Customer satisfaction is also a goal of most companies, and one that Apple used to give higher priority to.
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Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks
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Customer satisfaction is also a goal of most companies, and one that Apple used to give higher priority to.
You can plug a serial mouse into in a USB->Serial adapter and it will work. A scanner should also work -- you may need drivers, but it should work. Virtually anything serial->serial I can think of should work in theory with very little work or software required.
On the other hand: Anything that requires real-time precision for anything time-sensitive, such as recording a live audio stream @192k in real-time, isn't going to be practical in USB->Firewire conversion. It's all about latency in audio -- you'd end up spending more to build a clock-controlled adapter and protocol conversion software, etc. required for accurate conversion of signals than it would be worth. It would be madness to even consider it. USB bursts -- Firewire is all about sustained transfers and avoiding "jitter". You'd have to synch the conversion to a real-time master clock and hope the translation program and USB could keep up, and still then precision of the clock would be another factor. It would be pure crap and add considerable CPU overhead...
Firewire works extremely well for audio production. It's extremely low latency and reliable. Unless they're on an extremely tight budget few people in the audio world would want to a step backwards to USB, in any form. One small "pop" or other imperfection is all it take to completely ruin an otherwise person "take" during a recording session. Unlike creating a written document, there is no backspace or insert key to magically correct mistakes in an audio recording.
Removing the FW makes it one choice degree more complex. If the MB had
FW it should been a matter of selecting screen. Now it's a real pain to choice.
No choices is right. I want it small. But I want it with FW. And it should have
decent graphics. What ever I do I will not be a happy buyer. If become a buyer that is.
USB is for keyboards and mice. But mice and keyboards are connected with bluetooth. Eh?
because you've already paid for them?
let me count - on my desktop i'm typing this from, i have:
* an apple kbd with a hi-speed usb hub, 2 ports; a mouse occupes one of them, the other is free.
* a nec lcd, with a hi-speed usb hub, 2 ports, self-powered; an ipod usually occupies one port, the other hosts watever comes - photo cameras, card readers, etc.
the machine all this uplinks to has just two usb ports, both permanently occupied by the above two "hubs", and nothing ever replaces these connectons.
the funny thing is that i've never consciously bought a single usb hub in my life, and yet see what i've ended with!
of course there are other bits, and those are way more taxing on the design than just another hole in the unibody. but historically, that has not been a problem until now, and actually continues not to be a problem in the MBP line. go figure.
Sure, my current laptop has firewire. But what happens if, say in a year, this computer dies on me like my last one did? What compact computer do I buy if I still want to use my firewire drives and video camera?
Think ahead, not in the past.
And they still do....except that maybe you're the exception as a customer....let's put it this way, how many macbooks have been sold? nd how may of those people who were sold macbooks complained there's no firewire? They can't cater to everyone. you want it cheaper and yet you want a product that has every macbook fan's wants and needs? When there's another version called MBP that can cater to that anyway?
Then you are not getting my argument....I am saying that if it's not present in the new Macbook, then DON'T buy it...use the older Macbook ...it still works doesn't it? MY point is, why do you have to have THIS new version when it doesn't fill YOUR need? Why do you have to impose YOUR wants and NEEDS on Apple? You are always free to decide NOT to buy the new one and buy/maintain the old one.
The only reason then for insisting is because you want to have the LATEST one when the old one still fits your needs. and that's what I am trying to say. It's not about me wanting to be cool.
The only reason then for insisting is because you want to have the LATEST one when the old one still fits your needs. and that's what I am trying to say. It's not about me wanting to be cool.
Sure, that's the only possible reason
Could it be that people will actually have to buy a new laptop at a given time, and they see this as a trend, and therefore do not like it?
Seriously, who in their right mind would consider it "cool" to have firewire or a non-glossy screen? Perhaps you're projecting the attempt to be cool?
You need to take another look. They took away firewire and raised the prices. And, in fact, most people in this thread have not been arguing for cheaper. They've been advocating for the SAME firewire that MB's had. Periiod.
Funny, you're the one claiming the opponent is not getting it while you completely ignore the crux of the argument:
Sure, that's the only possible reason
Could it be that people will actually have to buy a new laptop at a given time, and they see this as a trend, and therefore do not like it?
Sorry, but some people need a new computer NOW, other people see this as a TREND, as I already mentioned. Especially given the fact how Apple before have tried to nix firewire.
I don't "impose" anything. I am the buyer, I am one of the people they should be selling to. You honestly think that we can continue to buy old technology or continue to use a late 2007 whitebook? Adding firewire takes nothing away from people like you, whereas taking away fireway gains you absolutely nothing, but makes it useless as a computer for some of us.
Could you please try to hold the strawman argumentation?
Yes, I know. It's a strawman argumentation that has no bearing on reality.
Really? So that's why you inferred that people only wanted firewire in order to be "cool". Yup, makes sense
I don't want it cheaper. Over the years I've always paid a premium for Apple products, and I'm quite willing to pay more to get the machine I want. As for buying a MBP, I would do that happily if there were a 13" model, because the smaller size is important to me. (Just like I would happily buy a midrange tower, but Apple doesn't offer one of those either.)
And I will buy a Macbook, eventually. Firewire is not as important to me as it it is to some others, and I still have my Blackbook (I mostly want FW for target disk mode). But it's more a question of being upset at Apple's marketing techniques. Lately Apple looks more like Microsoft than the company I've been loyal to for over 21 years.
I have to tell you I have both the 15" MBP (late 2007) and the new MacBook 13" and the size difference is not big. To call the MBP less portable is stretching it in my opinion. Plus...you have a better screen with the MBP. The matte on my MBP is an amazing display.
Sometimes I want a 15" notebook again, but then for whatever reason when I use my MB I just fall in love with the 13" screen all over again.
It's not stretching it by any means when you are transporting numerous pieces of equipment and you are in locations where you are working in very tight confines so you need to reduce your footprint to have enough space. If you've never worked in audio or video on location you don't have a clue as to what the legitimate needs are. The 12" Powerbook was perfect, but the 13" MB would be a reasonable substitute, if it had retained Firewire. The 15.4" MBP is too big for my needs and, as is obvious by the length of this thread, it's too big for many others.
Eric
I do agree that the marketing is a bit of a problem right now for me...esp those PC vs Mac ads. Both have their places in the sun. Hssing from franboys starting now...
Actually, as I said, it's a business decision which some people who love to roll their eyes in the discussion don't seem to understand. As of last count, there's like 15,000 -20000 who signed their firewire petition out of how many who actually have a MAcbook in their hands right now??? A million, 2 million??
They can't seem to get my argument that if THIS LATEST iteration is not useful,then get the previous gen Macbook which DOES have firewire. Their argument is, if I keep my firewire equipment forever, Apple should keep it in their latest Macbook designs forever....
Of course, they will then argue that NO, when I change out my equipment, APple can take it out....guess what, then every Tom Dick and Harry out there has to be catered to for their needs. Oh, Apple should have maintained the old display ports because that's all I have...oh, Apple should have not taken out the express slot because that's all I have...brother.!
IT"S A TOOL, If it can't be used for YOUR needs...get another tool that WILL.
I do agree that the marketing is a bit of a problem right now for me...esp those PC vs Mac ads. Both have their places in the sun.
Hssing from franboys starting now...Actually, as I said, it's a business decision which some people who love to roll their eyes in the discussion don't seem to understand. As of last count, there's like 15,000 -20000 who signed their firewire petition out of how many who actually have a MAcbook in their hands right now??? A million, 2 million??
They can't seem to get my argument that if THIS LATEST iteration is not useful,then get the previous gen Macbook which DOES have firewire. Their argument is, if I keep my firewire equipment forever, Apple should keep it in their latest Macbook designs forever....
Of course, they will then argue that NO, when I change out my equipment, APple can take it out....guess what, then every Tom Dick and Harry out there has to be catered to for their needs. Oh, Apple should have maintained the old display ports because that's all I have...oh, Apple should have not taken out the express slot because that's all I have...brother.!
IT"S A TOOL, If it can't be used for YOUR needs...get another tool that WILL.
Well, if Apple can give you what you want, THERE ARE other laptops out there WITH firewire.....
[/quote]Sorry, but some people need a new computer NOW, other people see this as a TREND, as I already mentioned. Especially given the fact how Apple before have tried to nix firewire. [/quote]
Maybe they don't want to sell to you anymore since you're a small segment of the market who still needs firewire???
"I don't "impose" anything. I am the buyer, I am one of the people they should be selling to. You honestly think that we can continue to buy old technology or continue to use a late 2007 whitebook? Adding firewire takes nothing away from people like you, whereas taking away fireway gains you absolutely nothing, but makes it useless as a computer for some of us."
I am not saying firewire is cool...YOU are since you insist on it...I am saying people want the macbook to make themselves look cool. As I said, you can buy the MBP or other laptops that will fill that need and yet you still insist on the Macbook....
[/quote]
Yes, I know. It's a strawman argumentation that has no bearing on reality.
Really? So that's why you inferred that people only wanted firewire in order to be "cool". Yup, makes sense[/QUOTE]
[/quote]Sorry, but some people need a new computer NOW, other people see this as a TREND, as I already mentioned. Especially given the fact how Apple before have tried to nix firewire. [/quote]
Maybe they don't want to sell to you anymore since you're a small segment of the market who still needs firewire???
"I don't "impose" anything. I am the buyer, I am one of the people they should be selling to. You honestly think that we can continue to buy old technology or continue to use a late 2007 whitebook? Adding firewire takes nothing away from people like you, whereas taking away fireway gains you absolutely nothing, but makes it useless as a computer for some of us."
I am not saying firewire is cool...YOU are since you insist on it...I am saying people want the macbook to make themselves look cool. As I said, you can buy the MBP or other laptops that will fill that need and yet you still insist on the Macbook....
[/quote]
Yes, I know. It's a strawman argumentation that has no bearing on reality.
Really? So that's why you inferred that people only wanted firewire in order to be "cool". Yup, makes sense
[/QUOTE]NO, you don't say!?
As have been explained to you several times, this is not as easy as simply choosing an HP over a Dell. This is a full-on migration.
Sigh … Have you ever done any audio or video editing?
The thing is, you are implying (with the use of the word "still") that firewire is old superfluous technology, when it clearly isn't. There are no, NO, substitute for firewire. None, whatsoever.
Apple nixed firewire from the iPods. They nixed the FW800-port on the first MBP, they nixed the FW400-port and reintroduced the useless Agere FW-chipset on the newest MBPs, and removed Firewire entirely on the MacBook. See a TREND yet?
Hmm, you were saying that the only reason we wanted firewire in the MacBooks was to "stay cool". You think we use firewire to stay cool among our buddies, or even think that we get "coolness" point for using a mac, or, hell, that we care about "coolness"? As I said, I'm fairly certain you're projecting here.
im dissapointed
Im very mad and dissapointed in Apple and Steve Jobs over the descision to not include the firewire port on the ew Macbook. I was going to purchase it, but when I went to the store and found this out it completely ruined my interest in one. And I dont want a Macbook pro since what interested me was the MacBooks size and price.
Im very mad and dissapointed in Apple and Steve Jobs over the descision to not include the firewire port on the ew Macbook. I was going to purchase it, but when I went to the store and found this out it completely ruined my interest in one. And I dont want a Macbook pro since what interested me was the MacBooks size and price.
For those that don't have an investment in Firewire or need/want the performance a Firewire port brings, the MacBook is the best built laptop on the market. When I picked one up in my hands, and looked at it closely, it is an amazing machine.
But if you do want Firewire (for whatever reason), that same MacBook seems limiting and incomplete.
Firewire wasn't going to win over the masses to buy a MacBook, but the lack of Firewire prevents sales to people who find it important.
And it's a shame because the cost of including FW in a $1299 laptop is negligible. I'm not an expert in technology, but I'm guessing the controller chips(re: southbridge, northbridge ?) already are capable of handling FW so it is a matter of adding traces on the motherboard, adding a FW chip and a port.
Again, I'm guessing, but I doubt it would cost $20.
That's true. But apple don't have any small computers. The 13" is a heavy weight machine compared to the PC's. But still the smallest laptop from apple. A 10" is what I realy need... with firewire pls.
Over 16000 signatures:
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?MB1394
and now 1900 posts.
Apple, the people are speaking! We need firewire back on the 13" macbook!
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?MB1394
and now 1900 posts.
Apple, the people are speaking! We need firewire back on the 13" macbook!
1.) The MacBook is not cheaper but more expensive than the previous one. At least there is no Medium one now, where you can get full features for lower price. Instead the high end one shares the price point of the black MacBook.
2.) There is no Powerbook with Firewire despite of 15.4" or 17" models. Nothing portable.
3.) I am willing to pay a premium for FireWire on a 12" or 13" machine. I am as well willing to pay premium to get a black one and not one of those cheap looking silver ones which - from distance - look like $30 DVD players not like high end equipment.
That said: I bought a 13" Aluminium MacBook for it's the only alternative for me right now. I would have bought a MacBook Air if it would offer more RAM/HD but that's not an issue.
It's very high quality and I really can't complain, but the look from a distance is really cheap. Not as cheap as the old MacBook Pro with it's silly silver plastic keyboard though.