In fact i'd go so far as to say this thread's had it's Firewire port removed. It's now relying solely on USB.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
In fact i'd go so far as to say this thread's had it's Firewire port removed. It's now relying solely on USB.
Before someone mentions the "USB to Firewire adapter" again, here's the latest news about that:
You can't add gigabit ethernet with a USB adapter. Both built-in FW and ethernet are essential.
I don't think anyone is actively petitioning for the removal of ethernet. Just like no one petitioned for the removal of firewire.
Some posters in this thread SOUND like they petitioned for the removal of firewire!
Understand your point.
But how many really have a Giga LAN that they connect to at home, and in many cases work.
USB 2 is 480Mbps. Of course that's not sustained. Probably can get around 150-200Mbps sustained after conversion from Ethernet to USB and vice versa.
That is still faster than 100Mbps LAN and much faster than most home and many Internet connections now.
I'm curious. Anybody have a Giga LAN set up at home? If so, how much does it cost for ISP fees? What kind of modem, router & switch do you use?
I don't understand why Apple is becoming so cookie cutter? If I were wanting to gain more of the market I would want to give people as many options as I could. Let people pick what they want. USB, FIREWIRE, SATA, SUPERDRIVE BLURAY, BACKLIT, UN-BACKLIT, MATTE, GLOSSY. Trying to put the consumer into a stereotype saying this is what you will need, buy this... isn't good business. Are they abandoning the THINK DIFFERENT?? Everyone is different. Give us options.
But the USB-to-ethernet adapter will not give you the full USB connection performance, only a maximum of 100 Mb/s. From the tech spec:
"The Apple USB Ethernet Adapter is a simple, one-piece external adapter that plugs into the USB 2.0 port of your MacBook Air to provide 10/100BASE-T performance."
Unless you are transferring lots of data within the network, wireless-n is just as fast as Gigabit Ethernet for most people. It is certainly faster than any but the very fastest internet connections. So for most people there is no longer any need for a wired connection.
USB ethernet adapters?!
I think it would be completely insane to drop an ethernet connector off laptops for so many reasons, beats some silly peripheral (marketing...) argument.
Very simply, it doesn't get more 'standard' and everyone moves data around (that's not just office documents?)
ps. I don't own any firewire gear (or apple laptops)
I think it would be completely insane to drop an ethernet connector off laptops for so many reasons, beats some silly peripheral (marketing...) argument.
Very simply, it doesn't get more 'standard' and everyone moves data around (that's not just office documents?)
ps. I don't own any firewire gear (or apple laptops)
Remember, that's advertised. It could be faster in actual application.
But even at 100Mbps, you can DL a 1.5GB movie is about 2 minutes.
My point i that most will never see Giga speed in their home setup. However, they can easily see FW800 performance.
...As far as the MacBook not having room, I don't believe it. Previously, I linked to a 13" Dell that had Firewire and both an express card slot and card reader.
The pictures of the MacBook motherboards don't show the layers of the motherboard, but isn't it common to have 4 to 8 layers(re: I just read where the Intel Nehalem may require 8 layers) for traces? Surely there is room for the traces to be properly added on one of these layers. That means Apple only needed to add one chip, a small one at that, connected via traces on one of the layers and wires to the plastic firewire dongle port. I just don't buy it, and I don't buy it that it couldn't be done on the current board, but then again I'm not an engineer, just a frustrated consumer.
I don't buy it either. Are we really to believe that the company that's produced the much lauded engineering feat of "the world's thinnest laptop" really can't fit a Firewire port into the new version of the MacBook, which has an almost identical form factor to the old model? (3.3mm thinner - big deal.)
So before continuing these discussions of what else can be got rid of in order to make way for FW, try remembering that it was left out *deliberately*.
Companies have made deliberate decisions before that came back to haunt them; no company is perfect. This is just another such case. Once Apple starts losing large numbers of video, audio, and school (and probably others) customers they will see what a mistake they made, deliberate or not. Especially in education, apple has built back up to a very large share; now they may very well (and probably will) start to see that erode again all because of this one decision.
Good point!
When Apple introduced the PB15, then the PB12 and PB17, customers had a wonderful choice of "Pro" laptops.
The iBook models, 12 and 14 inch, provided good consumer laptop designs.
The two lineups were easy to distinguish. This made it easy to choose what you needed.
Now, the lines are becoming convoluted. The construction is basically the same. No 12 inch model exists. The 13 inch model could be the pro 12 replacement if it had FW.
IMHO, it seems that Apple is getting lost a bit in their laptop offerings.
As I mentioned above, I see two lines: MBA and MBP.
I would like to see, in rough concept:
MBA
- 13 Low end model
- 13 High end model
MBP
- 13
- 15
- 17
All have FW and matte screen option. Each version has a low end and high end model.
Simplify the lineup while giving the customer some good choices and options.
The current MB and MBP models are very similar in design and looks. Too similar I think.
I don't think there's anything convoluted about their current set up – we're just in a transition, and in all but name, the Pro is dead:
13 and 15" updated macbooks.
New MBA.
Previous gen 17" MBP – will soon be updated, so we have 13,15, and 17" similar books.
The previous gen white MB will soon die.
When this transition is over, we will have just one MacBook in three different sizes and then an "superlight" for the tossers out there.
You choose the size, and then the speed. Ah, yes, they will still use the "pro" monicker to piggy back of of the reputation the real-life pros gave Macs, even though they weed up and down their backs this time around.
I really don't see anything complicated or anything in this phase. There are just some old(er) computers which haven't been updated yet.
What has one thing to do with the other?
You want to use Gigabit LAN connections for fast file transfers between your computers. Except for ultra-large ISPs, nobody needs Gigabit Ethernet for Internet connections. And even ISPs usually "only" have multiple 34Mbps - 200Mbps connections to their data centers.
But most large offices are wired using fiber optics or copper other fast carriers. Your computer's Ethernet plug is then connected via a converter box to the fiber optics network (or whatever else there is in the office) and believe me, you want Gigabit Ethernet in such a setup to take advantage of the network transfer speeds.
Gigabit ethernet - not everyone uses it, but its important enough to a proportion of users that it should be kept.
Exactly the same as with Firewire.
(Except that with FW it's even worse, as there's really no work around of any kind).
Steve Jobs remark about digital cameras is so completely uninformed and narrow. In one glib remark he completely discounts all of the other devices that rely on the firewire interface. Yet another example:
http://www.hasselbladusa.com/products/scanners.aspx
Hasselblad scanners are considered the best around. I use one daily on my Powerbook 12". Its insane that I still have this laptop, but there is STILL no replacement that matches its feature set. Its so infuriating.
The crazy thing is that I went to craigslist and bought my wife a Powerbook 12" recently because they're such great versatile machines. I would have LOVED to buy a new macbook (e.g. a 13" macbook pro - if it existed).
Its not a money issue Apple - raise the price - just give the people what they want!
http://www.hasselbladusa.com/products/scanners.aspx
Hasselblad scanners are considered the best around. I use one daily on my Powerbook 12". Its insane that I still have this laptop, but there is STILL no replacement that matches its feature set. Its so infuriating.
The crazy thing is that I went to craigslist and bought my wife a Powerbook 12" recently because they're such great versatile machines. I would have LOVED to buy a new macbook (e.g. a 13" macbook pro - if it existed).
Its not a money issue Apple - raise the price - just give the people what they want!
They already *did* raise the price. In the UK the new basic model is now 35% more than the old basic model used to be. (Yeah, the one that had Firewire.) That's a hell of a price rise for something that's not as good. And in a recession. Good one Apple.
That, is a 64 dollar question.
I wonder if Vega is taking odds?
I believe that there is a huge potential for a PowerBook 12 replacement model. A MBP13 model would probably be good for those folks. I say MBP in that it would have FW, Ethernet and the same video as the MBP15. The beauty of the PowerBook 12 was that it was a full featured laptop and very convenient to carry.
Hopefully Apple will address this issue soon.
That, is a 64 dollar question.
I wonder if Vega is taking odds?
I believe that there is a huge potential for a PowerBook 12 replacement model. A MBP13 model would probably be good for those folks. I say MBP in that it would have FW, Ethernet and the same video as the MBP15. The beauty of the PowerBook 12 was that it was a full featured laptop and very convenient to carry.
Hopefully Apple will address this issue soon.
Everyone I know who owns one keeps them until they literally die.
That, is a 64 dollar question.
I wonder if Vega is taking odds?
I believe that there is a huge potential for a PowerBook 12 replacement model. A MBP13 model would probably be good for those folks. I say MBP in that it would have FW, Ethernet and the same video as the MBP15. The beauty of the PowerBook 12 was that it was a full featured laptop and very convenient to carry.
Hopefully Apple will address this issue soon.
Not a 13
It needs to be no wider than the keyboard. The beauty of the 12" PowerBook is that it was the smallest machine you could buy with a full-sized keyboard, and it didn't waste a crapload of space on the the bezel like the MacBooks do.
A widescreen machine of the same width would be 10.5-11" diagonal display.
Same here.
I purchased one for my Dad a few years ago. Still works great.
Normally I would agree with you. However, the more I play around with the MB, the more I think that it could be a good replacement provided:
- FW is added. (Discussion in this thread has covered some options. Not sure if someone mentioned it, but other than Ethernet --> FW, or simply add FW, Apple could change one USB port to a FW800. That way the MB would have Giga Ethernet, FW800 and USB 2.0. Sure 2 USB ports would be nice, but giving up one for FW800 would be worth it for many folks.
- Video is updated to something similar to the new MBP15.
- Matte screen option.
Just my take. I am sure others will have a different opinion.