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Wow, I think this is one of the most useful additions to this conversation in days. :) Called 'em out. I wonder why they did it; seems so arbitrary without a concession or replacement.

That's the real question isn't it - why?

And while others may dismiss it as idle speculation, i think it an ideal question to grapple with on the MacRumors forum.

My speculative answer, given what facts we know, is this: There were several factors influencing Apples decision to drop Firewire on the MacBook. This fall into the basic categories of expense, upsell, obsolescence and precedent. There were most probably design issues with putting Firewire into the new case. These could almost certainly have been overcome, but only after more expense and time in the design phase. Faced with this, other advantages of ditching Firewire will have become more apparent: the cost of the chipset and the licensing(?), and the fact that Firewire needs to be able to draw a lot more current than USB2, probably necessitating a more pricey power supply. Add to the the upsell factor - MacBook Pros are suddenly differentiated by having Firewire, possible increasing sales of the high end machines, (obviously banking on people staying with Macs and not switching). Also add to this Apple's desire to do with Firewire 400 altogether. This is not because Firewire per se is obsolete or no longer in demand, but rather, it's been superseded by Firewire 800, which is fully backward compatible. Firewire 400 is also known to suffer from a design flaw (not present in FW800) which causes ports to blow. If this happens when machines are under warrantee, it's a further expense to Apple, so another incentive to get rid of it. Finally the MacBook Air factor - the MBA has been Apple's single most profitable computer line in the last year, and it's set the precedent of being the first Mac for years not to have firewire. Presumably, the huge success of a computer without Firewire has persuaded Apple that dropping it from another laptop line wouldn't necessarily cause too many problems.

Altogether then, a compelling business argument for getting rid of Firewire on the Macbook.

Having said all this, I would still argue that this decision was a strategic blunder for Apple. It might not be such a bad thing for their bottom line in the short run, but that's hardly an issue for them at the moment. What's much more in question is whether they can continue their recent successes in the medium and long term. Firstly it's a terrible way to treat customers. To bring out a new product line having removed a major piece of functionality, without replacing it or providing any work around, is guaranteed to inconvenience or enrage a lot of people. The argument that it's somehow not needed anymore is clearly nonsense, and not an explanation anyone whose invested in Firewire devices is likely to accept.

Using firewire to leverage upselling (to the MacBook Pro) is also unwise. It may work in some instances, but it's shooting themselves in the foot, as it harms Firewire as a standard. Not only are there less machines supporting it, and therefore, less people developing for it, but this lack of commitment or clarity over Firewire, will only serve to persuade both users and third party developers that the future of the standard is uncertain, making it's gradual demise all the more likely.

With regard to obsolescence, it does indeed make sense to get rid of Firewire 400 in favour of 800, or better still S3200. What surprises me is that this was not done long ago. Symptomatic of Apple general confusion when it comes to strategic thinking, I think. Had they grasped the nettle long ago, and fully switched to FW800, there would be massively more support for FW800 everywhere else too.

The MBA argument may also turn out to be spurious - although Apple has been able to rely on high-end consumers to buoy it's sales, counting on this at the expense of it's more traditional base could be a very risky strategy, both in terms of the current "credit cruch" and its effects, but also because Apple relies heavily on creative users for the identity of the Mac computing platform. Also let's not forget that the MBA was designed a super lightweight laptop with functionality deliberately reduced in favour of portability. Hardly a template for future computer design across the board.

Finally, Firewire has been very much in keeping with Apple's focus on good design over the years. Within computing, there's been a general move towards dedicated subsystems for data-intensive tasks: dedicated graphics cards, network adapters, IDE / SCSI / SATA buses for storage etc etc. There's good reason for this - it frees the main system up for more of what you want it to do and a subsystem will generally perform the task far better. Firewire, with its own bus, is very much in keeping with this approach, and as such has proven itself to be outstandingly well suited for a great many tasks. It would be a great shame if Apple, who invented it and nurtured it, and who have contributed so much to it's ongoing development, suddenly failed to have the vision to support it any more.

Sorry, long-winded i know, but i've been thinking about this, and i wanted to share:)
 
Actually, I think it's both. Apple has chosen to play in the high-end of the market with these new models, and the economic slowdown hasn't helped. People in the market buying a new laptop will probably go with cheaper alternatives.

On the other hand, those that were waiting specifically for a MacBook and were counting on Firewire may be holding back and just keeping their older machines just awhile longer.

And too, there's probably a lot of (new) people who will end up not buying the new MacBooks once they find out that Apple omitted Firewire. There's been several articles in the digital audio world advising users not to buy, including:

BLOG: Why musicians shouldn't buy Apple's new MacBook

New MacBooks & MacBook Pros - Apple omitted musicians???

FireWire-free MacBook wack?

Whither, FireWire? What the New Apple Laptop Port Changes Mean for Audio

New MacBooks Lack Firewire

Apple rep tells customer MacBooks aren’t designed to handle GarageBand

Five years from now it's quite likely that Apple will end up with far fewer creative people using Macs.
 
One should add that USB audio devices usually cause much higher latencies than FireWire devices, which makes real-time audio applications via USB painful.
Firewire doesn't offer lower latency but it usually offers more bandwidth than usb.

The real issue is the better audio interfaces—the ones you'd prefer to buy—are Firewire. It's too bad Apple offers the ExpressCard on only the Pro as well—a Firewire expansion card would potentially solve a lot of gripes.
 
This may technically be true, but in real-life audio applications, using a firewire interface certainly results in lower latency.
In my experience, it depends on how many channels you're recording and what else you have running.

With Firewire, there's no cpu overhead which frees up the processor to do other things like process plugins in, say Logic, so that's an immediate benefit. If all you're doing is recording a couple channels of audio, USB works pretty well.

That said, I did leave Apple feedback myself about their omission. It's really a kick in the crotch to 3rd party manufacturers as well.
 
Mostly because it has dedicated chip instead of using the CPU.

Yup. But that doesn't change the fact that in real life firewire will yield lower latency, as opposed to what was inferred in the post where supposedly they were equal.

In my experience, it depends on how many channels you're recording and what else you have running.
Or kHz and bits. In other words, it depends on how saturated the line is.

With Firewire, there's no cpu overhead which frees up the processor to do other things like process plugins in, say Logic, so that's an immediate benefit. If all you're doing is recording a couple channels of audio, USB works pretty well.
That's just the thing, isn't it? "Prettty well" isn't "the same as", nor is it good enough for professional work.

That said, I did leave Apple feedback myself about their omission. It's really a kick in the crotch to 3rd party manufacturers as well.

Good. I hope more people do that.
 
....
Good. I hope more people do that.
I entered my frustration, very politely concerning the lack of Firewire on the MacBook.

I doubt it will help unless the feedback expressing this omission reaches into the hundreds of thousands, which I doubt will happen.:(
 
I entered my frustration, very politely concerning the lack of Firewire on the MacBook.

I doubt it will help unless the feedback expressing this omission reaches into the hundreds of thousands, which I doubt will happen.:(

That could be true, but then again, if an entire group of say, audio and/or video professionals, complain about the lack of Firewire, then even a small number of complaints could have a big effect.

In the end, Apple will have to make a decision on who they want to cater to. The high-end consumer market looking for a fashion accessory can be very fickle, while the enthusiast, serious hobbyist, and professional market can be a smaller, but steady customer base that can pull them through even the toughest of times. The decision is up to them.
 
This week, my computer class at school upgraded their entire lab with newer models of the Mac Pro. My teacher spent the majority of the day today copying over files using target disk mode with FW800. Copying over all that data would be a nightmare without firewire!

I don't see how Apple can do without FW.
 
I entered my frustration, very politely concerning the lack of Firewire on the MacBook.
Likewise.

Lack of FW also decreases future sales potential.

The more of us that let Apple know politely about our frustration, the more they may listen. The usual rule of thumb is for each responder, there are 10 more out there who feel the same but don't provide feedback.
 
I am so sick of this. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A USB TO FIRWIRE ADAPTER!

:D OMFGWTF...somebody finally mentioned the fabled USB-FireWire adapter...I'm surprised it wasn't sooner. :rolleyes: Almost as pathetic as people buying a digital-analog converter box for their 20-year-old TV. Except that those "adapters" really DO exist. :D :D
 
:D OMFGWTF...somebody finally mentioned the fabled USB-FireWire adapter...I'm surprised it wasn't sooner. :rolleyes: Almost as pathetic as people buying a digital-analog converter box for their 20-year-old TV. Except that those "adapters" really DO exist. :D :D
Reading this reminded me.

Why didn't Apple just put FW800 instead of the Ethernet port.

Most of the individuals that I know who use laptops connect wirelessly and prefer not to use their LAN connection.

If a user needs to connect to a LAN, then they can use the already existing Apple USB to Ethernet adapter. It's small and easy to carry.

And for those who do not desire to carry the adapter, they can purchase one for each site, such as work and home, that they connect via LAN and leave them connected. Then instead of inserting the CAT 5 cable connector, they insert a USB connector. Simple.
 
This week, my computer class at school upgraded their entire lab with newer models of the Mac Pro. My teacher spent the majority of the day today copying over files using target disk mode with FW800. Copying over all that data would be a nightmare without firewire!

I don't see how Apple can do without FW.

what? no ethernet?
 
what? no ethernet?
Some of us prefer FW800, or FW3200 in the future.

Also, even if you have Giga Ethernet, it will be slower than FW800 if you have other activities going on your LAN during your back up period. Depending on your LAN, you may experience slow downs due to collisions as well.

With FW:
  • Cloning is easy.
  • Easy to boot from an external FW800 HD.
  • Doesn't clog up your LAN while doing the clone.

Plus as this thread has highlighted, there are other important uses for FW over USB, let alone Ethernet.
 
Some of us prefer FW800, or FW3200 in the future.

Also, even if you have Giga Ethernet, it will be slower than FW800 if you have other activities going on your LAN during your back up period. Depending on your LAN, you may experience slow downs due to collisions as well.

With FW:
  • Cloning is easy.
  • Easy to boot from an external FW800 HD.
  • Doesn't clog up your LAN while doing the clone.

Plus as this thread has highlighted, there are other important uses for FW over USB, let alone Ethernet.

Quite so. I have never used the ethernet connection on any of my iBooks/MacBooks. I would willingly sacrifice that in exchange for a firewire port, especially an 800 or 3200.

Every serious Mac user I know (i.e. those who repair them or work with them for a living) regularly use firewire. To ignore these people is absurd.
 
Every serious Mac user I know (i.e. those who repair them or work with them for a living) regularly use firewire. To ignore these people is absurd.
Agree.

As a tech guy, I enjoy being able to connect an external pocket drive with FW800 and boot from it to trouble shoot a Mac. Fast and simple.

Of course you can do it with USB. Speed is similar to molasses in January. ;)
 
if usb is really the direction they are going, will the next version of iMovie allow you to import directly into using usb?
 
if usb is really the direction they are going, will the next version of iMovie allow you to import directly into using usb?

That was one of the big features of iMovie '08. I believe Jobs demonstrated an AVCHD camera when the newest iLife was released. Anything that uses MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 through USB should import into iMovie without any trouble.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1014#2

An Ethernet to FireWire connector actually sounds like an excellent idea if Apple was having trouble finding space for the port internally. Condition: include the adapter in the box.
 
Next update will give Al Macbooks firewire.

The next update of the Macbooks will give the Macbooks a firewire port. The reason why current Al Macbooks dont have firewire is to finish off the inventory of the Plastic Macbooks, which do have firewire port.

Hope this satisfies peoples' need for explanation for lack of firewire in the new Macbooks.

Enjoy life...
 
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