI chipsets are that they have quirky USB, memory interfaces, etc...


Exactly. And you can't help but wonder why anyone would by it, particulary at that price, since most PC notebooks sold in the last few years have an expansion card slot so you could add a firewire port. Because the USB relies on the bus I don't believe there's any way that anyone could convert it to true firewire. They're incompatible, apples and oranges.
 
They sell this cable mostly for people fearful of opening a desktop PC or clueless on how to add a PCMCIA card. Also known as clueless consumers (99% of the world).

At one point they sold this cable at Bestbuy (under a different brand) and I personally know someone who used it with a Win XP notebook that has no firewire and a bad PCMCIA port and he claims it worked well. Obviously, your mileage will vary!

I wouldn't recommend it since I'm always fearful of adapters. I like native connections. While we're on that subject I wish Apple would have used an Intel chipset, but Nvidia graphics. My experience with Nvidia and ATI chipsets are that they have quirky USB, memory interfaces, etc...

Well, if you're (not meaning you , but the general "you") so ignorant you cant shove a PCMCIA card into a slot you shouldn't be trying to connect a USB or firewire cable either. You should also be kept away from sharp objects.
I have had great success with card slot adapters.
 
There are a lot of people like me who are just students or people who can't possibly afford a macbook pro and have in the past used their macbooks for editing video using imovie. Us folks don't have a lot of money but we love the apple platform like crazy. We don't want a super dupa macbook pro, but i feel this firewire port problem is just to push people away from the macbook line and spend more more on the macbook pro. Since even some of the early iMacs, Apple has included the firewire port and it has become a cool way to transfer files.

Firewire was one of the technologies that made Apple really cool. Using firewire on the iPod, i used to put a version of os x on it and boot from it at school and have all my settings all on this drive. It was really like taking a portable image of a mac with you. Firewire allows target mode which is great for transfering files. Say if my friend's mac goes down i can reinstall osx using firewire through my mac.

I am really sad to see firewire go, ever buy an ipod and for the first sync get fedup of 40gbs of data having to go through USB 2. Firewire seems to me to have much faster real world transfer speeds.

I personally have two hard drives that use the firewire standard. Yes i can use usb too, but i would need two cables for that, one for usb and one to power up the drive. Also the speed using USB 2, is not as fast in realtime performance as firewire.

I was actually genuinely going to buy one of these. I have a Mac Mini and old g4 one and i badly need an update. However recently, i feel apple hasn't really been producing anything at the entry level that is worth upgrading too.

I am looking for a portable or a mini not an iMac.

The Mac Minis are shockingly out of date and they have the sheer cheek to charge 499 pounds for the high end model.

I was gonna get a white Macbook, knowing that updates were coming i waited, i would have bought the new Macbook with the high price tag but not without the firewire port. The glossy screen is poor. What happens to pros who want to buy a Macbook but don't want the glossy screen. These oversaturated colour inaccurate screens are just a nightmare. Colour accuracy is so off, it isn't even funny.

Well enough is enough and i sent an email into Steve Jobs. Lets hope that he might come round to seeing this from our point of view.

Dear Mr Jobs,

I would like to give you some feedback from a consumer's point of view regarding your Mac lineup. Firstly I have been an apple user for a long time and have been a big fan of your company and your philosophy. I was eagerly anticipating the introduction of the new MacBooks, I have been in the market for an entry level Mac for quite a long time and it is getting harder and harder to purchase anything in the entry level market at Apple.

Let us take the Mac Mini, now shockingly out of date and neglected for so long. I love this product and touted as the low cost affordable solution, this product has seemed to have been forgotten. Please do not kill this product as with a decent update it would do very well.

The MacBook was finally my upgrade path until i learnt that my Firewire DV Camera, 3 external firewire LaCie Drives and scanner will not work with the new Macbook. I was wondering if you could please ponder/consider to add firewire in future versions of the entry level Macbook. Also the prices in the UK are simply a daylight robbery. I love your platform because of iLife, the stability and security. I won't leave the Mac platform, I will wait till January.


Thank you kindly for your help and your time reading this email,
 
All laptops should have all the different ports. Who cares how thin it is if they have to keep taking stuff out.
 
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