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Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

Apple has always been a budding Microsoft, only with more talent.

Apple for YEARS pushed FW400 on us, not including USB2 on any of it's computers for the longest time after it was standard on PC's. Then they eliminate FW from their iPod and make all new iPod owners suffer USB1 transfer on what was then all 1.5 y old Macs or more. I remember connecting in my FW400 Apple iPod connector in my new iPod and getting a message that I needed to connect a USB2 cable instead. Apple didn't just stop giving a FW cable for free: THEY WENT TO THE TROUBLE OF SOFTWARE BLOCKING PEOPLE FROM USING THE VERY FW CONNECTORS THEY THEMSELVES HAD BEEN SELLING EVEN A COUPLE OF MONTHS PRIOR TO THAT!!

It's not Apple we love (in fact I've started hating them a while back) it's their products. I mean, iPod or Zune? iPhone or BlackBerry? Final Cut Pro or Premiere/Avid? OS X or Windows? They got us by the freakin' throat because no one else makes better stuff for the most of us.
 
Tensakun said:
This may be a crazy-A$$ idea, and if so, don't hesitate to shoot it down:eek:, but...

Would it be possible to import video this way:
1) Connect your MB via USB to a hard drive that has both a USB and a FW port.
2) Connect your video camera to the HD via FW.
3) Mount everything.
4) Suck in the video over this ragtag net using iMovie.

Not elegant, but possible?:confused:
Click to expand...

Won't work. You can't "tunnel" firewire over USB. The firewire port(s) on the hard drive enclosure are only for connecting the hard drive, and the second port is for daisy chaining a second firewire device.

So Apple's logic is "Firewire is a pro feature". Can I have a small Macbook Pro then? Everybody loved the 12" Powerbook because it was super small and had pro features nonetheless. Now the smallest laptop I can get with Firewire is 15"... what about the pros who need a really portable computer?

I'd love to have a 12" Macbook Pro, basically the current Macbook with a little better display, maybe less space on the left and right of the keyboard and firewire. But that won't happen because it will confuse people becuase the consumer and pro line look exactly the same now design-wise.

:-(

Please, Apple, put firewire back on the 13" laptops. Pro users want small laptops too, you know?
 
It's not just stupid that the MacBook no longer has FireWire, it's doubly stupid that the MacBook Pro and the MacBook were not both upgraded to FireWire 3200.
FW3200 is here now and it is superior to all other high speed interfaces. If Apple will get behind it and push hard before USB 3.0 and eSATA take root, it will be a great benefit and simplification for all consumers.
 
Tummy said:
Digital HD 1080p camcorders that record to memory are as little as $150 now. Check out Aiptek for example. They're kinda crappy now, but are catching up. In good light, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference between it and HD camcorders costing 5x the price.

Search for examples on http://www.vimeo.com
Click to expand...

so you're suggesting someone goes out and purposely buys a crappy camcorder right now, as you stated.

i'm sorry, but that's not cool. the dv camcorder i have is in great shape. there's no reason i should have to buy a new one. i was seriously in the market for a new macbook. but now i'll have to spend $500 more just to make my dv camcorder work. or i'll have to shell out $500-1000 for a HD camcorder. either way i get it up the arse.

i know i'm not the only one.

plus, people's exisiting external drives. this is just a big ol middle finger to the average consumer to which apple markets the macbook.
 
enadsleinad said:
I can't believe you guys want to edit video on a 13 inch screen! What a nightmare. I totally agree with Unity's post. It not like some one was making you buy the consuer level macbook. And most of you probably don't even own it yet. SO DON'T BUY IT! Jobs is not making your equipment obselete. Only you are if you choose to buy a computer that doesn't match the rest of you setup.
Click to expand...
You would think some people would actually use common sense. :rolleyes:
 
how to get data from old powerbook over to macbook without firewire?!?

how to get data from old powerbook over to macbook without firewire?!?
thats the big question. if you have no timemachine backups. can you use network?
it was so easy for me to upgrade from ibook to imac and then to mac pro using firewire. but what can we do now?
 
blindzero said:
While I understand the need to distinguish prosumer from consumer models (Cameras have been doing it for years, crippling their consumer models just to force people to upgrade)...the lack of a firewire port isn't exactly a fair crippling as firewire has been available for so long on consumer levels.

We're not talking about getting rid of serial port here which just caused major compatibility issues. Firewire is still used by a huge portion of Mac's base. The same base that built Mac into what it is today (Video/Graphics people). When people think of PC they think games, for Mac they think Video/Graphics Software. Now they just got rid of the video part. And with just glossy screens they are getting rid of the graphics part.

Apple needs to be careful in the months ahead.
Click to expand...
Dude Apple realizes firewire is dying, they still offer it, just not on all models, it's on the Mac Pro, iMac, Mini, macbook white, and Macbook Pro, if you need it that badly get one of those.
 
Lack of firewire in MBs is a valid differentiator between them and the MBPs (along with screen size, etc.). If you want firewall in a new machine, you have to get a MBP. The same as if you want a bigger screen.
 
gabefung said:
As as i know, most new consumer oriented high definition camera either is disc based, or use USB 2 for transfer.

I used to support Firewire device. But with increasing cpu power (relatively less cpu demand by usb 2 devices) and much higher demand for transfer speed in high definition resolution production, for me as a consumer at home, USB 2 is fast and cheap enough; As a animator/video editor at office, firewire 400 is simply too slow.

But even if Steve is true, it is always a good thing to have more accessibility in a computer.
Click to expand...

What you said does not make any sense. Try transferring a large file from an external HD using firewire. Calculate throughput. Do the same file using the same HD using USB. Calculate throughput. You will see that firewire is about twice as fast in sustained throughput.

Also, firewire has built-in isochronous capability as well as peer to peer communication using any network topology. USB cannot do any of this.

Clearly, USB is no match for Firewire unfortunately Apple has given up. So sad.

Most DV and HDV camcorders can only transfer video through firewire and not USB. DV is much easier to edit compared to highly compressed formats like MPEG2 and MPEG4 (including AVCHD). With HDV you can archive back your edited HD video back into the MiniDV tape (bluray disks are still very expensive). This also requires firewire. However, with USB you cannot archive movie back to the tape.
 
enadsleinad said:
I can't believe you guys want to edit video on a 13 inch screen! What a nightmare. I totally agree with Unity's post. It not like some one was making you buy the consuer level macbook. And most of you probably don't even own it yet. SO DON'T BUY IT! Jobs is not making your equipment obselete. Only you are if you choose to buy a computer that doesn't match the rest of you setup.
Click to expand...
We do quick rough cuts in the field and then bring them back and connect them to external monitors. And, yes, he's making my Mac equipment obsolete. But, thankfully there are viable alternatives if Apple no longer respects the professional community nor wants our business. And this is a big mistake for the educational market. I will be replacing computers in my editing lab soon and now I will be looking at PC's instead of Macs since they seem to think that firewire is irrelevant.
 
The Man said:
The problem here is not Apple removing FireWire from the MacBook, it's that Apple doesn't give us a timetable when FireWire will be gone from all Apple consumer offerings. My iBook is getting old, but I can't just upgrade yet. Money is tight. I have to wait. I do have 1 HDV camera on which I do DV edits, with the thought of doing HDV in the future. I have already a nice collection of tapes. I can't afford a new camera. I'm using Final Cut Express. Who's to say the white MacBook still exists in 6 months? Or even the Mac mini with FireWire? Or an iMac with FireWire. It's the timetable, people. That's what the people who say that Apple still gives us choice, and no new cameras use FireWire don't seem to grasp.
Click to expand...
When has Apple ever given timetables of anything, they are a secretive company, you should know that already before investing in their equipment.
 
People keep bringing up the argument that you shouldn't be editing video on a consumer product, but that's not all that Firewire is used for. I like the ability to connect two macs together and run disk repair, or use one as an external HD. Migration assistant can be performed via USB, but is sure to be dog slow. Not to mention Firewire external hard drives are certainly superior compared to USB drives.

I think what is rubbing everyone the wrong way, is that it was not necessary for Apple to remove the Firewire port. They have plenty of space on the bezel. They just did it to further differentiate between the consumer and pro lines.

If only there were a comparable alternative to the Mac OS, I would dump Apple in a heartbeat.
 
editguy said:
That's ludicrous. Firewire is not dying it is the defacto standard of the video world.
Click to expand...
You're burying your head in the sand, it's dying, why do you think most computers, camera, camcorders coming out don't include firewire, USB is the future, get over it.
 
Maury said:
You're complaining that you can't throw away your perfectly fine laptop because that means you'd have to throw away your perfectly fine camcorder?

And somehow this means Apple is mean and out of touch?
duh.
Click to expand...

What? So you think all Apple buyers are second time MacBook buyers? Apple says 50% of the buyers are first time ones. Or you somehow thought that the problem was personal to me and somehow you knew that I already own a Mac laptop? Not brilliant.

But what was your point again? May be I misunderstand?
 
editguy said:
You don't have a clue. PC's offer more and more laptops all the time with firewire. Plus, even entry level PC laptops have PCMCIA or express card slots so you can add more ports.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
That's a lie and you know, more and more PC companies are dropping firewire because they know most people don't give a damn about it and in this world the majority wins.
 
Not realistic

HD Cameras use USB 2.0? Ok....

Well, My iPod uses one of the 2 ports for USB, my printer uses the other. Where does the camcorder go now? My external I now have to downgrade connection speed from Firewire 400 to USB 2.0 and just keep unplugging one thing for another? Unless of course I invest in an ugly hub for my notebook..

Sorry, I love this company, but I still give a thumbs down for it's decision.
 
serpico said:
I don't think every consumer is uploading and editing video. That is the primary use of firewire really, maybe for external storage. But many consumers don't do backups anyway. USB2 items are easy to find too. Guess Apple is making it easier for these consumers. I still think it should have been left there. I think Apple will just leave it on the pro books now and desktops.
Click to expand...

How does it make it easier for the consumer to eliminate ports? Don't need them, then don't use them.:rolleyes:
 
Adjei said:
Piss poor upgrade, please, maybe to you, but you're irrelevant, I guess all the millions of people buying the 3g iphone didn't seem to mind and the millions who will buy these laptops won't either.
Click to expand...

See that's the rough reality of Apple. Through the years we've somehow grown to think that "Apple cares about everyone", when in fact Apple is just a company like others, except that they put more of their profits into product design. Apple could probably care less about a forum like this, because we are a minority constituting a few hundred comments.

Even if Stevie J was reading this post he'd probably be sitting at his unibody aluminum desk in his glossy glass office, bitching on his 3G.2 iPhone about all of our bitching.
 
Most of the new camcorders record directly to SD… SD is also pretty cheap these days - $16 for 8gb and $30 for 16gb. 60 min on miniDV is about 13gb and then you still have to spend another 60 min of your time “capturing” it. If you have a lot of money invested in slightly older firewire technology, just avoid the new 13” Macbook and invest in a slightly older or slightly more expensive model. Personally, not having to capture footage would make me upgrade my $2,000 equipment and unload it on ebay/craigs list in a heartbeat.
 
serpico said:
I don't think every consumer is uploading and editing video. That is the primary use of firewire really, maybe for external storage. But many consumers don't do backups anyway. USB2 items are easy to find too. Guess Apple is making it easier for these consumers. I still think it should have been left there. I think Apple will just leave it on the pro books now and desktops.
Click to expand...

That's what bothers me. It seems to be a huge step backwards in Apple's way of thinking. Is Apple designing consumer laptops to only cater to the lowest common denominator now?? "Consumers don't really edit video, so let's go ahead and take away that feature"? "Only pros want to edit video, and they'll all buy pro equipment"? That's divisive, oversimplified, and what it comes down to is downright insulting.

What I loved about the Mac was how easy it was for the "common man" to do all this stuff that was once only the domain of professionals. Desktop publishing for everyone in an age where you otherwise had to go to a print shop. Graphic design for everyone in an age where you needed lots of high-end PC or Unix equipment. Video editing for everyone in an age when, on a PC, you needed to buy video capture cards and expensive editing software. DVD burning for everyone in an age where, on a PC, you had to buy expensive authoring software. All of that came built-in on a Mac, it was a huge selling point.

Quick example: a number of years ago I helped a local youth group enter a video-making contest. Today, everyone and his mother knows how to use iMovie or Windows Movie Maker but back then, iMovie was still ahead of the curve. Our video was done in iMovie and had effects and everything. Most of our competition used VCR-to-VCR dubbing to cut together their videos. We won by a landslide. It was this sort of thing that Macs were so good at. You'd produce a video, a slide show, a newsletter, a website, a DVD, whatever, and people would say "Whoa, YOU did that? I thought you had to be a pro to be able to do that!" and you could proudly say "Nope, it's all included when you buy a Mac!"

Now, the PC world has caught up, they can do all that stuff just as good as a Mac can, and now Apple thinks it's time to pull the plug?
 
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