Steve Jobs Posts 'Thoughts on Flash' Open Letter

[John.B]

I guess i am the bona-fide MAC fan boy; after many years on the evil PC I migrated to MACs at work and at home many years ago..

Mac users don't spell Mac in all capital letters. Stop pretending you are some college professor. No one is buying it.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

Very true... It's unfortunate collateral damage... But I guess they gotta take an all or nothing approach with third party development tools. Having looked at Unity, I don't see why Apple would necessarily be opposed to it, since games made with it still have to be published through the App Store and not through some runtime in a browser. Maybe Apple will just buy it and integrate it into the SDK 🙂

I wouldn't be surprised if Unity and Torque simply retool their wares to fit Apple requirements, but it might mean months of lost time. That can be the death of a small developer while it gets figured out. 🙁

My take away from this whole debacle is play the Apple way or don't bother at all. It sucks to not be able to kill multiple platform birds with one stone a la Flash or Unity, but as you say the iPhone OS is cool and people want their apps on it and are willing to make sacrifices to make it happen.

It is cool! But I guess some devs, especially game devs, need cross platform development now because the app store is so unbelievably crowded. The chance of app success has gone down a lot, even with a great game. I wonder if more and more devs are simply going to take the least risky route (and if that means excluding apple). I'm certainly waiting to see if that will have to be the case.

 

[interconnect]

The reason is that if the flash coding is wrong and slows down my machine, I (the user) should be one choosing what I want for my machine (iPad or iPhone), not Steve.

Imagine that Steve Jobs start blocking my adobe aplications in my mac pro, that is what he is doing with the iPhone and iPad.

The problem that all the blind falks here do not see is that THE IPHONE AND IPAD ARE MINE!!!! AND I AM SUPOSED TO DO WHAT EVER I WANT WITH IT!!!!.

There is wher adobe has a zilion% right. The ned consumer has the right to choose what he wants for the device he adquire.

Steve & Co. are smarter than you. They know best, didn't ya know?! This is the sacrifice you must make when buying Apple products.

 

[John.B]

Jobs is so full of it, it's unbelievable.

The thing that NO ONE is talking about with regards to HTML five is web applications. What the hell do you people think is going to happen once people are able to bypass the app store by running robust web applications in their browsers? What happens when they can get all the web video they want for free (or at least outside apple's ecosystem) once HTML5 takes off?

Are you really so blindingly stupid that you think Jobs will let you do it because it's "open"?

LOL it's really like some people have selective memory when it comes to companies they love.

This move is pandering simply to buy more time in a closed and limited ecosystem to get more people hooked into it. Nothing more.

You can write web apps for the iPhone and iPad *today*. You can write iPhone/iPad apps using HTML/Webkit and Javascript *today*.

What was your point again?

 

[AquaVita]

You can write web apps for the iPhone and iPad *today*. You can write iPhone/iPad apps using HTML/Webkit and Javascript *today*.

What was your point again?

And they suck and no one uses them because it isn't full html5 support yet. That's what I'm saying, wait until that happens, especially with regard to web video etc.

 

[JediZenMaster]

And they suck and no one uses them because it isn't full html5 support yet. That's what I'm saying, wait until that happens, especially with regard to web video etc.

I'm Sure there are people who use them. Dont cast those people away just to bring Validity to your argument. Which is something that it currently lacks

 

[giosaccone]

Great Steven Paul Jobs! 😀 I fully agree with You!

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Look, I can empathize with your POV, but allowing just the option would greatly hinder widespread adoption of HTML5. If people were given that choice, despite the superiority(?) of HTML5, would devs even bother with HTML5? It may rot on the vine. Betamax was a superior format but lost out to VHS (not the greatest analogy, I realize). You're getting the poop-end of the stick, I know. But it's not like you don't have other options.

OK, and I can appreciate your points. But let's be real. Forbidding Flash on the small percentage of web using devices as these 3 products from Apple is but a blip on the scope of all web using devices. I can't imagine it adding much acceleration to the adoption of HTML5, etc. As a developer, it does make one think about HTML5, but only as added work if a client wants something they've got going via Flash to also work on iDevices.

One can't go either-or, as HTML5 is scantly supported now outside of Safari, so a developer can't embrace HTML5 in lieu of Flash until all the major browsers fully support HTML5, etc in a unified way. The impact of this is that a bit of interactive programming that would classically get done in Flash can still get done in Flash (and still play on about 97% of the worlds computers), OR the company the developer works for can pay more and/or wait longer for a version to ALSO be created in HTML5, etc in support of the tiny percentage of users capable of correctly displaying content created that way. Just because "Apple says so" doesn't work well when it comes down to paying more for substitution functionality for a tiny percentage of devices that can handle it.

There's more going on here than what was addressed in Steve's letter - but make no mistake the Flash platform is a direct competitor to not only the iPhone OS but also the new iAd platform. The sooner and harder Apple can step on Flash's throat, the better for them.

And I appreciate this as well. But who exactly wins with this when you say it is better for Apple? Are consumers wanting to access content but can't somehow winning by not being able to access such content? Or is Apple winning solely for Apples revenues?

Sometimes what's better for any company is not better for that company's customers. In this case, it's easy to see how the demise of a solution like Flash is good for Apple's business objectives. But that's a benefit at select user's expense (IMO).

 

[zacman]

On Mac OS X Safari's HTML5 implementation is up to 3 times slower than the flash player running the same code.

On the iPhone 3GS HTML5 is up to 30(!) times slower than the same code in Flash on similar Android phones with Flash support.

http://vimeo.com/10553088

 

[WilliamLondon]

i much prefer Engadget's summary/rebuttal.

I'm sure their childish (and it *is* incredibly childish) response has *nothing* whatsoever to do with the latest iPhone-stolen-prototype-your-goons-broke-into-our-editor's-house spat!

 

[muncyweb]

Consumer's Choice

Again, leave this up to the consumer...

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showpost.php?p=1575778&postcount=217

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I'm pretty sure he understands it. "Flash video" usually refers to .FLV, using the Sorensen codec, etc. Sure it supports playback of h.264 video now, but so does the browser natively (HTML5), so I guess Steve's point is that if you're going to upgrade your video from .flv to H.264 format anyway, then why do you still need the Flash player container?

Because in that Flash container it will play on the world's computers (except iDevices), and all of the major browsers?

In that HTML5 code, it will play in Safari and Chrome? So if you want it to play on all computers, you'll have to include the other version anyway.

 

[Hal Itosis]

Well, it looks like Flash will never come to the iPhone OS now.

No one ever expected that. Really!

Interesting points, but I still wish we could use Flash, even if it made battery life half an hour.

[😱 i'm still working on a suitable comment for that one]

I don't read any new information in this letter. I think Steve was just reiterating the views we already know.

"We" meaning well-informed geniuses like you (and me, and others who digest technology on a daily basis)? -- then yes.

But Apple isn't selling products only to people with engineering degrees. His letter there is for public consumption by the masses at large... developers and customers like joe-6-pack (or anyone not tuned in enough to distinguish whether their battery life is short due to some 3rd-party software, or simply because "my iPhone sux".).

I also don't really see much validity in much of the arguments, except for the fact that Flash impacts battery life. There's a very simple solution for that : let the user decide whether he wants to enable flash or not. Oh but wait, Apple doesn't want the users deciding anything lately 🙄

No no no. If the web needs to be retooled anyway for the world of touch-based GUIs, then let's not retain Flash. Instead, use the opportunity to weed it out:

• Diary Of An x264 Developer
  
• Open letter to Google: free VP8, and use it on YouTube

Holy crap! First he starts answering email from the common folk and now he's blogging.

That's not exactly a recent phenomena: "Thoughts on Music" (Feb. 2007)

 

[lilo777]

I find it ironic

that the advice on how to develop the software comes from the CEO of a company notorious for having the worst software development tools in the industry 😀

 

[seangw]

My Response - so many problems

Here's a link to my response to the letter:
http://www.seangw.com/wordpress/index.php/2010/04/apples-steve-jobs-thoughts-on-flash-and-my-response/

Basically, Steve Mentions a lot of important items, but it just doesn't add up. He just wants control over the medium. You can't mention "Open" and talk about the app store / iPhone / iPad development -- without smirking a little bit.

 

[126351]

I guess i am the bona-fide MAC fan boy; after many years on the evil PC I migrated to MACs at work and at home many years ago. My work is technical - I am a Professor of Computing but i work in a major UK university specialising in the creative industries. For many years the mantra here was PCs bad/MACs good; Gates bad/Jobs good. However recently i am beginning to doubt these long held articles of faith.

1) For one thing Windoze 7 aint so bad - finally beginning to catch up MAC OS - - certainly for home media [imho having used both extensively] Windoze 7 Media Centre slams equivalent MAC Elgato [EyeTV] products.

2) Despite the mantra from my post grad days, Bill Gates is not the anti-christ - evidenced (a) by the the huge amounts of money he has given to charity and (b) helping persuade Warren Buffet to contribute massively to Gates' charity foundation.

3) Jobs' attitude over Adobe & Flash is seriously alarming friends and colleagues here in the creative industries:

a) I couldn't care less if Flash is buggy and uses iPhone power - web sites i use, deploy it and i want to use those web sites;
b) As a software engineer i am outraged that Jobs has the nerve to tell me what tools i must use to write code for the iPhone platform; OK, check my App to check it meets platform requirements and restrictions if you must but if i wish to use Adobe tools, that should be my choice..

In conclusion I feel that perhaps the zeitgeist at my university is just beginning to move away from Apple. If Apple is seem as overly controlling - and here at my university it now is - Windoze is improving and Gates' no longer seen as the Devil, then I fear Jobs' may be seriously be miss-reading the mood of the times.

These restrictions on Adobe are a mistake Steve; one of your employees should be brave enough to tell you..

Steve can tell you what tools to use. This is called the Developer Agreement and whether you choose to sign this or not has no bearing on the legal or moral validity of Apple's terms.

BTW - I'm always amazed by how many IT folk are unable to differentiate between the Macintosh (Mac) and Media Access Control (MAC).

 

[champ01]

I love this.

Now, whats gonna be next?!

1. Will Abode boycot Apple for being right?

2. No more Photoshop on the MAC?

3. Apple is going to show us the Photoshop killer?

4. Adobe's income drops like mad and Apple says "I told you so stupid"?

6. Developers get more quality tools to create magical applications?

7. Users are not effected, but receive new better applications?

Ladies and Gentleman........ Let the rumors begin. 😀

 

[John.B]

On the iPhone 3GS HTML5 is up to 30(!) times slower than the same code in Flash on similar Android phones with Flash support.

There are no shipping Android phones with Flash support. Hence, no way to independently test the validity of your claims.

 

[lilo777]

Steve can tell you what tools to use. This is called the Developer Agreement and whether you choose to sign this or not has no bearing on the legal or moral validity of Apple's terms.

BTW - I'm always amazed by how many IT folk are unable to differentiate between the Macintosh (Mac) and Media Access Control (MAC).

And I can decide whether I care for Steve or Apple or Mac or I'd be better of moving my business to Android.

 

[John.B]

And I can decide whether I care for Steve or Apple or Mac or I'd be better of moving my business to Android.

And yet, you're still here...

 

[MattG]

Great to hear Apple is so keen to leave the past behind. That explains the state of the art graphics cards and Bluray players in all its Macs. Oh, wait...

^ ^ ^ THIS ^ ^ ^

I'm pretty neutral on this whole thing, but seriously Apple...pot, kettle, black. Going on about leaving the past behind and wanting to give the best user experience, when your die-hard fans are routinely disappointed by your hardware offerings. Releasing new laptops with processors that have been available for what, 3 or 4 years? Leaving the past behind...gimme a break.

 

[zacman]

There are no shipping Android phones with Flash support. Hence, no way to independently test the validity of your claims.

You can download the Flash 10.x beta for the Nexus one. And the HTC Desire and Legend actually ship with Flash support built in NOW. So your statement is just wrong.

And as you can see for MacOS X: Even Apple can't implement HTM5 in Safari in a way that it outperforms the really crappy Adobe Flash plugin... That tells a lot about HTML5.

 

[bigrob66]

the denial of Flash as an option is what bothers me

Despite Jobs' arguments, I still don't understand why Apple would deny customers the ability/option to install a Flash plug-in on an iPad or iPhone.

Not being able to view Flash on my iPhone is merely an annoyance, given the small screen. But not being able to view Flash on an iPad is a deal breaker for me. Perhaps in the future, Flash will become irrelevant on the web, but in the near term it isn't. That is the immediate reality.

Battery life? I don't care. I could turn Flash off if I were unable to recharge for a long time.

Reliability? Flash is not the only third-party app to run on these devices. Even if it is prone to crashing (I have not experienced this), there is other software on these devices that can crash too, including Apple's software / OS.

I wonder if the underlying reason Jobs will not allow Flash on the devices is emotional. Is there a reason for him to be bitter at Adobe? And the overwhelming vehemence of the fanboy crowd against Flash seems emotion-based as well.

I guess I don't like the denial of choice Apple imposes sometimes. For example, the lack of a matte screen option on the iMac kills that option for me, otherwise I'd love me a i7 iMac.

I'm just happy they don't hamstring all of their computers. *eagerly awaits next Mac Pro rev* 🙂

 

[126351]

And I can decide whether I care for Steve or Apple or Mac or I'd be better of moving my business to Android.

Exactly.

However, no-one is denying you that right but if you are going, go.

 

[reticulate]

Because in that Flash container it will play on the world's computers (except iDevices), and all of the major browsers?

In that HTML5 code, it will play in Safari and Chrome? So if you want it to play on all computers, you'll have to include the other version anyway.

This. So much this.

The argument was never about codecs. Flash can transport quite a few codecs.

Transport is the argument, and always has been. FLV is the de facto standard for embedded web video and interactive content. Apple is pissed about about the transport, not the end user experience. Anything they say otherwise is pure ********.

Steve wants a way to manage the transportation of content to iPhones and whatever. That is all this was ever was about.