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Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

Wake UP! Just accept the fact that Jobs made a marketing decision so that you guys who are in the market for a new laptop will get the MacBook Pro if you need Firewire. And if you can't accept that, there are other alternatives out there (like an previous GEN Macbook)

It's their business to run. If they lose out due to lost sales, it's THEIR problem, not yours.

Steve Jobs will never change it. There are articles out there already suggesting that there's no way engineering wise they could fit the firewire port back in unless they change the whole unibody design. And these were looked into by real engineers NOT from Apple.
 
ansj64 said:
There are articles out there already suggesting that there's no way engineering wise they could fit the firewire port back in unless they change the whole unibody design. And these were looked into by real engineers NOT from Apple.
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So? It's BAD design. It didn't have to be that way.
 
editguy said:
... Many on video forums are wondering what's going on with Apple. There hasn't been anew version of Final Cut Studio in over a year and a half. The iPhone has taken over their focus. That's fine if that's what they want to do with their business. But, as a professional, I'm looking elsewhere.

But, what all this really tells me is that Apple now considers themselves a consumer level electronics company. They've lost interest in the professional and serious hobbiest markets. They're addressing nothing but the concerns of consumers who do nothing but download music and surf the net. Heck if I'd pay $1300 for the privelege of doing that. I can do that with a $400 netbook.
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If you want a good laugh read Martellaro's article Playing With FireWire Is a Job for the Pros which warns "Don't Go Half-Pro".

I'm still trying to find the "pro" features on the MBP that I would actually consider "pro" features desirable for "pro" audio production. When I compare the "pro" features found on something like the LiveBook Mobile Audio Worksation by Rain to those on the MacBook Pro, the MBP ends up looking like a toy.
 
Belly-laughs said:
Not sure the current MacBook will look, or work, too good in 2012 either. They sell FireWire cameras today, Apple should include FireWire today. In my view they should include it until there are next to zero FW peripherals left on the market – which won´t be anytime soon.
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Zero peripherals on the market? You surely do not mean that. I would suggest that level of legacy support might not be all that profitable.
 
ansj64 said:
Wake UP! Just accept the fact that Jobs made a marketing decision so that you guys who are in the market for a new laptop will get the MacBook Pro if you need Firewire. And if you can't accept that, there are other alternatives out there (like an previous GEN Macbook)

It's their business to run. If they lose out due to lost sales, it's THEIR problem, not yours.
Click to expand...

It is our problem because it makes you forces you to make a very difficult choice between buying the Macbook and abandoning your investment in your firewire devices, spending $700 more on a notebook that is heavier and less portable than what you want, give up performance for an obsolete older model, or abandon your investment in Mac OS X and buy a competing notebook instead. Its fitting we're just past Halloween because with some of the choices we've had to make recently I'm beginning to wonder if Jigaw is running this company instead of jobs.

Steve Jobs will never change it. There are articles out there already suggesting that there's no way engineering wise they could fit the firewire port back in unless they change the whole unibody design. And these were looked into by real engineers NOT from Apple.
Click to expand...

Which they should have done. The previous Macbook was able to get a larger battery, save easy access to the hard drive, and a firewire port in a package .05 in thicker. Apple is making computers with aesthetic design and gimmicks as the only design factor. I'm not sure they actually care if it works as a computer these days.
 
ansj64 said:
Wake UP! Just accept the fact that Jobs made a marketing decision so that you guys who are in the market for a new laptop will get the MacBook Pro if you need Firewire. And if you can't accept that, there are other alternatives out there (like an previous GEN Macbook)

It's their business to run. If they lose out due to lost sales, it's THEIR problem, not yours.

Steve Jobs will never change it. There are articles out there already suggesting that there's no way engineering wise they could fit the firewire port back in unless they change the whole unibody design. And these were looked into by real engineers NOT from Apple.
Click to expand...

Er, actually it's very much our problem. Read the thread, or perhaps you'd rather try to be a troll with your ill-informed remarks.

Changing from using macs is a lot bigger deal than just switching from HP to Dell or whatever. And most of us really don't want to. We'd just like Apple not to treat it's most loyal customer's with such disdain. Customer's that have stuck with it through it's worst times, without whom it almost certainly wouldn't be here today. The relationship between Apple and its customers is quite different to the normal consumer - company dynamic. We're generally an exceptionally loyal bunch, but we do expect some consideration in return.

And as for "Steve Jobs will never change it", they've listened to customers before (FW800 on the first MacBook Pro), so i'm sure they can do it again. And engineering solutions are always available when you actually look for them. I'm sure if everyone just meekly accepts it as you suggest, then nothing will change. If we refuse to shut up about, it on the other hand, who knows...
 
Eric S. said:
Where are these articles? References please.
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I want to see them, too. I don't buy it. But, if it's true, then it's a poor design. It means any change would require a complete redesign.

Since design aesthetics seems to be the only goal these days at Apple, maybe they should design a notebook that is sealed shut. It just doesn't look as good with the display open. ;)
 
This "engineer" also apparently says:

"The new design approach involves putting the motherboard and ports all on one side of the notebook, meaning it was necessary to eliminate FireWire to make room for the Ethernet, USB and power connections."

- which i don't really get, as the ports are all on the one side on the old model too. And, as we know, that manages to fit in a firewire port. I just don't really believe it would be an unsurmountable issue if they really wanted to keep it.
 
cosmonaut23 said:
This "engineer" also apparently says:

"The new design approach involves putting the motherboard and ports all on one side of the notebook, meaning it was necessary to eliminate FireWire to make room for the Ethernet, USB and power connections."

- which i don't really get, as the ports are all on the one side on the old model too. And, as we know, that manages to fit in a firewire port. I just don't really believe it would be an unsurmountable issue if they really wanted to keep it.
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Although he doesn't work for Apple, that engineer sounds like an apologist for Apple. Why couldn't they have put the firewire in place of one of the USB ports? I still am not convinced it was an engineering obstacle. I believe it was a deliberate decision on Apple's part.
 
I don't know why people are saying the fire wire won't fit on the unibody. Just ditch one of the USB ports for a FireWire port. If you need more USB there are tons of cheap pocket sized hubs. What's the big deal???
 
editguy said:
Although he doesn't work for Apple, that engineer sounds like an apologist for Apple. Why couldn't they have put the firewire in place of one of the USB ports? I still am not convinced it was an engineering obstacle. I believe it was a deliberate decision on Apple's part.
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Exactly. It's a silly argument "that having the motherboard on one side of the notebook is more 'rational' than having it span throughout the entire device." That doesn't even make sense. And saying "this approach creates easier access to the battery and hard drive" means that Apple considered this to be higher priority than including Firewire. Once you have made that decision, it follows that Firewire will be removed. If that is the case, Apple's priorities are wrong. They should have started with the goal that Firewire is more important than battery and drive access convenience, and made design decisions from that perspective instead.
 
Eric S. said:
Exactly. It's a silly argument "that having the motherboard on one side of the notebook is more 'rational' than having it span throughout the entire device." That doesn't even make sense. And saying "this approach creates easier access to the battery and hard drive" means that Apple considered this to be higher priority than including Firewire. Once you have made that decision, it follows that Firewire will be removed. If that is the case, Apple's priorities are wrong. They should have started with the goal that Firewire is more important than battery and drive access convenience, and made design decisions from that perspective instead.
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And to top it all off the "old" Macbook already had easy hard drive and battery access, so what were they improving? If they weren't improving anything, then the removal of Firewire is doubly dumb. they don't even have anything to show for the loss of Firewire, S-video, and Composite video capabilities.

EDIT: And you can add to the (according to many people) the loss of true HDMI capability. The old Macbooks (via miniDVI-DVI-HDMI) would give the ovescan checkbox in display preferences. Now even that capability is gone when using miniDisplayPort-DVI-HDMI. What on earth were they thinking with these new Macbooks?
 
%$#@^%$# I'm so frustrated! I want to buy a MB! The MBP is just too big for my taste. I hate that Apple left us no option for firewire. At least find a way to make a conversion cable or something! They are completely screwing over musicians and dv cam users. :mad:

the best thing you can do is DON'T BUY A MACBOOK! and flood their inboxes with negative feedback.
 
ansj64 said:
Steve Jobs will never change it. There are articles out there already suggesting that there's no way engineering wise they could fit the firewire port back in unless they change the whole unibody design. And these were looked into by real engineers NOT from Apple.
Click to expand...

Actually, wasn't it SJ that launched the Touch gen 2 by saying our customers wanted volume control buttons, so we gave it to them?

Perhaps they'll listen to the negative feedback about removing firewire and fix that issue too if we all make enough noise. It was a VERY bad decision to remove it, even if the background economics was to force more customers to the Pro model.

There are enough low end PC laptops with firewire. They are effectively forcing customers to jump back when they can't afford (or want the larger, heavier Mac) version. Perhaps Microsoft ads should be "I'm a PC, and I've got a firewire port"...
 
wbeasley said:
There are enough low end PC laptops with firewire. They are effectively forcing customers to jump back when they can't afford (or want the larger, heavier Mac) version. Perhaps Microsoft ads should be "I'm a PC, and I've got a firewire port"...
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That would just serve Apple right. I sure hope Microsoft does such an ad, then maybe Apple will be embarrassed into putting it back in.
 
vvebsta said:
At least find a way to make a conversion cable or something!
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Such a cable is IMO impossible, because the difference between USB and FW is not just electrical signaling. These are completely different communication protocols and, in addition, FW does more of its communication in hardware and USB does more in software. Any such product that you see advertised is used only for a specific, limited purpose, and depends on software (Windows-only) written only for that limited use. (And I suspect it doesn't really work very well in any case.)

danny_w said:
That would just serve Apple right. I sure hope Microsoft does such an ad, then maybe Apple will be embarrassed into putting it back in.
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No matter how embarrassed Apple gets, adding FW at this time would be no easy task. As this thread has shown, it would require a motherboard redesign in addition to a change to the case. A modification like that requires a test and burn-in cycle that takes months. I would expect that if it does come back it won't be until the next major Macbook revision which is at least a year away (with the Nehalem chipset).
 
Eric S. said:
Such a cable is IMO impossible, because the difference between USB and FW is not just electrical signaling. These are completely different communication protocols and, in addition, FW does more of its communication in hardware and USB does more in software. Any such product that you see advertised is used only for a specific, limited purpose, and depends on software (Windows-only) written only for that limited use. (And I suspect it doesn't really work very well in any case.)


No matter how embarrassed Apple gets, adding FW at this time would be no easy task. As this thread has shown, it would require a motherboard redesign in addition to a change to the case. A modification like that requires a test and burn-in cycle that takes months. I would expect that if it does come back it won't be until the next major Macbook revision which is at least a year away (with the Nehalem chipset).
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Eric's right. There's no way before the next major revision.

But I would definitely enjoy that Microsoft commercial. ;)
 
vvebsta said:
%$#@^%$# I'm so frustrated! I want to buy a MB! The MBP is just too big for my taste. I hate that Apple left us no option for firewire. At least find a way to make a conversion cable or something! They are completely screwing over musicians and dv cam users. :mad:

the best thing you can do is DON'T BUY A MACBOOK! and flood their inboxes with negative feedback.
Click to expand...

No option? That is a bit of an exaggeration isn't it? Apple still sell the White MacBook. Its just tough luck to get both the Unibody AND firewire.
 
I'm not saying I know what it takes to change the cutting of the aluminum to fit the firewire but as far as the motherboard is concerned you wouldn't need to move much.

Here I even have a mock up :p...
 

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CrackedButter said:
No option? That is a bit of an exaggeration isn't it? Apple still sell the White MacBook. Its just tough luck to get both the Unibody AND firewire.
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I could care less about the unibody honestly. If Apple sold the white macbook with the same specs (nvidia graphics, illuminated keyboard, LED display) I would buy it in a heartbeat!!
 
vvebsta said:
I could care less about the unibody honestly. If Apple sold the white macbook with the same specs (nvidia graphics, illuminated keyboard, LED display) I would buy it in a heartbeat!!
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The above quote really now gets to the real heart of the matter for a lot of people...they want to have their cake and eat it too. ...
 
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