Steve Jobs Posts 'Thoughts on Flash' Open Letter

[HobeSoundDarryl]

The problem is I don't think big-media sees it as a small percentage of devices... The ultraportable computing platform (read: smartphones) is currently exploding - with lots of room to grow... Browsing the internet on your phone, in lieu of your desktop, is becoming the standard... Many people who can't afford computers rely on their phones for internet connections. Apple is trying to get its way while it is perceived as the leader.

I can appreciate this feedback. Big media is interested in iDevice media exposure in spite of its relatively small slice of worldwide Internet access share. But big media has the money to chase customers in niche share spaces like this. So they'll spend the money to create the HTML5, etc variation if that's what it takes to also get their message in front of iDevice users. It's all the rest of the players that lack those deep pockets who will go with the majority (Flash) instead of pay up to also cover the HTML5 minority (for now).

I also feel like where there is an obvious need, an enterprising person or persons will develop a killer HTML5 design studio and will do it quickly...

I appreciate that concept too. But it's been more than 3 years now that iDevices have been Flash-forbidden. Where are those design studio tools? There are many great multimedia solutions that render user created media as Interactive Flash- particularly in the e-learning space. As far as I know, none of those platforms have switched their output options to include an HTML5 + h.264 + javascript option yet. Going from Flash video to h.264 is a relatively piece of cake. But covering Flash functionality is not as easy, as evidenced by the great market need still being mostly unfulfilled by the tools typically used for these purposes.

There are programmers capable of migrating Interactive Flash to HTML5 + h.264 + javascript, but they cost what programmers cost, and the benefit is such that the result only plays in Safari & Chrome. So if a company wants some web media development right now, the choice is still to do it in Flash- the result of which will play on about 97% of the worlds computers, but not the iDevices... or do it in Flash AND HTML5, etc potentially doubling the work and programming cost.

I think HTML5 + h.264 + javascript has great potential years from now. Once it dominates, the development math makes a lot more sense. But right now- and for what appears to be at least several more years- the bang for the buck for the non-big-media players is still to do this kind of stuff in Flash. Sure they want to work on iDevices too, but they can't choose to dump Flash and embrace ONLY HTML5+, because then the audience that could see their media drops from 97% to about 8%. That reality won't change overnight, or in many months, and probably not for several more years. Apple should bend on this stance and provide the OPTION to cover the present for those that want it.

 

[greenmeanie]

So he is mad because they are closed and proprietary?
Isn't that was he does with his company too? Boo Hoo.

ModNote: Let's please keep one thread on this topic, for discussion amongst iPhone, iPod, and iPad users as well as any other interested parties. Thanks. --mkrishnan

Hello, I did a forum search and then had a look manually and I couldn't see this anywhere: http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

Some interesting things brought up, interesting even if it is just because it's a statement from Steve Himself... apparently!

I was just wandering what iPad owners thought about it, being in the UK I am still waiting for launch so I can't really chime in properly on the whole No Flash on iPad debate yet.

 

[WilliamLondon]

with ANDROID gaining ground on the iPhone now.

Gaining ground on the iPhone? Nipping at their heels, eh?

BTW, how is that released version of Flash on the Android?

 

[BaldiMac]

So he is mad because they are closed and proprietary?
Isn't that was he does with his company too? Boo Hoo.

Where did he claim to be mad because they are closed and proprietary? He just said that that is one of many reasons that they do not choose to support Flash on iPhone OS devices.

 

[firewood]

Well, it looks like Flash will never come to the iPhone OS now. Interesting points, but I still wish we could use Flash...

You can. Get a VNC or RDP app for your iPad/iPhone (there are dozens). Connect back to your Mac, PC, or even a virtual machine in the cloud running a browser with a Flash plug-in. Works fairly well for Flash games and advertisements, if not for videos.

 

[chris200x9]

The part I bolded is incorrect.

• There is no viable alternative that even comes close performance wise.
  

This is why I'm really hoping apple ditches h.264 and mozzila theora when google open sources vp8 (which is expected). The vp8 codec blows even h.264 out of the water, not to mention theora.

http://www.digital-digest.com/news-61385-On2-Video-Codec-VS-H264.html

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

It was not fine a year before the app store even existed. It was not fine 3 years before they decided to enter the mobile advertising business.

Sorry, let me clarify. Adobe Flash was not called out by Apple like Apple has been doing recently. Apple & Adobe were apparently good friends until suddenly Apple decided that Flash was bad and said so in public. Then, the fans jumped in and agreed... to a level where some post "Adobe is dead", "kill Adobe" and so forth. Where was this "flash is bad" from Apple in 2000, 2003, 2005? Did Flash just suddenly become bad in Apple's eyes just ahead of the iPhone launch?

 

[WilliamLondon]

To me the iPad is the equivalent of a defective product.

By your logic I can equally claim that tampons are a defective product, but I wouldn't be so silly to go on a tampon forum and claim how defective tampons are and how people who buy them are stupid.

Horses for courses.

And in this case, the numbers are quite high and growing. Doesn't make iPad users right, just makes them happy in large numbers.

Also, doesn't preclude people from trying to take their joy and happiness away for some unknown reason.

 

[Compile 'em all]

Flash is flash. It was fine by Apple for a very long time, then suddenly it was not fine.

It wasn't fine when they actually had to create a device that doesn't have disposable resources: The iPhone. That is when Apple realized that the **** that is Flash just won't cut it.

As simple as that.

 

[MacFly123]

WWDC 2010 is looking like a mobile only party.

Do games on Steam count?

Indeed, there are only awards for mobile apps, no longer best mac app!

When Steve was at D5 with Walt, Walt asked Steve if they were still committed to the Mac being that they make iPod, iPhone, etc. Steve emphatically replied, YES, ABSOLUTELY and so on. He said they LOVE the Mac and they use all Macs at Apple headquarters. Apple will continue to make Macs, what would they use to create all these products and work on at their offices if they didn't? PCs? Haha Yes they will be changing the definition of computing with mobile devices and so on, but they will still be making computers! These other devices expand the market for the Mac! You can look it up on all things Ds site or on YouTube, I don't have the time to find it.

 

[michaelso]

perhaps, we should consider joining this:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Im-With-Apple/101098169933711?ref=ts

 

[MacFly123]

Seems the Reality Distortion Field is fully operational once more, because I didn't see any gaping logical holes or counter arguments crying out to be made.

I did sense a little bit of 'don't dumb down our apps to be the same on android' competition in his tone, but pretty easily justified by suggesting it's for the benefit of Apple, developers and consumers.

I wonder what's the best way to hear an informed counter-argument. Might go back to slashdot after a 5 year break to see what the haters have to say

You know what is interesting to me? All the people who mention Steve's "reality distortion field" could combine and never be as powerful, influential, and successful as he is! Must have something going right up in that consciousness of his!!! Something to think about!

 

[Hawkeye411]

I think I see an Android smartphone and an Android tablet PC in my future (in the next year).

Controlling our content ..... controlling our web experience ..... controlling the ads on iAd ..... enough is enough Mr Jobs!!

 

[BaldiMac]

Sorry, let me clarify. Adobe Flash was not called out by Apple like Apple has been doing recently. Apple & Adobe were apparently good friends until suddenly Apple decided that Flash was bad and said so in public. Then, the fans jumped in and agreed... to a level where some post "Adobe is dead", "kill Adobe" and so forth. Where was this "flash is bad" from Apple in 2000, 2003, 2005? Did Flash just suddenly become bad in Apple's eyes just ahead of the iPhone launch?

We should separate fan opinions, Apple's public statements, and Apple's view of Flash.

As far as fans, there have been people that hate Flash for years. The Flashblock addon for Firefox was started in 2004 (or earlier if there were other incarnations). Apple's decision to not allow Flash on iPhone OS devices is simply a rallying point. The first chance to make a real impact. And of course there are fanboys that hyperbolize in both directions.

Publicly, Apple has made very few statements about Flash. There was the keynote where Serlet(?) mentioned that Flash was the top crasher on OS X. And there was this letter. Anything else? Adobe was the one who took it up a level publicly with "Screw You Apple." I suppose there was also Jobs' comments from the company meeting, but that was not public.

Behind the scenes, I'm sure that Apple has been pissed at Adobe for years. Well before the iPhone OS. Flash has always been poor compared to the Windows version. It is OS X's top crasher. Adobe was notoriously slow to move to OS X, and is slow to adopt knew features. Not to mention that Apple did not really have a choice on whether to allow Flash on OS X based on the established open development environment.

 

[50548]

Thank you, SJ, for putting the FINAL NAIL in ungrateful Adobe's coffin. AND **** FLASH!

ADOBE IS DEAD. AND I COULDN'T CARE LESS.

 

[BaldiMac]

Controlling our content .....

Are you referring to the DRM that is required by the content providers? Well, except for where they fought to remove DRM for music.

controlling our web experience .....

By insisting on open standards rather than closed, proprietary ones!

controlling the ads on iAd .....

As opposed to what? Doesn't an ad provider always control the ads it provides? Do you not realize that developer are not required to use iAd? They can use any ad provider that they want.

enough is enough Mr Jobs!!

 

[iObama]

A Consumer's Thoughts on "Thoughts on Flash."

I just sent this e-mail to Steve Jobs. I'm sick and tired of this Apple vs. Adobe thing. As a consumer who uses Flash while admittedly wishing it was more stable, it makes me very mad that I don't have choices because of Steve Jobs' ego. I understand that a great deal of you disagree with me, but I just felt the need to post this.

The letter:

"Hello, Mr. Jobs:

Stop lying to the public. You don't want Flash on iDevices because of business decisions. If you feel that Flash isn't battery efficient, don't use it. But don't prevent other people from using it because of your selfish decisions. You're really biting the hand that feeds you here. Without the Creative Suite and Flash player on OS X, there would BE no OS X. Your elitist attitude is good for your ego and bad for consumers. Consumers want choice, not choices made FOR them by egomaniacs like yourself.

You REALLY want to call out Adobe for being "closed," while you reject apps from the App Store simply because you're afraid of consumers choosing someone else's product over yours? REALLY, Mr. Jobs? I, and MANY other people, have lost a LOT of respect for Apple over this Adobe fiasco.

It pains me to write this letter because I love Apple. However, after your recent tantrums regarding Flash, I would have to laugh if Adobe ceased to develop Creative Suite and Flash for the Mac and your computer division and marketshare completely collapsed. It would be well-deserved, frankly.

Sincerely,

(My name)"

 

[miles01110]

Oh good, because Flash on the iP* hasn't been discussed enough already.

 

[dejo]

I just sent this e-mail to Steve Jobs. I'm sick and tired of this Apple vs. Adobe thing. As a consumer who uses Flash while admittedly wishing it was more stable, it makes me very mad that I don't have choices because of Steve Jobs' ego. I understand that a great deal of you disagree with me, but I just felt the need to post this.

The letter:

"Hello, Mr. Jobs:

Stop lying to the public. You don't want Flash on iDevices because of business decisions. If you feel that Flash isn't battery efficient, don't use it. But don't prevent other people from using it because of your selfish decisions. You're really biting the hand that feeds you here. Without the Creative Suite and Flash player on OS X, there would BE no OS X. Your elitist attitude is good for your ego and bad for consumers. Consumers want choice, not choices made FOR them by egomaniacs like yourself.

You REALLY want to call out Adobe for being "closed," while you reject apps from the App Store simply because you're afraid of consumers choosing someone else's product over yours? REALLY, Mr. Jobs? I, and MANY other people, have lost a LOT of respect for Apple over this Adobe fiasco.

It pains me to write this letter because I love Apple. However, after your recent tantrums regarding Flash, I would have to laugh if Adobe ceased to develop Creative Suite and Flash for the Mac and your computer division and marketshare completely collapsed. It would be well-deserved, frankly.

Sincerely,

(My name)"

If you had written a response that was cogent and didn't sound like the rantings of a child, you may have actually got his attention. For reference on how to do that, please see Steve's original letter.

 

[tbrinkma]

the answer is simply that HTML5 isn't a replacement for Flash. for example, THIS is not possible with HTML5.

Care to tell us exactly what in that site couldn't have been done with HTML 4, much less HTML 5? I've been poking at it for a few minutes now and I haven't seen anything yet.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

FIf anything, this encourages Flash developers to learn how to develop instead of lazily converting their apps with no optimization.

 

[iObama]

If you had written a response that was cogent and didn't sound like the rantings of a child, you may have actually got his attention. For reference on how to do that, please see Steve's original letter.

I'm sorry that I don't feel like kowtowing to his massive ego. As you may be able to tell, I'm very frustrated by this whole thing, and it won't help anyone in the end.

 

[iObama]

Oh good, because Flash on the iP* hasn't been discussed enough already.

1) You have way too much time on your hands.
2) Notice that every single one of those links were news links, not user-instigated topics.

 

[msheredy]

It's funny

I'm pretty sure Steve is of a democratic background, hanging out with Gore and all, but I find his logic refreshing in that his goal in business is to please their customers. He knows that it is us who he needs to make happy. Quite a different feeling that we're getting from the GOV lately.

 

[[DL]]

Well said, Mr. Jobs, well said.