Steve Jobs Once Considered Killing Apple's Pro Products

[nickgri]

Price of a tool

I don't think anyone even remotely educated would argue that Thunderbolt has amazing potential, and USB3 offers a lot of bandwidth, but the point still stands that, on average, most thunderbolt devices are more expensive, sometimes more than people can afford.

A tool that makes your job that much easier is worth it's weight in any trade. For video editors and 3D animators-cost for these things is not really an issue to a point-getting the job done without frustrating waits and hiccups is worth a lot.

 

[dragje]

Steve did invent the iPod. He didn't invent the portable music player. But he was approving the interface, the click wheel etc, everything that makes the iPod an iPod.

Tell me something new Yes, Jobs was a good salesmen.

 

[anthony11]

True, but are you able to get around that and see that it's an incredibly brilliant and functional design?

With no internal storage, I can't, because it isn't.

 

[threesixty360]

What seems to be happening is that though their hardware can still claim to be "pro," the software is now "prosumer." I like the new Logic a lot -- but I don't work in a NY studio. I like the new Final Cut better than the older versions -- but I don't make Hollywood movies. It's what the pros think that matters if you're making pro apps.

The problem is pro's know what they want but developers know what is actually possible. The state of the affairs is that developers have to disappoint pro's regularly in order to move forward and ultimately benefit the professionals. Its like "break up to make up" I suppose.

Apples fatal mistake for Final Cut Pro X was not providing a temporary bridge to the new world. Making a new world is fine but pro's have to eat and they cant just disrupt everything.

Apple need to split the way they make pro software / hardware away from teh consumer products. Pro products need road maps and regular consulting to the community about where they are going. Delivering pro products is a partnership. Apple is one of the suppliers to that industry and should treat their customers in that way. Musicians and film makers are professional because they sell products and services just like Apple do. Normal consumers do not sell things so it doesnt matter when they get surprised by change. A business cannot afford to be "surprised".

The idea that a pro can come in to work on Monday and finds they can't purchase the previous copy of Final Cut Pro even though their whole studio is based around it is just nuts! Could Apple survive if they turned up to work on Monday and found they couldnt buy any more intel chips? Its the same thing.

Either Apple should respect the image, marketing and r&d ability that pro's give the brand or get out of the business totally. Film makers didnt leave for Avid because Final Cut Pro X was bad. They left because the attitude Apple displayed was not right and put their long time business in jeopardy. They thought they were in a partnership with Apple but it turns out Apple just saw them as dumb consumers. That has to change.

Hopefully things like Apple showing off the Mac Pro signals that they have a better attitude to this sector. After all, it is the thousands of musicians, film makers and other creative professionals that have made Apple the no.1 brand, not some fickle consumers buying ipads at best buy.

 

[Count Blah]

well, i don't use any video software so i don't know personally if it's better or worse.. all i know is that i can find plenty of people that are doing great work on final cut x.. and i can't help but to think those people are simply more adaptive to change than others and the whole fiasco has nothing really to do with the actual design/functions of the new app.. it's more about people not able to change..

same thing you see with the new mac stuff.. the computer is fine.. it's going to be a lot more powerful and faster than the previous version (not just talking a little clock speed bump that we see much more of)..

so i admit..i'm taking your post with a grain of salt

Come on, it was a MUCH more dramatic shift than when Apple dumbed down iMovie. Taking away features for an "easier" experience for consumers is one thing(and Apple got blasted for it), but taking away features from professionals is inexcusable, no matter how much you want to paint Apple as being infallible.

 

[subsonix]

Come on, it was a MUCH more dramatic shift than when Apple dumbed down iMovie. Taking away features for an "easier" experience for consumers is one thing(and Apple got blasted for it), but taking away features from professionals is inexcusable, no matter how much you want to paint Apple as being infallible.

Ease of use is a bad argument IMHO, everyone gains from added ease of use.

 

[spaz8]

Good point... but the GPU still falls under PCIe expansion.

There are some Mac Pro owners who have never performed a GPU upgrade.

Maybe keep your fingers crossed for replaceable GPUs on the new Mac Pro. They still haven't said too much about it. "Coming Later This Year" can't come soon enough

I'm concerned about GPU replacement, I have upgraded my gpu 3x, starting from what was the best I could get initially. (every 18 months)

I would not be surprised if we need to wait for the nMP v.2 before we see upgrade card options - beside the initial v.1 options.

 

[rdlink]

i hear you. i mean, you just repeated what i said about the past 30 years worth of computer design.. why does a motherboard have to be square? there's no functional reasoning as to it's shape.

the past 30 years has been trying to get all this stuff to work.. the past 10 years as being realizing that yes, all this stuff works.. so now we can start refining.. this happens over and over and over throughout technological history.. i mean, i'm not making things up.. maybe i just have my eyes open a bit more or smthng..

even if you're not design minded, i think its worth considering the possibilities that the engineers did not start with the shell and work inwards.. they worked outwards and this shell is the result

I agree that you're both saying about the same thing. I would tweak your last statement, and this is the beauty of the Apple design mindset: They didn't purely design from the inside out, and this was the resulting container. They did totally rethink the inner components, but at some point they started to think about how rethinking the inside components would allow and necessitate their rethinking the shape. The shape allows for more efficient use of the inside components, by sharing heat dissipation components amongst all of the heat creation components. Then, the cylindrical design allowed for one, efficient way to pull all of that heat out of the device.

Another product line that was revolutionary in this regard was the Macbook Air. If you start from the premise that a laptop computer by design needs to be efficient in sitting on someone's lap, you know you can't completely redesign the footprint. But why does the logic board need to be as big as it's been over the years? Because Dell, HP, Asus, Lenovo, etc. are too lazy to rethink it? So Apple stepped back and said, "OK, we want a small, light, but powerful laptop that's not just a lockstep clone of the crappy netbook design. Let's make the logic board as small and efficient as possible, and that includes making the storage and memory tiny but powerful. Then we have room for a boatload of battery to make this thing run all day." The result was what, in my opinion was one of the most revolutionary physical designs of the last 15 years, and it created a new segment of mobile computing known as the ultra book.

Pause this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjR4FZSgUKY at 3:10. Just look at what they did with the logic board, and what it did for batteries. Nobody before them thought that far outside the box.

 

[sransari]

It would have definitely been a mistake to have eliminated pro products. The core of apples spirit lies in the hearts of the pro user. Those are the ones that are inspired to do great things using apples most powerful and killer products, vs the mainstream user who is inspired only to use mainstream products to share pictures of their crappy food. The possibilities are literally endless with a beast of a machine like the Mac Pro. Why a company would consider scrapping their very best product for short-term increases in profit margins is just too short-sighted.

This is why I am also a little worried about the direction of the Mac Pro. It seems to ignore a cornerstone requirement of the pro user, which is internal expanadablity, opting to prioritize physical space...not a concern for most pro users.

 

[KohPhiPhi]

I personally think that, for almost a decade, Apple has already been transitioning away from its original niche mentality to a broad market mentality.

Think about Apple's most popular products: iPod, iPhone, Macbook Air, Ipad, iTunes, iMacs, etc. They're all geared to the consumer, not to the professional. Moreover, is there anything really PRO about the Macbook Pro line anymore? Those laptops are not about sheer performance. Even the upcoming Mac Pro is not really that mindblowing in terms of raw power.

My opinion? Apple has taken a wise move to embrace the broad market.

 

[Oracle1729]

A tool that makes your job that much easier is worth it's weight in any trade. For video editors and 3D animators-cost for these things is not really an issue to a point-getting the job done without frustrating waits and hiccups is worth a lot.

But to be worth its weight, you have to get some benefit out of it. In what way are the extra costs ($$ for thunderbolt gear, a sloppier desk with extra external boxes, and lower reliability from external cables getting yanked and coming lose) worth any benefits for the iTrash? What are the benefits of the iTrash over the older version except it looks prettier to some people until you add all the externals.

 

[KohPhiPhi]

It would have definitely been a mistake to have eliminated pro products. The core of apples spirit lies in the hearts of the pro user. Those are the ones that are inspired to do great things using apples most powerful and killer products, vs the mainstream user who is inspired only to use mainstream products to share pictures of their crappy food.

Eerrrr you haven't really paid much attention to Apple as of lately, have you?

How many times have the iPhone, Macbook Air or the iPad (truly mainstream products) been updated in the last 3 years? A bunch of times each. And, during that same time window, how many times has the Mac Pro been updated? One time.

Face it: Apple has been almost exclusively targeting the mainstream market for years now, and wisely so!

 

[Oracle1729]

I personally think that, for almost a decade, Apple has already been transitioning away from its original niche mentality to a broad market mentality.

So Apple can dump the pro art world because there's no profit in it and I suppose that's fine for Apple to do.

The problem is apple requires you be in their mac ecosystem to develop for any of their products and they're dumbing all their macs into cheap consumer-oriented junk. How successful will the iPhone 7 be if Apple has chased a lot of app devs away from their ecosystem in the next couple of years?

They can't abandon the pro niche without opening their dev tools to windows, and Apple will never do that (and rightly so), but that means they have to properly support the power-users as a cost of running their ecosystem.

 

[sransari]

They're glad they didn't do this. Killing off the product line that your most dedicated (vocal) fans use is a great way to sour the entire community against you. Even though they might make more money in the short term, they would be seen a less serious company. You know, one that investors might end up not taking seriously either. It would have also probably resulted in less of an emphasis on innovation, but that isn't a guarantee.

Totally agree. Killing the Mac Pro would have affected (negatively) the entire ecosystem.

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Eerrrr you haven't really paid much attention to Apple as of lately, have you?

How many times have the iPhone, Macbook Air or the iPad (truly mainstream products) been updated in the last 3 years? A bunch of times each. And, during that same time window, how many times has the Mac Pro been updated? One time.

Face it: Apple has been almost exclusively targeting the mainstream market for years now, and wisely so!

That's my point that apple is ignoring its pro users, the most enthusiastic users they have. And that is a mistake.

 

[Oracle1729]

How many times have the iPhone, Macbook Air or the iPad (truly mainstream products) been updated in the last 3 years? A bunch of times each. And, during that same time window, how many times has the Mac Pro been updated? One time.

Face it: Apple has been almost exclusively targeting the mainstream market for years now, and wisely so!

They still need the high end stuff to make the Apple side look impressive. When the 12" and 17" powerbooks came out, I was absolutely wowed by that 17" monster. It was way out of my price range at the time, so I 'settled' for the 12" as a good substitute and decided I loved the small form factor. Because of the effect the 17" had on me, I've bought several smaller macbooks over the years.

This is not an unknown phenomenon, Costco puts huge, insanely expensive TVs near the door so that people will go wow and start thinking about how nice a new TV would be, then they walk a bit further into the store and see much more affordable TVs that are still way better than what they have.

BWM 7-series most certainly help them sell 3-series.

Not a whole lot of people buy Nikon D800's or D4's, but the fact that those low profit cameras are out there helps them sell a whole lot of D3200's to people who might settle for Sony cams in the same price range, and it's the cheaper cameras and P&S's where Nikon makes the real money on volume.

Basically the high end stuff helps sell people on the brand and then they buy the consumer oriented stuff which fits their wallets and really does suit their needs just fine.

 

[subsonix]

Eerrrr you haven't really paid much attention to Apple as of lately, have you?

How many times have the iPhone, Macbook Air or the iPad (truly mainstream products) been updated in the last 3 years? A bunch of times each. And, during that same time window, how many times has the Mac Pro been updated? One time.

Face it: Apple has been almost exclusively targeting the mainstream market for years now, and wisely so!

Some of it comes down to intel, their upgrade cycles for Xeon is slower. But Apple skipped one version (Sandy Bridge) on the Mac Pro. Some of it has to do with the fact that what you call mainstream is now perfectly capable of professional work in many areas.

But the original statement made by Jobs must be from 1999 - 2003 (or so) so it has very little bearing on what goes on in Apple today, especially since they have released both OS X, the cheese grater (both PPC and intel) and Xserve in the meantime.

 

[H2SO4]

this is just wrong.

I develope the Most Advanced fluid simulation system used in movies like 300, ironman 1 to 3, avengers, battleships, 2012, man of steel. And I do it an a MacBook.

For coding you don't need a macpro. You need ssd and many cores. Perfectly fine with a MacBook retina. Compiles the same code where the Xeon with 16 cores and hard disks needs about an hour in less than 12 minutes.

You need a macpro for simulating. And yes it is a hell of a machine regarding the gpu computing power it will be replacing 6 current machines we have.

Really? I'm not being sarcastic.
I'm firstly wondering which Mac Pro is 16 core.
Then I'm wonderign how they'd stack up if both are outfitted with the same SSD and amount of RAM.
If you are really up against it then surely a Mac Pro, even the old one is faster?

 

[Ed A.]

i thought they already got rid of all their pro products?
or maybe i've just been reading the mac pro forum too much

Logic Pro X, Final Cut Pro X and Aperture are the top grossing products in the App Store. Why would Apple want to sabotage that revenue stream?

 

[kmoreau48]

On the positive side, now I can say that my trash can looks like a mac pro

 

[subsonix]

Not a whole lot of people buy Nikon D800's or D4's, but the fact that those low profit cameras are out there helps them sell a whole lot of D3200's to people who might settle for Sony cams in the same price range, and it's the cheaper cameras and P&S's where Nikon makes the real money on volume.

Well, it's going to be interesting to see what the smartphone camera does to those cheaper cameras.

 

[the8thark]

I wish Apple would have broken off or sold the Pro division, and licensed OS X and Mac technologies to them in exchange for non-compete in the consumer market.

Remember the clones of the 90's. Apple already tried that with OS7-9 and the hardware at the time. One of the worst decisions Apple ever made. It's best Apple don't do this again.

 

[69650]

So glad Apple didn't cancel the 17" MBP. I guess he forgot to mention that one.

Agreed and it's important to note that while Steve didn't can the Pro products in the end, they have definitely moved down the pecking order at Apple.

 

[e-coli]

...in the right category on the NAS system.

Yeah you lost me somewhere in there.

 

[the8thark]

Apple lost the education market a long time ago. Mostly because Dell practically gives their computers away to institutions.

I would disagree 100%. There's tons of iPad in education articles out there. Sure Apple never had 100% of the edu market. But they never "lost" it as you claim.

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Same argument with ..

Why your computer display is rectangular?
Why your keyboard consist of square keys?
Why your shoes look like shoes as it is today?

Everything can be made oval, trapezoid, round, or amorphous if we want it. We could, but should we?

It's the norm, it's what people perceive from the very beginning. The new MacPro not just looks like trashcan, but it also stands out compared to other Apple products, but not in a good way. It's crap design IMO. Let's just hope the innards not.

How if the new MacPro designed just like hideous Razer or Alienware, also throw some crazy LEDs as a bonus, would you call it a Mac design?

People thought removing the floppy drives from computers was blasphemy. But years later people are glad it happened. I think it's the same with the MP design. People are so used to pro machines in ugly rectangle boxes, a cylinder just blows their mind, they can't understand how it's even good hence they hate it.

Just give it a few years and the masses will finally understand it and praise it. It's a simple case of Apple skating to where the puck will be. A few years ahead of what people will accept as viable. Which is god cause if you design what is good for now, when you release it, it's already outdated. But design what is good if a few years, it'll be just right when it released for sale.

 

[Tknull]

I find it interesting... that the consumer (non-pro) level products are faster and more capable than what pro level stuff was just not long ago. But they still are not adequate, as media (video, etc) have gotten much larger and require more processing power. But one would think that we should reach a point soon where the media will not need to get more complex (you cant, or don't need to, go beyond high def, or 3D modeling wont become 4D)... so at some point should not the capabilities of consumer level and pro level equipment converge?