Well, Apple itself does the diagnostics throught firewire so it's possible they're already adopting that new Firewire specification that allows it to be tunneled through the Ethernet port. I wonder how they diagnose the Macbook Air though.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Well, Apple itself does the diagnostics throught firewire so it's possible they're already adopting that new Firewire specification that allows it to be tunneled through the Ethernet port. I wonder how they diagnose the Macbook Air though.
Interesting point. You could have been a bit clearer about what photoshop work you did, but it seems like you:
- inserted a FW port where an USB port used to be
- moved the audio ports down a bit to create room
- and created a new section of mobo to hold them (at the bottom, near the RAM slots)
Regarding that new section of mobo, it does look like something was cut away there on the original photo. At first i thought that was to make room for the battery or something. To check, I had a look at the other ifixit photos, and interestingly there doesn't seem to be anything much there using the space.
Look at the middle photo on this page, especially at the bottom right hand corner of the logic board (motherboard) near the RAM slots.
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/First-Look/Mac/MacBook-Unibody/Page-4
and the top photo here
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/First-Look/Mac/MacBook-Unibody/Page-6
(I'd post the photos here but can't figure out how to get a link.) All I can see where the missing section of logic board should go is:
- a flat ribbon cable to the HDD
- some empty space
- a black plastic bit (possibly a wire to an audio port?)
none of which seem very vital, and there seems to be easily space to move the ports up or create room for at least a 4-pin FW port.
I'm a bit late to join this discussion but I'd just like to say the following:
BOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Prior to the removal of Firewire the problem of only having 2 USB ports wasn't too much since external storage could (and should) have used the Firewire 400 port. Now that's gone the 2 USB ports are rather limiting and has removed the option of better external storage performance. I can't see any way in which this can be seen as a good decision. I mean, if nothing else they should at least have provided a 3rd USB port.
Frankly, I'm still miffed that the Firewire 400 port has been removed from the MacBook Pro even when Firewire 800 is still available. I just don't see a good or reasonable reason for doing this.
BOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Prior to the removal of Firewire the problem of only having 2 USB ports wasn't too much since external storage could (and should) have used the Firewire 400 port. Now that's gone the 2 USB ports are rather limiting and has removed the option of better external storage performance. I can't see any way in which this can be seen as a good decision. I mean, if nothing else they should at least have provided a 3rd USB port.
Frankly, I'm still miffed that the Firewire 400 port has been removed from the MacBook Pro even when Firewire 800 is still available. I just don't see a good or reasonable reason for doing this.
MacBook intentionally crippled
Dear MrCrowbar,
I just (more or less) copied the port layout from the MacBook Pro, and then copied & pasted a logic board part from the other side of the RAM slots.
Your comment about the empty space was exactly the reason for giving PS-ing a try. It's not like Apple to leave space in such a confined enclosure unused. It is also very common to start a PCB design with a rectangular piece of board, and sequentially remove unneeded and unwanted areas. This specific 'cutting' job is just too obvious...
Also: if you take a look at the MB Pro board (http://www.me.com/gallery/#100032), you can still 'see' the rectangular shape the board was made off. Hardly any cutting there, unless absolutely obligatory (2 fan-holes, room for the RAM slots and a little cut-out for some wiring).
Dear MrCrowbar,
I just (more or less) copied the port layout from the MacBook Pro, and then copied & pasted a logic board part from the other side of the RAM slots.
Your comment about the empty space was exactly the reason for giving PS-ing a try. It's not like Apple to leave space in such a confined enclosure unused. It is also very common to start a PCB design with a rectangular piece of board, and sequentially remove unneeded and unwanted areas. This specific 'cutting' job is just too obvious...
Also: if you take a look at the MB Pro board (http://www.me.com/gallery/#100032), you can still 'see' the rectangular shape the board was made off. Hardly any cutting there, unless absolutely obligatory (2 fan-holes, room for the RAM slots and a little cut-out for some wiring).
You cannot even use both USB2 ports because they are too close together. Actually the MB has only one USB2 input.
Classic Steve... so matter-of-fact that we only need USB 2. Apple is the Socialism of computer companies.
-Clive
Well, i could have understood the argument if he replaced USB 2.0 and Firewire with USB 3.0 - but to replace Firewire and go totally USB 2.0 just doesn't make sense to me.
Well, that's the thing, isnt it? They didn't "replace" FireWire, they just nixed it.
USB 3.0 won't be ready for another year. Even if it were available, it doesn't help people who have FireWire devices, nor provide target disk mode.
The Air is a niche book. It's more like a netbook. No one would expect it to have a bunch of ports. It's not a valid comparison.
After seeing the MB and MBP in person, I wonder if Apple could replace the Ethernet port with a FW800 port on the MB.
Most folks I know use their laptops via WiFi, so this would not be much of a limitation. And if they need LAN access, they can use the USB to Ethernet adapter that Apple already sells.
Seems like this solution would solve some issues. Might create some others, however.
In my personal case, I would much rather have a FW800 port than an Ethernet port if I had to make the choice.
Most folks I know use their laptops via WiFi, so this would not be much of a limitation. And if they need LAN access, they can use the USB to Ethernet adapter that Apple already sells.
Seems like this solution would solve some issues. Might create some others, however.
In my personal case, I would much rather have a FW800 port than an Ethernet port if I had to make the choice.
If they had done away with both the ethernet and FW port and replaced it with an Express slot, I think people would have been less irritated. At least then you would have a choice as to how to customize your Mac to your needs but, alas, that is not the Apple way.
I would too, but since the USB-to-ethernet adapter only supports 10/100 Mbps, some people would be upset over losing gigabit ethernet.
Yes, Steve Jobs' mantra is "fewer choices, fewer choices, fewer choices."
True.
But I would offer that most people do not have FTTH connections, so even 100Mbps second, Internet wise is plenty fast.
Of course there are those who would say they do computer to computer or computer to external storage via Ethernet and they need the speed.
Can't please everyone.
I was intrigued by removal of FW port.
Yes, it's an argument to differentiate between "consumer" and "pro" versions, but I felt it's not that simple (it would be stupid).
And here's my conclusions after small research on the topic:
1) They changed their manufacturing process and it's not a change that you can make every year. So the decisions taken here will live for several generations of hardware.
2) Fewer and fewer devices use firewire. Nobody seems to adopt even FW800 (except for Apple itself), not speaking about much faster versions of a standard.
3) Intel is actively pushing USB3.0 which I'm sure will be out next year and be quickly adopted (given royalty-free license, in contrast to firewire).
4) USB3.0 has the same form-factor as USB2.0 (from case-design POV).
5) USB3.0 has resolved (at least on paper) the issues with high CPU usage and bandwidth reservation (it now has QoS, and takes into account real-time applications).
So the only industry that heavily relies on FireWire is audio-interface manufacturers. This industry is very-well known for slowly adopting all interfaces right before they die (Hello, SCSI).
I know the problem, as I am a musician myself and do use an external audio interface.
But I am sure that all this means: Firewire will be dead in a few yeas (say, 2 or 3).
And all audio interface manufacturers will soon tell you to buy their new and shiny next-generation (... etc.) USB3.0 interfaces.
P.S. Why they keep Ethernet - it is far from being dead.
Yes, it's an argument to differentiate between "consumer" and "pro" versions, but I felt it's not that simple (it would be stupid).
And here's my conclusions after small research on the topic:
1) They changed their manufacturing process and it's not a change that you can make every year. So the decisions taken here will live for several generations of hardware.
2) Fewer and fewer devices use firewire. Nobody seems to adopt even FW800 (except for Apple itself), not speaking about much faster versions of a standard.
3) Intel is actively pushing USB3.0 which I'm sure will be out next year and be quickly adopted (given royalty-free license, in contrast to firewire).
4) USB3.0 has the same form-factor as USB2.0 (from case-design POV).
5) USB3.0 has resolved (at least on paper) the issues with high CPU usage and bandwidth reservation (it now has QoS, and takes into account real-time applications).
So the only industry that heavily relies on FireWire is audio-interface manufacturers. This industry is very-well known for slowly adopting all interfaces right before they die (Hello, SCSI).
I know the problem, as I am a musician myself and do use an external audio interface.
But I am sure that all this means: Firewire will be dead in a few yeas (say, 2 or 3).
And all audio interface manufacturers will soon tell you to buy their new and shiny next-generation (... etc.) USB3.0 interfaces.
P.S. Why they keep Ethernet - it is far from being dead.
Doesn't anyone damn well read - do I *REALLY* need to explain things to you - really?!
If there was USB 3.0 - atleast Jobs could claim that he replaced it with a superior technology - setting the trend and all that BS.
Christ, this forum becomes more and more depressing each day - where I have to hand hold people through to the logical conclusion of a given argument.
Yes, since it's as easy as getting rid of all your FW equipment and getting USB ones... or just going with a MacBook Pro...
(*ducks*)
But there isn't USB 3.0, so you have no argument. You are just wasting everyone's time.
Yes I am serious.
The MBA already uses this method.
Apple already has a nice USB to Ethernet adapter. About the same size as their USB to modem adapter.
Most folks I know who have laptops connect via WiFi so Ethernet is not needed. And for those who do, they can purchase an USB to Ethernet adapter. They can leave it connected to their LAN cable. Just connect when they are at their LAN location. Simple.
Personally, I would much rather have a FW800 port so that I could:
- Do faster HD clones on a weekly basis.
- Operate in Target Disk Mode.
- Transfer large files quickly to/from an external HD.
YMMV.
Sure why not? I mean really how many people actually use Ethernet versus Wireless. Ethernet isn't included in the Air (if you don't count the adapter).
EDIT Beaten by sushi.
Ethernet not being built into the Air has nothing to do with its popularity. It's a compromise to design the Air as it is. Most sub-notebooks sacrifice display size and keyboard size in order to build in a respectable number of ports. Apple sacrificed practicality for form.
MrCrowbar that's where the latch is.
Oh, that makes sense. Thanks for pointing it out.