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Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

Eric S. said:
I disagree with you here. The white Macbook is yesterday's technology. The new aluminum MB has waay better graphics performance, a faster front side bus and faster memory. And design-wise the white MB is well-known for problems with cracked cases, where the new one has a beautiful sturdy package. Paying $1000 for the old MB at this point IMO is just helping Apple and Intel clear out inventory at a pretty good return for them.
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Well, I certainly can't argue that the new MB's don't have advantages-- better graphics for sure. If you want to play a certain class of games, this may be compelling. But not everyone does. I've been making tough choices about Macs for years-- Apple is notorious for bundling features, and I always end up spending more than I would have liked to get the features I need (plus a few that I don't need). That's life when you go with a niche product.

I mentioned my son (who is going to Berklee next year) a few hundred messages back. He's a creative kid. He has a White Book. He runs FCE for his videos, Logic Express for his music (sometimes he uses my PowerMac for FCE, trading off the Intel processor for the 24" screen). He's on the Internet a lot-- IMing, Skype-ing to his sister (who is abroad), dragging the MacBook into the kitchen to cook off an Internet recipe. Sometimes he'll take take the Macbook out to record at a gig, or to hook up to the MOTU and other equipment he keeps in the basement recording studio he shares with a friend.
The MacBook is just great-- he loves it. We've had no problems with case cracking or anything, and it can handle all these applications and a lot more just fine. But yes, he does not play computer games, so maybe the graphics are not important.

BTW, I'm not completely unsympathetic to the FW issue. I do think there is a need for a small form-factor professional notebook computer. I just don't think the White Book has suddenly run out of steam there. It was just fine two weeks ago; it hasn't changed. I'm hoping that Apple will eventually introduce a small book that pro's can use. I just don't think it has to be in this iteration. And I actually think the "glossy-book" haters have a more pertinent gripe (not that it affects me, but I find their argument logical and compelling).
 
Gasu E. said:
It's only in the neurotic world of the Mac-obsessed that anyone would imagine that Apple is killing off FW.

Apple has merely done their homework and realized that only a minority of customers are using it, therefore they should not force a feature that most people find useless down EVERYONE's throats. It costs money to add these things! Money that could be invested in R&D, spent on other features, or returned to the stockholders.
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Then why are they forcing Ethernet down the throats of people who will never use it? Or a display port for people who will never connect it to en external monitor? Or a mic input for people who will never use it? There's no logic to your argument. There are always features on computers that not everyone will use. And, if you don't want to use it, you're free to ignore it. More features are always a good thing.

As far as Apple is concerned, they have enough FW-based products covering enough form factors and price points that everyone should be able to find a suitable product.
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But that's no longer true, because they don't offer firewire in an updated "entry" level MB or the 13" form factor.

It is only in this strange little universe of Macheads that some kind of contrived "theory of technology aging" would be invented to dismiss the White Macbook as "yesterday's technology" and therefore invalidate it as a choice. This particular product has been, and still is, a powerful little product that punches above its price class.

A wise consumer should be making a logical decision based on price, features, performance, and useful life. The White MacBook continues to be a winner in all these areas.
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It IS yesterday's technology. The new MB has much improved graphics and faster bus speed, and a case that should be durable for the rough conditions of location work. There's a reason why I hadn't already purchased the previous MB generation. It's because it didn't meet my needs. I am making a logical decision based on all the criteria that you laid out, but for MY needs, not YOURS. If it meets your needs, that's great for you. I want a MB that meets my needs, and it's not the white book.

Edit; And one last thing: I don't believe the white MB will be around for long.
And, if it's not, they leave me with nothing that I can recommend to my students ina an Apple portable that's "affordable" (and I use that term loosely)
 
People have mentioned replacing the ethernet port with a FireWire port. However, instead of a USB adapter, why not have a FireWire adapter, given FW's support for TCP/IP? That way you could utilize daisy chains and still have 2 USB ports open. I would have to guess that notebooks utilize ethernet far less than desktops.

On the flipside, is there any more information as to whether ethernet can support native FireWire, as has been mentioned previously? Either method, so long as we get all the speed and attributes of FireWire, would work.
 
Gasu E. said:
And I actually think the "glossy-book" haters have a more pertinent gripe (not that it affects me, but I find their argument logical and compelling).
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In what way? I don't like the glossy screen and wish there was a matte option, but I can work around that. There's no way for me to work around the lack of firewire.
 
Eric S. said:
But there isn't USB 3.0, so you have no argument. You are just wasting everyone's time.
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And its not a bigger waste of time than this whole thread? you really think that steve is going to say, "oh bugger, I better change my mind, because twinkle toes Eric is having an emotional break down!
 
kaiwai said:
And its not a bigger waste of time than this whole thread? you really think that steve is going to say, "oh bugger, I better change my mind, because twinkle toes Eric is having an emotional break down!
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Seriously? You're worried about this being a waste of time? At least most of the people here are discussing the topic because it affects their hobbies or livelihoods.

You're here on this "waste of time" thread with no reason other than to try to stir things up. That's pretty sad...
 
Wirelessly posted (holmes/3.10.1 (OnetSzukaj/5.0; +http://szukaj.onet.pl) QTEK S100)

editguy said:
In what way? I don't like the glossy screen and wish there was a matte option, but I can work around that. There's no way for me to work around the lack of firewire.
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I'm puzzled. To use Firewire, why can't you use the inexpensive workarounds that people have been describing in this thread? And how to do work around the problems of a glossy screen in a way that's not costly or inconvenient?
 
What? Aren't you sposed to be a god? :p

There is no workaround. You are referring to that crappy windows only USB-FW400 adaptor for DV cameras.
 
Doctor Q said:
Wirelessly posted (holmes/3.10.1 (OnetSzukaj/5.0; +http://szukaj.onet.pl) QTEK S100)


I'm puzzled. To use Firewire, why can't you use the inexpensive workarounds that people have been describing in this thread? And how to do work around the problems of a glossy screen in a way that's not costly or inconvenient?
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Have you read any of this thread? There is no work around? Absolutely nothing. There are steps you can take to minimize the glare on glossy screens. Before LCD's, every screen I used was a glossy so it's not something I even have to do anything about. There's nothing you can do about a missing firewire port.
 
iEdd said:
What? Aren't you sposed to be a god? :p

There is no workaround. You are referring to that crappy windows only USB-FW400 adaptor for DV cameras.
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And if it was a driver for OSX it won't be useful. The reason for people needs firewire is that is faster and use less cpu than USB. If you try to emulate the transfer you will use a lot of CPU, there for the realtime features of firewire wont be there.
And sound and video users need that realtime!
 
On the Q4 conference call, Steve Jobs just said he would not trade any of his customers for any other company's customer. What a joke. He wants to snatch as many Windows users as he can and doesn't care how many loyal Apple customers he loses.
 
Gasu E. said:
It's only in the neurotic world of the Mac-obsessed that anyone would imagine that Apple is killing off FW.

Apple has merely done their homework and realized that only a minority of customers are using it, therefore they should not force a feature that most people find useless down EVERYONE's throats. It costs money to add these things! Money that could be invested in R&D, spent on other features, or returned to the stockholders.
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FW is almost 10 years old there is no cost about it. All tool and R&D cost have already been recouped by the manufactures therefor the cost to Apple is substantially low. Think about it. How much do you think you could get a 350MHZ PPC chip nowadays? Cost was not a factor with this.
 
In revolt of the new MacBooks with no Firewire support, I bought my wife the MacBook White instead. And I really had to LOOK for it too. It's almost as if the Apple site was trying to HIDE it!
 
Doctor Q said:
Wirelessly posted (holmes/3.10.1 (OnetSzukaj/5.0; +http://szukaj.onet.pl) QTEK S100)


I'm puzzled. To use Firewire, why can't you use the inexpensive workarounds that people have been describing in this thread? And how to do work around the problems of a glossy screen in a way that's not costly or inconvenient?
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If you are puzzled I'm blown away by your logic. Please tell me how you work around the FW issue? Please tell me how I can connect any audio or video equipment that uses FW to Mac that has no FW?!? There is no work around!
 
ageha said:
You cannot even use both USB2 ports because they are too close together. Actually the MB has only one USB2 input. :D
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Haha, I discovered this today too when I went down to the Apple Store to behold these new machines. No memory stick when using a wired mouse :eek:

Those YouTube videos giving the Air a stick for adapters and hubs you need to bring, really are true, even for the MacBooks!

These products are nice, but they have little and big flaws all over. So needless to say: no purchase today.
 
kaiwai said:
And its not a bigger waste of time than this whole thread?
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Yes, suggesting that USB 3.0 plays any role in this discussion is a bigger waste of time than the rest of the thread.

you really think that steve is going to say, "oh bugger, I better change my mind, because twinkle toes Eric is having an emotional break down!
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It appeared that you were the one having the emotional breakdown. Personally I can take or leave FireWire; I will regret losing target disk mode but I don't use it except for that, and its absence won't stop me from buying a new Macbook. And I never said I expected Steve to change his mind.
 
Gasu E. said:
…therefore they should not force a feature that most people find useless down EVERYONE's throats. It costs money to add these things! Money that could be invested in R&D, spent on other features, or returned to the stockholders…
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I think you are wrong. FireWire is, besides the size, screen and graphics card, the differentiator between the Book and the Pro, not something they cut to spare stupid (Mac!) users the confusion of an extra port. Heck, why not just make everything wireless?

Just wanted to highlight this cost bit: Apple plan on selling millions of these babies. Let´s be optimistic and say 10M in a year. Also, let´s say the inclusion of FireWire costs $2 per computer. That´s $20M in costs, per year.

Now, look at people not buying due to the lack of this port. To keep numbers round an even, it only takes the sale of a mere 2000 MacBooks (at $1k) to make up for the cost. So if more than 2000 people refuse to buy, or stay with a Windows computer because of this, it has been a bad business decision.

At least, I don´t think the same number of people will buy just because it doesn´t offer them a port they may never use.
 
Belly-laughs said:
At least, I don´t think the same number of people will buy just because it doesn´t offer them a port they may never use.
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Wrong! I think most loyal Apple customers in this board think exactly that way. At least you get the feeling when you read the posts.
 
ageha said:
Wrong! I think most loyal Apple customers in this board think exactly that way. At least you get the feeling when you read the posts.
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They will buy because it doesn´t offer FireWire? I´m on my 13th year of "loyalty" and don´t think that way – just yet.
 
corinhorn said:
On the Q4 conference call, Steve Jobs just said he would not trade any of his customers for any other company's customer. What a joke. He wants to snatch as many Windows users as he can and doesn't care how many loyal Apple customers he loses.
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Or assumes a) are loyal enough to buy whatever scraps Apple sends us and/or b) all we're looking for is design.
 
... cant believe people are still moaning about the lack of firewire...

All i can say is "HAHAHAHAHAHA! Unlucky!" - I don't care about firewire, I dont care if you need it... oh, and it seems Apple doesn't care about the minority who uses firewire also... its like what Apple mentioned, Macbook is the company's best selling laptop, most average users couldn't care about the FW port.

Go buy a MacbookPro if you really want one with FW... if you complain about price then just buy the older generationMB/MBP...

Oh, I dont care if I get flamed, Im getting my MB tomorror, the lack of FW will make it just that tad lighter ;)

night night hahaha

editguy said:
Then why are they forcing Ethernet down the throats of people who will never use it? Or a display port for people who will never connect it to en external monitor? Or a mic input for people who will never use it? There's no logic to your argument. There are always features on computers that not everyone will use. And, if you don't want to use it, you're free to ignore it. More features are always a good thing.
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that is the most jibberish I have ever heard! Most of the people who buy Macbooks are students, student residence uses ethernet for safety/secruity reasons..., also its harder to hack into someone who uses ethernet for internet rather than wireless internet...
 
peepboon said:
... cant believe people are still moaning about the lack of firewire...

All i can say is "HAHAHAHAHAHA! Unlucky!" - I don't care about firewire, I dont care if you need it... oh, and it seems Apple doesn't care about the minority who uses firewire also...
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Yeah but that's because you clearly know nothing about computers, and hence don't use firewire. :rolleyes:
 
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