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THIS is Thinking Different. Keeping firewire is Thinking Same.

Oh yeah?
so why didn't they "think diferent" on the macbook pro?

Firewire is dying, USB is the future, Apple has seen that, some people will feel bitter that they dropped but that's life.

Oh yeah?
so why is the new FW format behing developed?

also, USB 2 is damn slow in the macs (all the macs I've tried and all USB 2 HD, cameras, cards, it's slow slow slow!, if you compare it to even FW 400 is almost a third slower in real life!)
 
No more Firewire? Are you Kidding me?

I am not in favor of this decision at all. I have a Macbook and I use my firewire port everyday to connect my external LaCie hard drive. Firewire is faster than USB

I agree with Jake. Firewire is far superior to USB when connecting my External to my MacBook Pro. It is a lot faster and more secure than USB, too. Apple makes NO SENSE removing the Firewire from their MacBooks - stupid move, Steve! (I'm selling my apple stock)
 
People, sometimes you just can't win them all. In life, you'll have that.

Just shell out the extra $$$ for a MacBook Pro. Apple wouldn't have eliminated it on the MacBook if they didn't have a good reason to do so. They obviously have determined that not enough people were using the interface.

You people that are complaining are a minority and the machines will still sell great to their target market.

Seems like common business sense to me.

When I was in the Apple Store yesterday, most of the folks buying the MacBooks were sorority chicks and kids with their Moms forking out the cash for them. The ones getting the MacBook Pros were older guys and more sophisticated folks. Personally, I have a Penryn MBP and an older JVC DV/Firewire cam. As soon as I get free time, I'm ripping all the movies off my tapes, demagnetizing them and them selling the whole bundle w/camcorder on eBay.

I used my Dad's Sony USB HD / hard disk drive cam this summer and it completely convinced me that is the way I need to go for the future. It was far faster to copy the videos and easier for me (a consumer).

If you're a pro, get the "Pro" model and you'll be happy.
 
Or just pick up a $20 screen protector which adds a matte finish.

*smack* :rolleyes:

I hate it when people say stuff like this. It's like taking a video signal from digital to analog and then back to digital. Adding another step only makes it even worse...
 
I have a Sony HD camcorder that I purchased in February. It has Firewire and HDMI, but no USB2. I read the entire manual and the specifications. So, SJ is wrong when he says all HD camcorders in the last couple of years have USB2.

It records onto tape, yes?

The thing is that tape is dying in all but the very high end, where Sony dominate with HDCAM(SR) et. al. I do think that Steve's two year time period is a bit off. Its closer to 12-18 months at best.

The thing with firewire, which was always nice was the higher sustained data rate than USB. This was essential as the transfer from tape was real-time, where the image is re-recorded to the HDD. Now we are seeing a move to file-based acquisition, the sustained speed capability is not necessary to ensure that a high quality copy exists on the computer.

I certainly can see why people are upset - I was in the miniDV/FW400 world for a long time, but file based systems, providing you buy from someone that uses a well understood codec are so much better. Yes, the speed increase you see is always welcome, but it isn't taking that much away. Anyway those who have 18 month old cameras aren't likely to buy their first editing platform now. If they really do need FW, buy the old, white Macbook. It could cope with MiniDV fine last week, and nothing's changed.
 
I have some weird feelings about this issue. USB2 is now a more universal standard, it's 480Mbps, but not as intelligent, and a 'cheaper' alternative to real FireWire 400. Dropping of the FireWire on the MacBook was almost destined to happen but I believe it shows a step more towards a generic offering of connectivity options by nixing the FireWire, which was a nice addition to have on the consumer Apple 'book. This was you could easily connect a DV cam and do professional-grade editing. I believe FW is still better for external hard drives, and on the MacBook Pro you have the expresscard34 as well as FW 800. On the new MacBook, the only option for external drives is using a USB2 port. USB2 is great, but it's not the best. So, I think Apple should have kept FireWire on the MacBook but its understandable that they nixed it. I am glad they kept FireWire 800 on the MacBook Pro. My feeling about the video editing, connectivity-wise is that most all DV cams use FireWire 400/IEEE 1394 /iLink and not USB 2.0. Most 'cheaper' cams' and newer cams on the consumer HD type level have the USB 2.0 option now, which would essentially import your video into iPhoto instead of letting you use something like FinalCutPro. Real DV cams or 3CCD type cams, miniDV and digital beta use FireWire. These cameras are still widely used for production purposes and filming, thus having FireWire is almost still essential on the pro/prosumer level for people that cut and edit film on a DV type basis (DV tape cams).

That's just how I feel. It was forseen that this would happen but it sucks a bit that the FW port is not available on the new MacBook for folks that want to use the horsepower-capable machine for editing, and cannot because they cannot connect their exisiting DV-based equipment for importing raw footage from the cam to a suitable editing application. I haven't seen many cameras pre-2004 or pre-2005 that even offer USB 2.0 as a viable connectivity option for DV import.
 
Sorry, but those of you here who seem to think there are cheap, easy, and good quality options using USB that DON'T mean you have to get rid af all your FW gear, are living in Cloud-Cuckoo-Land.

A simple FW 4pin mini port would have made the new Macbook an absolute Shoe-in.

As it is this has just pissed off a lot of people WHO ARE ALL LONGTIME MAC USERS.

PC switchers may not care, not many PC people i know use FW i admit, but this move has really alienated a lot of people who, presumably like myself, have ageing MBs and who would already have ordered a new Ali machine, but are now faced with the dilemma of either replacing a lot of ancillary gear, or spending a fair bit more to go Pro.

To Jonathan Ives, if you're listening, i think you could have put a little bit more thought into this.
 
True. I bought a $600 HD camcorder on Amazon on sale for $300 and it is USB2.
 
People keep bringing up the argument that you shouldn't be editing video on a consumer product, but that's not all that Firewire is used for.

in addition, why can't i edit video on my macbook. just because i'm not a "pro user" - earning my living from my mac - doesn't mean i don't have an adorable 10 month old daughter that we take video of and i edit on my macbook. i have no intention of replacing our dv camcorder. however, our macbook is showing it's years and we were looking to replace it soon. apple loses a sale. money is tight (this is still george bush's america and we're in a recession) and i'm not going to spend $400 more than we anticipated. i'll be picking up something off craig's list, but am purposely not supporting apple with their decision to stick it to the consumer customer base.
 
Yeah.

I have 3 HD cameras, 2 SD-DV cameras, and 1 DV deck that all require firewire. Total value? About $12,000.

Thanks Steve, I'll get right on replacing all those. :rolleyes:

And to those who say "Well, can't you afford a Macbook Pro?" I ALREADY have a $3,500 Mac Pro and a $2,000 iMac. It would be nice to have a realitively inexpenisve little Macbook that's easy to carry around and can extend my abilities onto the road in a small way. Do I have to buy the freak'n top-of-the-line in EVERY category? I can't invest heavily in a desktop and just have a nice little, lighter, mid-range laptop to carry around?

Gah!

(And please don't point out the $999 Macbook to me. The point is that my only 2 solutions are to buy 'yesterday's technology' or buy the most expensive laptop. Those are both lame solutions.)

I think this just apple being apple and why I've been hesitant about buying apple products. I know apple's work well but they are so locked down and myself being someone who has been messing with computers since I was a kid this lack of control made me not consider apple for anything. But now I'm getting older and lazier and just want stuff to work.

So what's confusing to me is all the apple "fanboys" and supporters are complaining now about apple doing what they ALWAYS do!

This is CLASSIC apple... make something as simple as possible that just works and satisfies the majority of the target population for a product. So yeah, there maybe be 3% of the population that really wants firewire on the new $1299 notebook, but 97% don't. So all these silly online petitions aren't going to do anything.

Yes, I just pulled the 3% out of my a$$, so don't start giving me numbers...I don't care, I know I'm right in general :cool:
 
You're burying your head in the sand, it's dying, why do you think most computers, camera, camcorders coming out don't include firewire, USB is the future, get over it.

Only on cheap consumer camcorders for people who don't edit video anyway. Talk about something you know about, because it's obviously not video, I've been producing video professionally for over twenty years and firewire is not going anyplace. Why do you think there's a new firewire standard coming it it was a dying technology. Plus, firewire is the standard for professional audio. The ignorance of people talking about things they know nothing about is overwhelming. :eek:
 
Yawn. I remember the same moans when Apple left off ADB and SCSI on the iMac. With hindsight was that a bad decision - No. USB, it's the right decision for the future.
 
That's not correct

I'm sorry but all of the HD camcorders from the last 2 years do NOT have USB 2.0 and even if they did the dropout rate during capture would be impossible to work with... I really can't believe that that came from Steve because that was an ignorant answer from someone who doesn't know the video industry.
 
That's what bothers me. It seems to be a huge step backwards in Apple's way of thinking. Is Apple designing consumer laptops to only cater to the lowest common denominator now?? "Consumers don't really edit video, so let's go ahead and take away that feature"? "Only pros want to edit video, and they'll all buy pro equipment"? That's divisive, oversimplified, and what it comes down to is downright insulting.

What I loved about the Mac was how easy it was for the "common man" to do all this stuff that was once only the domain of professionals. Desktop publishing for everyone in an age where you otherwise had to go to a print shop. Graphic design for everyone in an age where you needed lots of high-end PC or Unix equipment. Video editing for everyone in an age when, on a PC, you needed to buy video capture cards and expensive editing software. DVD burning for everyone in an age where, on a PC, you had to buy expensive authoring software. All of that came built-in on a Mac, it was a huge selling point.

Quick example: a number of years ago I helped a local youth group enter a video-making contest. Today, everyone and his mother knows how to use iMovie or Windows Movie Maker but back then, iMovie was still ahead of the curve. Our video was done in iMovie and had effects and everything. Most of our competition used VCR-to-VCR dubbing to cut together their videos. We won by a landslide. It was this sort of thing that Macs were so good at. You'd produce a video, a slide show, a newsletter, a website, a DVD, whatever, and people would say "Whoa, YOU did that? I thought you had to be a pro to be able to do that!" and you could proudly say "Nope, it's all included when you buy a Mac!"

Now, the PC world has caught up, they can do all that stuff just as good as a Mac can, and now Apple thinks it's time to pull the plug?

+100

This is the real heart of the issue. You're the first person to point this out, and now that I've read it, I think it's more important than all the back-and-forth everyone else has been going on about. (Myself included.)
 
See that's the rough reality of Apple. Through the years we've somehow grown to think that "Apple cares about everyone", when in fact Apple is just a company like others, except that they put more of their profits into product design. Apple could probably care less about a forum like this, because we are a minority constituting a few hundred comments.

Even if Stevie J was reading this post he'd probably be sitting at his unibody aluminum desk in his glossy glass office, bitching on his 3G.2 iPhone about all of our bitching.

:D
 
THIS is Thinking Different. Keeping firewire is Thinking Same.

Good Grief! Why not drop Ethernet, too? Or the QWERTY layout, or a Magsafe connector? Ot the 3.5 mm audio connectors?



This is one of the dumbest posts I have seen in a long time:confused:
 
People, sometimes you just can't win them all. In life, you'll have that.

Just shell out the extra $$$ for a MacBook Pro. Apple wouldn't have eliminated it on the MacBook if they didn't have a good reason to do so. They obviously have determined that not enough people were using the interface.

If you're a pro, get the "Pro" model and you'll be happy.

No, I won't be happy! I don't want a notebook that big. It's lousy for location work. The MB is the perfect size.
 
Yawn. I remember the same moans when Apple left off ADB and SCSI on the iMac. With hindsight was that a bad decision - No. USB, it's the right decision for the future.


Not for HD video it isn't. Don't people ever get tired of apologizing for every bonehead move Apple makes ? Is it like a gag reflex that they just can't help themselves ? :rolleyes:
 
Oh yeah?
so why didn't they "think diferent" on the macbook pro?



Oh yeah?
so why is the new FW format behing developed?

also, USB 2 is damn slow in the macs (all the macs I've tried and all USB 2 HD, cameras, cards, it's slow slow slow!, if you compare it to even FW 400 is almost a third slower in real life!)
They can develop as many formats as they want, still doesn't change the fact that it's becoming more and more irrelevant to consumers and USB 3 is also coming along.
 
I Killed The "charade"!

It was the way Apple found to not let the 13.3" inch screen Macbook approach the Macbook Pro in quality. If one wants Firewire 800, that buys a more expensive notebook that will have larger screen to ease the manipulation of images/pictures.

To me it is sacrificing the conveniences of the clients. If one cannot buy a 15" or 17" screen notebook, but yet needs a firewire port, why to remove that right? Or Apple is so poor that to replace that important item, it will get billionaire by selling jurassic adapters that will link an equipment for use with firewire to a USB 2.0 port? This is more than ridiculous. Steve Jobs got a bit irritated when the people delayed a little bit to pass the case of the new notebooks hand to hand, but he doesn't want to hear if we will be irritated to have to buy a product from him that lost a crucial item for the users. I think that he won the battle with me, I will have to buy a Macbook Pro. Or I will have to forget that I won't need a better processor and a better video chip (I rarely use Photoshop and video players), and face the Macbook in white or black case. However it has firewire 400 port, and I need a firewire 800, so, yes, he won the battle, I will have to move towards a 15" screen notebook, the Macbook Pro. If most people do it so, Macbook will loose sales. Is Steve Jobs trying to kill the Macbook slowly to just remain the Macbook Air and Macbook Pro? By the way, the Air is also a 13.3" screen notebook, too.
:confused::confused::confused::mad::apple:
 
I would be able to accept leaving out FW in the consumer 'Books, if Apple offered a Pro model in the 13" form factor. I loved my little 12" PB and wish I could get the nicer features of the 15" (backlit keyboard, faster graphics, FW, etc.) in a smaller package. MacBooks are so much easier to use on the road than the Pros, especially when you're crammed into the middle seat of a 737.

I have a FW800 RAID system for video storage and also system backup. I can't give that up easily anytime soon. Sorry, USB-only is a step backwards.
 
Only on cheap consumer camcorders for people who don't edit video anyway. Talk about something you know about, because it's obviously not video, I've been producing video professionally for over twenty years and firewire is not going anyplace. Why do you think there's a new firewire standard coming it it was a dying technology. Plus, firewire is the standard for professional audio. The ignorance of people talking about things they know nothing about is overwhelming. :eek:
I may not know as much as you do but I can see trends and I know it's dying especially in the consumer market which is the market Apple caters to now, they see more money to be made with consumers.
 
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