Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

[Quillz]

But there isn't USB 3.0, so you have no argument. You are just wasting everyone's time.

USB 3.0 is being finalized and USB 3.0 devices will appear next year.

But the point he's making (I think) is that it might turn out that the two USB ports on the MacBook are 3.0 ready. If 3.0 is backwards compatible with 2.0, then perhaps this is possible, but I doubt it.

The fact is, Apple killed off FireWire because it was unpopular among consumers. Simple as that.

 

[FrankieTDouglas]

Yes I am serious.

The MBA already uses this method.

Apple already has a nice USB to Ethernet adapter. About the same size as their USB to modem adapter.

Most folks I know who have laptops connect via WiFi so Ethernet is not needed. And for those who do, they can purchase an USB to Ethernet adapter. They can leave it connected to their LAN cable. Just connect when they are at their LAN location. Simple.

Personally, I would much rather have a FW800 port so that I could:
- Do faster HD clones on a weekly basis.
- Operate in Target Disk Mode.
- Transfer large files quickly to/from an external HD.

YMMV.

The main point is, why not have both? Are people that easily submissive to other opinions on how things should be? Keep your ethernet instead of already trying to discovered solutions for its demise, and also keep your firewire.

 

[diamond.g]

Ethernet not being built into the Air has nothing to do with its popularity. It's a compromise to design the Air as it is. Most sub-notebooks sacrifice display size and keyboard size in order to build in a respectable number of ports. Apple sacrificed practicality for form.

It was more a setting of precedent. Would people be mad if Apple replaced the ethernet port with a FW port? Probably, but at least you can still use an ethernet adapter.

In respect to the USB being 3.0 compat in waiting. I wonder if they are using the Nvidia USB controller. AFAIK Nvidia and AMD were both complaining about being behind Intel in the development of USB 3.0 controllers. I would be surprised if they could create a controller that works so quickly after complaining.

 

[CrackedButter]

The fact is, Apple killed off FireWire because it was unpopular among consumers. Simple as that.

I don't think it is that simple and because unpopular is not the right word to use. A lot of people here are assuming ignorance of that particular port, not a dislike for it.

 

[Quillz]

It was more a setting of precedent. Would people be mad if Apple replaced the ethernet port with a FW port? Probably, but at least you can still use an ethernet adapter.

In respect to the USB being 3.0 compat in waiting. I wonder if they are using the Nvidia USB controller. AFAIK Nvidia and AMD were both complaining about being behind Intel in the development of USB 3.0 controllers. I would be surprised if they could create a controller that works so quickly after complaining.

The precedent argument made sense back in 1998 when Apple removed the floppy drive from the iMac, but the removal of Ethernet on the Air, again, was just to get a thin design. If you honestly believe that Ethernet is dying... The bottom line, it's not. Wireless is getting better and faster all the time, but it's still not as accessible and as fast as Ethernet is. It will be a long time before wired connections go away.

 

[Quillz]

I don't think it is that simple and because unpopular is not the right word to use. A lot of people here are assuming ignorance of that particular port, not a dislike for it.

But you see, it is that simple. Among the mass market of consumers, few care about FireWire nor even know what it is. As Jobs pointed out, most new cameras and camcorders all support USB2. FireWire was also removed from the iPod line a few years back. Apple is out to get as much money as possible from its consumers. Why waste even a few dollars on building in a FireWire port that few consumers will use? It's all about money at the end of the day, and it made the most economical sense to ditch FireWire.

 

[kolax]

But you see, it is that simple. Among the mass market of consumers, few care about FireWire nor even know what it is. As Jobs pointed out, most new cameras and camcorders all support USB2. FireWire was also removed from the iPod line a few years back. Apple is out to get as much money as possible from its consumers. Why waste even a few dollars on building in a FireWire port that few consumers will use? It's all about money at the end of the day, and it made the most economical sense to ditch FireWire.

The MacBook has the performance a pro needs. And it is more compact.

Doesn't matter if a few people will use it, it is there. It is a feature. At some point down the line, it will probaby get used. Whether it be Target Disk Mode or a friend connecting their FireWire camcorder.

Apple removed FireWire for one reason only - to boost the sales of the way overpriced Pro that consumers like me don't really need. All I need is FireWire 400.

 

[diamond.g]

The precedent argument made sense back in 1998 when Apple removed the floppy drive from the iMac, but the removal of Ethernet on the Air, again, was just to get a thin design. If you honestly believe that Ethernet is dying... The bottom line, it's not. Wireless is getting better and faster all the time, but it's still not as accessible and as fast as Ethernet is. It will be a long time before wired connections go away.

Who said it had to go away. Apple is pretty predictable on this thinness kick so eventually the Ethernet is gonna get in the way. An included USB adaptor seems like a fair trade off. Can you explain why it wouldn't be?

 

[chrisPA]

But you see, it is that simple. Among the mass market of consumers, few care about FireWire nor even know what it is.

So that must mean you believe that iMovie is, and has always been nothing more than a marketing scheme? Because until very recently DV was the only way to get video into iMovie (other than really bad still camera "video").

Guess all those commercials about people creating home movies was just a ploy to get people to buy computers they'd never really use anyway....

 

[Eric S.]

USB 3.0 is being finalized and USB 3.0 devices will appear next year.

But the point he's making (I think) is that it might turn out that the two USB ports on the MacBook are 3.0 ready. If 3.0 is backwards compatible with 2.0, then perhaps this is possible, but I doubt it.

USB 3.0 will be backward-compatible (although I believe that new cables will be required), in that 2.0 devices will work when connected to a 3.0 port. But the ports on the host system will be different. It would require new hardware and lots of new software, the 3.0 spec is not fully complete yet, and there won't be USB 3.0 devices on the market until next year. In short, there's no possibility that Apple would put USB 3.0 on these Macbooks.

The fact is, Apple killed off FireWire because it was unpopular among consumers. Simple as that.

No, not as simple as that. Apple didn't kill off FireWire; it's still on the Macbook Pro. Apple is just forcing more people to the more expensive models if they want that feature.

 

[Snide]

I would trade Ethernet for Firewire in a heartbeat

In my personal case, I would much rather have a FW800 port than an Ethernet port if I had to make the choice.

I have never once used the Ethernet port on my 22 month old MacBook; I use Firewire several times a week.

 

[editguy]

But you see, it is that simple. Among the mass market of consumers, few care about FireWire nor even know what it is. As Jobs pointed out, most new cameras and camcorders all support USB2. FireWire was also removed from the iPod line a few years back. Apple is out to get as much money as possible from its consumers. Why waste even a few dollars on building in a FireWire port that few consumers will use? It's all about money at the end of the day, and it made the most economical sense to ditch FireWire.

Well if you are right (and I don't agree that you are), the next update of the iMac will eliminate firewire for the same money savings. The reason I don't agree is that if they were removing port that a lot of consumers don't use, they would have also removed the Ethernet port. I have teachers ask me all the time why there's a "phone jack" on their laptop. But if they remove the firewire from the iMac, I will definitely recommend that the high schools in the district that I teach in not purchase anymore Macs for our editing labs. We can get PC's customized to the specs that we want. It's bad enough that they removed FW from the only affordable Mac notebook for my students to buy.

If this goes the way it looks like it could, Apple is about to lose a 24 year customer.

 

[Quillz]

The MacBook has the performance a pro needs. And it is more compact.

Doesn't matter if a few people will use it, it is there. It is a feature. At some point down the line, it will probaby get used. Whether it be Target Disk Mode or a friend connecting their FireWire camcorder.

Apple removed FireWire for one reason only - to boost the sales of the way overpriced Pro that consumers like me don't really need. All I need is FireWire 400.

And again, you've proved my point. As I stated, Apple is out to get as much money as possible from its consumers. Because most will never need nor care about FireWire, the few who will will be forced into spending at $400 more on a MacBook Pro.

This is why I'm always amazed at how many people seemingly defend Apple to the death, when they are just as evil and money-hungry as every other corporation out there.

 

[Quillz]

Well if you are right (and I don't agree that you are), the next update of the iMac will eliminate firewire for the same money savings. The reason I don't agree is that if they were removing port that a lot of consumers don't use, they would have also removed the Ethernet port. I have teachers ask me all the time why there's a "phone jack" on their laptop. But if they remove the firewire from the iMac, I will definitely recommend that the high schools in the district that I teach in not purchase anymore Macs for our editing labs. We can get PC's customized to the specs that we want. It's bad enough that they removed FW from the only affordable Mac notebook for my students to buy.

If this goes the way it looks like it could, Apple is about to lose a 24 year customer.

I do think the next iMac revision will remove the FireWire port and replace it with Mini DisplayPort.

But you have to think like a corporation. They may be losing one 24-year customer but have the potential of gaining thousands more. Which trade-off do you think they'd rather have?

 

[cube]

who will will be forced into spending at $400 more on a MacBook Pro.

$700

 

[jpine]

I simply do not buy into SJ's assertion that many camcorders have gone USB for a few years now. It just is not so. Deliberate or not, video seems to be taking a back seat in Apple's priorities. Does anyone besides me find it strange that DVDSP has not been updated for some time, the new iMovie is a poor shadow of its former self, the new iMovie does not support iDVD but does support cheesy YouTube, and now MILLIONS of people with "Firewire only" camcorders are excluded from an entry level laptop and quite possibly the forthcoming iMac. This is not to mention that the Mac Mini may not be long for this world. Or is it just me?

 

[Quillz]

$700

$700 from $1,299 model, $400 from $1,499 model. Some may want the high-end MacBook but will spend another $400 to get a FireWire port.

 

[BenRoethig]

The MacBook has the performance a pro needs. And it is more compact.

Doesn't matter if a few people will use it, it is there. It is a feature. At some point down the line, it will probaby get used. Whether it be Target Disk Mode or a friend connecting their FireWire camcorder.

Apple removed FireWire for one reason only - to boost the sales of the way overpriced Pro that consumers like me don't really need. All I need is FireWire 400.

That and thinness has replaced functionality and innovation as Apple's driving force.

I do think the next iMac revision will remove the FireWire port and replace it with Mini DisplayPort.

But you have to think like a corporation. They may be losing one 24-year customer but have the potential of gaining thousands more. Which trade-off do you think they'd rather have?

I'd rather have a 24-year customer who always buy your stuff than those fad consumers who will leave Apple and move on to the next thing. Apple is starting to mess with the thing that has kept them in business all these years.

 

[editguy]

I do think the next iMac revision will remove the FireWire port and replace it with Mini DisplayPort.

But you have to think like a corporation. They may be losing one 24-year customer but have the potential of gaining thousands more. Which trade-off do you think they'd rather have?

If they lose hundreds of high schools that won't buy (or lease) 30 shiny new iMacs because they don't have firewire ports, but the school has dozens of functional firewire cameras. that's a very arrogant and ignorant business decision. And how does eliminating the firewire port gain them even one customer? I've never heard anyone say, "Oh, I was going to buy that computer but it has a firewire port so I don't want it".

 

[danny_w]

If they lose hundreds of high schools that won't buy (or lease) 30 shiny new iMacs because they don't have firewire ports, but the school has dozens of functional firewire cameras. that's a very arrogant and ignorant business decision. And how does eliminating the firewire port gain them even one customer? I've never heard anyone say, "Oh, I was going to buy that computer but it has a firewire port so I don't want it".

Bravo! I was about to post the same thing and you beat me to it.

 

[Gasu E.]

The $999 mac is yesterday's technology. .

It works great, it's cost effective, and it's going to be supported for a long, long time.

It wasn't long ago that I was getting beat up by about 10,000 of you guys because I invested about $3,000 in a G5-based Power Mac, and was expressing unhappiness on hearing my box might not be fully supported with 10.6. You all said: "get over it!"

I WISH I had the CPU from the crappy lil white Macbook in my $3,000, 3 year-old professional workstation.

The White Book is a nice, nice powerful little system that apparently (per several posts) is handy as a low end FCE and Logic Express engine.

I don't understand this "it's yesterday's technology" business. It is cheap and it is good. If you want a middle system between the White Book and the MBP, I would understand that if there were a cogent argument; but the phrase "yesterday's technology" seems to me just substituting knee-jerk labeling for logical and reasoned thought. I'm criticizing the action here, not the person.

 

[chrisPA]

I don't understand this "it's yesterday's technology" business. It is cheap and it is good. If you want a middle system between the White Book and the MBP, I would understand that if there were a cogent argument; but the phrase "yesterday's technology" seems to me just substituting knee-jerk labeling for logical and reasoned thought. I'm criticizing the action here, not the person.

Beyond the fact that the white MB is already the "old" model with "old" features (admittedly not that big a deal!), most of us probably suspect its not long for this world either...

So sure, get 'em while you can, but if I'm looking at continuing buying into my home or business infrastructure for the next few years, do I really want to buy the last of the line? As CPUs and graphic chips, etc improve, the expectation has to be that all those improvements will be unavailable to you if you need FW. I recently bought Aperture for my MacBook, and the decision was between it and Adobe Lightbook. I opted for Aperture even though it locked me to Apple. If I was making that decision today, I think I would go the other way...

Sooner or later (probably sooner), many people are going to have to either move from Apple or move significantly up in price, so why not make the decision now if the writing is on the wall?

 

[corinhorn]

If they lose hundreds of high schools that won't buy (or lease) 30 shiny new iMacs because they don't have firewire ports, but the school has dozens of functional firewire cameras. that's a very arrogant and ignorant business decision. And how does eliminating the firewire port gain them even one customer? I've never heard anyone say, "Oh, I was going to buy that computer but it has a firewire port so I don't want it".

I agree.

What is it with these arguments that suggest that Windows switchers wet themselves because they see a strange and confusing port? I don't get it. With that logic, Windows switchers would also go into shock when they see the new mini DisplayPort.

 

[Eric S.]

It wasn't long ago that I was getting beat up by about 10,000 of you guys because I invested about $3,000 in a G5-based Power Mac, and was expressing unhappiness on hearing my box might not be fully supported with 10.6. You all said: "get over it!"

I feel for you. I wonder how many people upset over losing FireWire in the new Macbook were among the "get over it and move on" crowd a few months back, before Apple axed a technology important to them.

I don't understand this "it's yesterday's technology" business. It is cheap and it is good. If you want a middle system between the White Book and the MBP, I would understand that if there were a cogent argument; but the phrase "yesterday's technology" seems to me just substituting knee-jerk labeling for logical and reasoned thought. I'm criticizing the action here, not the person.

I disagree with you here. The white Macbook is yesterday's technology. The new aluminum MB has waay better graphics performance, a faster front side bus and faster memory. And design-wise the white MB is well-known for problems with cracked cases, where the new one has a beautiful sturdy package. Paying $1000 for the old MB at this point IMO is just helping Apple and Intel clear out inventory at a pretty good return for them.

 

[Gasu E.]

If they lose hundreds of high schools that won't buy (or lease) 30 shiny new iMacs because they don't have firewire ports, but the school has dozens of functional firewire cameras. that's a very arrogant and ignorant business decision. And how does eliminating the firewire port gain them even one customer? I've never heard anyone say, "Oh, I was going to buy that computer but it has a firewire port so I don't want it".

It's only in the neurotic world of the Mac-obsessed that anyone would imagine that Apple is killing off FW.

Apple has merely done their homework and realized that only a minority of customers are using it, therefore they should not force a feature that most people find useless down EVERYONE's throats. It costs money to add these things! Money that could be invested in R&D, spent on other features, or returned to the stockholders.

As far as Apple is concerned, they have enough FW-based products covering enough form factors and price points that everyone should be able to find a suitable product.

It is only in this strange little universe of Macheads that some kind of contrived "theory of technology aging" would be invented to dismiss the White Macbook as "yesterday's technology" and therefore invalidate it as a choice. This particular product has been, and still is, a powerful little product that punches above its price class.

A wise consumer should be making a logical decision based on price, features, performance, and useful life. The White MacBook continues to be a winner in all these areas.