Absurd - that is a joke right? For an explanation of the reasons try Post 2098 of this thread.
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Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks
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Absurd - that is a joke right? For an explanation of the reasons try Post 2098 of this thread.
It has nothing to do with the white model. It was pure and simple cut because of the design. There was no where to put it.
Okay, some questions:
1. How many connect to the Internet via Giga Ethernet?
2. How many have all of their equipment (modem, router, switch, cabling, etc.) rated at Giga Ethernet?
3. How many max out their 802.11g, let alone n, WiFi connection?
The answer to all these questions is none, or not many.
My point is that most home set ups do not use, nor need, Giga Ethernet. Even if you have FIOS in the states, few locations approach 100Mbps at this time, so unless you have an elaborate setup that allows dual, or more, channel use, I doubt many even approach 100Mbps, let alone 1,000Mbps.
There you go!I think they should do away with ALL the ports and make them all a "pro" feature...
Expansion is over-rated...
May I ask what you are smoking?
Yep.
I use gigabit ethernet much, much more than I use FireWire (connected right now, as a matter of fact), and that's 100% of the users I care about.
For me, losing gigabit ethernet would have much greater impact than the loss of FW.So you have all Giga network equipment at home and connect to the Internet at greater than 100Mbps speed?I use gigabit ethernet much, much more than I use FireWire (connected right now, as a matter of fact), and that's 100% of the users I care about.
If so, what equipment do you use? Curious?
I'm not sure that's the intention either. By choosing the cheaper and problematic Agere FireWire chip in the MBP, Apple has ensured the maximum discomfort to those 'pro' devices which worked extremely well on the former Texas Instrument chip. I think Steve wants us to see FireWire in the worst possible light to justify his own decision to begin the kill. Maybe he has a trick up his sleeve and at some point he's going to say "hey look what we've invented, an alternative that's going to cost you $xxx - we think it's going to be huge". Only this time people's trust and faith will have moved on.
Not at home; I use it at work, where the Macbook becomes (unfortunately) a Windows box that runs various types of analyzer software: USB, SAS. We use different types of routers and switches from Netgear, Cisco, etc.
At home it has a completely different personality, Mac OS and entirely wireless.
ethernet is essential just like wireless is, in a modern laptop . FW isn't. That's why FW is gone and the ethernet port is still there.
ANY flash-based or hard disk based camera including AVCHD models will only import via USB. iMovie 08 does this today, I use this weekly.
BTW obviously this is the future of cameras on the consumer side, a simple check over at the Sony or Canon sites will confirm this. Despite those on this thread that refuse to accept it
You certainly can argue that tape based DV cameras are far from being dead though and that Apple is taking this out of consumer laptops too soon, at least when you confine the issue to talk about cameras
I totally disagree. It presented a significant design challenge, sure, but that could have been overcome if the will was there. Unibody design not withstanding, lets not forget that the new MacBook has almost identical dimensions to the old one.
Again, gotta disagree. Most people use wireless networking these days. In fact i'd put money on Firewire getting significantly more use from (older model) MacBook owners than the ethernet port. Not that it's superfluous - the new MB would have both if Apple deemed it important enough that they did. This was done by choice, make no mistake about it.
I guess the new MB is perfect for people living in the future but for people living in the present it's not as nifty.BTW obviously this is the future of cameras on the consumer side, a simple check over at the Sony or Canon sites will confirm this. Despite those on this thread that refuse to accept it
Lethal
...and the aluminium casing is thinner than the plastic. As i said, almost identical.
Well said.I guess the new MB is perfect for people living in the future but for people living in the present it's not as nifty.
Who knows what the future will bring...
- FW3200
- USB 3
- Something new
But in the here and now, FW400 & 800 are better than USB for many uses at this time.
That said, I do like the MB form factor. Almost can overlook the glossy screen. Maybe in RevB, Apple will squeeze a FW800 port in there. Although, I am not holding my breath.
ANY flash-based or hard disk based camera including AVCHD models will only import via USB. iMovie 08 does this today, I use this weekly.
BTW obviously this is the future of cameras on the consumer side, a simple check over at the Sony or Canon sites will confirm this. Despite those on this thread that refuse to accept it
You certainly can argue that tape based DV cameras are far from being dead though and that Apple is taking this out of consumer laptops too soon, at least when you confine the issue to talk about cameras
The future, maybe. But it doesn't help anything right now.
Every video camera utilized by the art and architecture departments at my university are DV-based.
And my firewire drives aren't magically working with USB now. Stop trying to defend this bad Apple tactic.
ANY flash-based or hard disk based camera including AVCHD models will only import via USB. iMovie 08 does this today, I use this weekly.
BTW obviously this is the future of cameras on the consumer side, a simple check over at the Sony or Canon sites will confirm this. Despite those on this thread that refuse to accept it
You certainly can argue that tape based DV cameras are far from being dead though and that Apple is taking this out of consumer laptops too soon, at least when you confine the issue to talk about cameras
You and Steve Jobs forgot to mention that up to this day ONLY Canon and Sony AVCHD Cameras work well with Apple editing software...
http://www.macworld.com/article/133790/2008/06/camcorder.html?t=226
Without tweaking, third party apps or workarounds it is next to impossible to log and/or edit AVCHD material from many JVC, Panasonic and Sanyo models with a Mac.
Would you call this user friendly? Do you honestly think amateurs are willing to deal with such nonsense?
Apple jumped way too late on the AVCHD wagon to drop FW already!
The main reason I opted for HDV (FW-based only...) was Apple's lousy AVCHD support!!!
My first computer was a Mac and I never edited with anything other than FCP or iMovie.
Unfortunately it looks like my next portable will be a 12/13" FW-equipped PC notebook with SpeedEdit to check my footage on the road...
I understand where you're coming from, but your example is very poor. Backup/recover files via the network can be done in parallel for several computers, doing the same with one FW drive is silly. That's why your friend spent all day doing it instead of setting up the backup/recovery and going out to do something else with his time.
Don't think my example is silly at all.
I would venture to say that I can back up, as in clone, my MBP15 with a 500GB HD faster with FW800 than doing it over a Giga LAN that has multiple computers doing typical network activity, let alone if the other computers are DL'ing/UL'ing large files.
Giga LAN is 1,000Mbps.
FW800 is close to 800Mbps
LANs require a bit of handshaking as well which reduces overall throughput. Additionally, if you have multiple computers sharing the LAN, then they will be placing additional stress on the throughput. This would be especially true if large files were being DL'ed or UL'ed during your backup. And as the LAN data transfers approach capacity, it will be more prone to collisions which further slows things down.
Nope, give me FW800 or FW3200 for cloning and backing up. I don't have the time to waste that it would take on a Giga, let alone 100Mbps network.
In reality, only those of us who use and know the capabilities of FW will miss it. Newbies to the Mac community who have never had it, will not miss it. To them, USB will probably be good for their needs.
I can't imagine doing a clone over USB or the LAN. Way too long for this kid.
1394 TRADE ASSOCIATION: A COMMENT ABOUT APPLE'S LATEST MACBOOKS
In October of 2008, Apple introduced the latest entries in its MacBook line of portable computers. While the MacBook Pro continues to offer users a FireWire 800 port, two of the less expensive MacBooks have no FireWire ports whatsoever. This choice left many users wondering why Apple would leave off the best connection for so many of the applications that drew them to the Mac in the first place?
FireWire's widespread availability in desktop computers, laptop PCs, peripherals, storage devices, and home theater components indicates that many consumers and professionals find FireWire's unique attributes a useful - and even necessary - part of their electronic experience. Additionally, FireWire's adoption as the connection of choice for industrial applications and its growing use in automotive networks and many other markets further demonstrates its many unique attributes.
Read more...
FireWire's Strong Presence in Notebook PCs, Storage, Instrumentation Applications Points to Solid Future Growth, 1394 Trade Association Reports
Growth in the PC notebook, storage, peripherals, and industrial market sectors continues to propel the IEEE 1394 (FireWire) standard to another strong year of growth.
New notebook PCs from global leaders such as Acer, Dell, Fujitsu, Hewlett Packard, Toshiba, Sony and others incorporate FireWire -- and the 800 Megabit/second version (S800) is now a virtual standard in storage systems from leading manufacturers. The number of 1394-equipped notebook PCs has increased by approximately 20 percent in 2008. Among the PCs recommended to users by Consumer Reports in its December 2008 edition, 75 percent featured FireWire, including brands from Sony, Acer, Dell, Lenovo, and Hewlett Packard.
MacBook Pro Users Insist on FireWire
"The overwhelming support for FireWire is proof of the strength of the technology and the value users place on it," said James Snider, executive director of the 1394 Trade Association. "The feedback also points to the value that applications realize as users and designers continue to adopt the more powerful FireWire800 standard." Snider added, "There is every indication that Apple executives are paying attention to the FireWire discussion and want to address users' concerns."
Read more...
In October of 2008, Apple introduced the latest entries in its MacBook line of portable computers. While the MacBook Pro continues to offer users a FireWire 800 port, two of the less expensive MacBooks have no FireWire ports whatsoever. This choice left many users wondering why Apple would leave off the best connection for so many of the applications that drew them to the Mac in the first place?
FireWire's widespread availability in desktop computers, laptop PCs, peripherals, storage devices, and home theater components indicates that many consumers and professionals find FireWire's unique attributes a useful - and even necessary - part of their electronic experience. Additionally, FireWire's adoption as the connection of choice for industrial applications and its growing use in automotive networks and many other markets further demonstrates its many unique attributes.
Read more...
FireWire's Strong Presence in Notebook PCs, Storage, Instrumentation Applications Points to Solid Future Growth, 1394 Trade Association Reports
Growth in the PC notebook, storage, peripherals, and industrial market sectors continues to propel the IEEE 1394 (FireWire) standard to another strong year of growth.
New notebook PCs from global leaders such as Acer, Dell, Fujitsu, Hewlett Packard, Toshiba, Sony and others incorporate FireWire -- and the 800 Megabit/second version (S800) is now a virtual standard in storage systems from leading manufacturers. The number of 1394-equipped notebook PCs has increased by approximately 20 percent in 2008. Among the PCs recommended to users by Consumer Reports in its December 2008 edition, 75 percent featured FireWire, including brands from Sony, Acer, Dell, Lenovo, and Hewlett Packard.
MacBook Pro Users Insist on FireWire
"The overwhelming support for FireWire is proof of the strength of the technology and the value users place on it," said James Snider, executive director of the 1394 Trade Association. "The feedback also points to the value that applications realize as users and designers continue to adopt the more powerful FireWire800 standard." Snider added, "There is every indication that Apple executives are paying attention to the FireWire discussion and want to address users' concerns."
Read more...
ANY flash-based or hard disk based camera including AVCHD models will only import via USB. iMovie 08 does this today, I use this weekly.
BTW obviously this is the future of cameras on the consumer side, a simple check over at the Sony or Canon sites will confirm this. Despite those on this thread that refuse to accept it
You certainly can argue that tape based DV cameras are far from being dead though and that Apple is taking this out of consumer laptops too soon, at least when you confine the issue to talk about cameras
Most will end up being flash memory based AVCHD, not hard disk. So, transfers will be done through a card reader, not USB. So if Apple's looking to the future, where's the built in card reader on the MB?
Arguments about what will be in the future are silly. We don't live in the future. By the time it gets here, this version of the MB will be outdated. You can't future-proof a computer. The technology changes too quickly. They should be manufactured for current needs.
It is easy to add ethernet using a USB adaptor. You can not do the same with FireWire.
Great post, thank you.
I enjoyed the "MEDIA ANALYSTS' RESPONSE:" and "PUBLIC RESPONSE:" links in the first article you cited.
Well said.
As far as the MacBook not having room, I don't believe it. Previously, I linked to a 13" Dell that had Firewire and both an express card slot and card reader.
The pictures of the MacBook motherboards don't show the layers of the motherboard, but isn't it common to have 4 to 8 layers(re: I just read where the Intel Nehalem may require 8 layers) for traces? Surely there is room for the traces to be properly added on one of these layers. That means Apple only needed to add one chip, a small one at that, connected via traces on one of the layers and wires to the plastic firewire dongle port. I just don't buy it, and I don't buy it that it couldn't be done on the current board, but then again I'm not an engineer, just a frustrated consumer.
We can. I'm telling you, this was a deliberate omission.
You're absolutely right! You're absolutely right! You're absolutely right!