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Being a CEO shouldn't preclude you from being a nice person. I never asked him to be my friend. But I sure as hell wouldn't have worked for him. Leading by intimidation/terror isn't the type of leader I'd want to associate with. But, I guess if that makes him someone's hero, more power to them.

I don't know about you, but the teachers I had in school who didn't let my mistakes slide and pushed me to always do more are the ones who taught me the most, not the teachers who were nice and easy to deal with. Some people can deal with that and other people can't. The people who can't deal with being pushed and criticized to be better don't go very far in the world. And that's a choice everyone makes. Besides that, smart people who speak plainly and don't couch everything in platitudes are always seen as being arrogant or superior by people who need to have any criticism surrounded by fake hearts and flowers so their feelings don't get hurt.
 
Being a CEO shouldn't preclude you from being a nice person. I never asked him to be my friend. But I sure as hell wouldn't have worked for him. Leading by intimidation/terror isn't the type of leader I'd want to associate with. But, I guess if that makes him someone's hero, more power to them.

Exactly and him leading by "intimidation/terror" is why he employed so many thousands of people. That's nice that you chose not to have worked for him (especially in a world where employment outside of slinging burgers is tough to get even for post graduates) but he's made it possible for MANY MANY MANY people employed by him to buy beautiful homes, pay their rent on time, buy food for their families, pay their gas & electric and have a decent car. You know, LIVING.

90% of the people working for Apple never interacted with him. Usually only the top execs and people higher up dealt with him directly. I know first hand because my cousin is a QA engineer at Apple and has been there for over 10 years and hardly ever had a direct conversation with Steve Jobs. The times he saw him (which was often) he wasn't walking around intimidating people.
 
it's completely insane that anyone anywhere could have any inkling of thought that this suit is logical or ethical in any sense whatsoever...
 
Being a CEO shouldn't preclude you from being a nice person. I never asked him to be my friend. But I sure as hell wouldn't have worked for him. Leading by intimidation/terror isn't the type of leader I'd want to associate with. But, I guess if that makes him someone's hero, more power to them.

So you've worked with Steve Jobs before? Then how do you know exactly what it was like to work for him? There's a reason all those brilliantly talented employees who worked for him decided to do so. Not just work a 9-5, but give him their entire lives for months at a time. There's a reason all those incredibly smart people who would have been capable of running their own company, respected him. You don't get that kind of respect from highly intelligent people for nothing. Certainly not by terrorizing them. He got that kind of respect from people because he gave that kind of respect to people's abilities in return. Jobs threw temper tantrums, but he didn't work you like a terrorizing slave master. He gave employees the freedom to disagree with him right to his face, and actually encouraged it. Also gave them more creative freedom than most companies that size. Probably even more creative freedom than the current Apple, which is led by the nice guy Tim Cook. So it's not like Jobs was some despicable scumbag who was terrible to work for. His two companies wouldn't have become two of the most iconic in the world if that were the case.
 
A hacker is generally looked at as an amateur. A company acting as a hacker is completely unprofessional and disingenuous - he's holding it up to the standard that Apple has to be compared to, not himself in his teenage years...not that he ever tried to sell anything he hacked.


Not sure what your last comment means. Pretty sure he and Woz sold their black boxes, no?
 
I think it was less snarky and more arrogant and self-righteous.

Sorry, he may have been a consumer visionary and possibly a genius, but a nice guy he was not. He was just as ruthless as any other corporate figure who would be vilified for similar tactics.

He just called it like it was. Something most of us are afraid to do cos we're generally not in a position to speak our minds that freely.
 
Wow Steve was a bigger liar and a thief than I had previously heard and read. It's amazes me how such an outright horrible person could be so idolized and worshiped like a god.
 
I love Snarky Deponents

They have enabled me to settle cases for the other side on most excellent terms.:cool:
 
Ok, everyone wins. Steve was a saint. Doesn't matter to me. I should have known where I was posting an opinion.
 
Wow, I *really* don't miss RealPlayer. That was one of most annoying, ad-ridden pieces of crap in the world.
 
I think it was less snarky and more arrogant and self-righteous.

Sorry, he may have been a consumer visionary and possibly a genius, but a nice guy he was not. He was just as ruthless as any other corporate figure who would be vilified for similar tactics.

So, in your world, "snarky" is the same as "nice guy"?

DOES ANYONE HERE OWN A FLIPPIN' DICTIONARY?!
 
There's few people who continue to have so much personality after they're dead.
Few people are so full of themselves. Some in the medical community suggest he may have lived longer by spewing less venom.

Apparently he valued power, being feared, intimidation and money, no matter how toxic, as the stuff of his dreams. In that context he was ultra successful.

Whatever floats your boat. :)
 
I'm going to file a lawsuit against Android devices because I'm 'locked in' to the Android ecosystem and cannot use iOS applications.

sigh.

And I'm going to file a lawsuit against McDonald's because I can't bring my KFC in to McDonald's and sit down and eat. "Locked in" to eating McDonald's at a McDonald's.
 
The trouble is when they lead you to answer that way knowing their next and further on questions will reveal you do know but are deliberately saying "I don't know., I don't recall., and I don't remember."

Lawyers can be smart and they know the judge is looking for the same thing. Dont always expect your being clever and getting away with something.

I don't know. ;) You may be right. I'm not an attorney. :)
 
I want to hear what Jobs said about this stupid lawsuit. Probably something satisfying.

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He didn't have to be a nice guy. He was heading off a major corporation in a business where the tech world is dog eat dog. His ruthless, arrogance and self-righteousness brought a company that was about to close up shop to the most valuable company worldwide.

I have no idea why people here expected a Steve Jobs (A CEO) to be nice guy. They act as if he was suppose to be the MR member's friend.

Well, a lot of people consider Bill Gates a nice guy.

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Wow, I *really* don't miss RealPlayer. That was one of most annoying, ad-ridden pieces of crap in the world.

Yeah, I think of it as the Internet Explorer 6 of media players.
 
Here is what the case ultimately revolves around:

At the time, iPods could play music that was either DRM Free, such as that purchased at Brick and Mortar Stores or Online Retailers via CD, MP3s, or DRM Protected Music using Apple's FairPlay encryption.

The RIAA did not like Online Retailers selling DRM Free Music at the time, for piracy concerns.

RealNetworks opened an Online Store to sell Music specifically to iPod customers that was encrypted using FairPlay encryption.

One of two scenarios took place here.

Either RealNetworks engaged in industrial espionage and stole FairPlay from Apple, thereby engaging in copyright violation, or they identified a weakness within the cryptographic scheme that allowed for RealNetworks to gain the Private Key of the Encryption Scheme, thereby letting them encrypt and decrypt data at will. Either scenario is bad because it means that Apple is in violation of their legal agreements as they are no longer in possession of their cryptographic keys, and thereby third parties can encrypt and decrypt content at will either to masquerading as Apple or to provide DRM Free Content Electronically.

Regardless of how it happened, to protect Apple's business interest and their contracts with RIAA Member Companies, they elected to change FairPlay and issue an update to iPods to address the vulnerability of the FairPlay Encryption Algorithm. As a byproduct, RealNetworks was prevented from continuing to operate their competing business of Online Sales of exclusively FairPlay DRM Protected Music to iPod Users who were running the most recent firmware.

Because RealNetworks was prevented from engaging in their business as they were previously, they sued Apple for "fixing" the vulnerability within FairPlay, regardless of how the issue ultimately came about, specifically citing lost business opportunities.

This is effectively no different than the Shellshock, Heartbleed, or other cryptographic vulnerabilities that have been going around as of late. The fact that a business exploited these circumstances to make money should ultimately be irrelevant.

RealNetworks *could* have licensed the technology for the encryption scheme as any other company is expected to do with regards to intellectual property, or as RealNetworks themselves expected Apple to do relative to various video technologies over the years, or engaged in a business relationship as Audible had done for Audio Books using their Audible Audio Encryption technology to bring an additional vendor to the iPod. Real Networks did none of these things. They engaged in either industrial espionage or exploited a cryptographic flaw and then sought a payday when they were ultimately excluded from the market.
 
I'm going to file a lawsuit against Android devices because I'm 'locked in' to the Android ecosystem and cannot use iOS applications.

sigh.

Nailed it....this is the worst type of lawsuit...the stupid as a brick consumer who does no research and buys into an ecosystem and THEN figures out the limitations.

It all started with that stupid woman who spilled hot coffee on herself and sued (coffee too hot) the restaurant who served it and WON....all downhill since then (but a LOT more fast buck lawyers catering to a never-ending supply of whiney idiots).

Common sense in full retreat!!!
 
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Tort reform would end all of this waste of time. Lawyers would lose incentive to create a stink out of nothing.

THANK YOU! :D

No truer words have ever been spoken.

In most of the world these lawsuits would be thrown out of court on day 1.

TORT REFORM. LOSER PAYS LEGAL COSTS! END OF STORY.

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Here is what the case ultimately revolves around:

At the time, iPods could play music that was either DRM Free, such as that purchased at Brick and Mortar Stores or Online Retailers via CD, MP3s, or DRM Protected Music using Apple's FairPlay encryption.

The RIAA did not like Online Retailers selling DRM Free Music at the time, for piracy concerns.

RealNetworks opened an Online Store to sell Music specifically to iPod customers that was encrypted using FairPlay encryption.

One of two scenarios took place here.

Either RealNetworks engaged in industrial espionage and stole FairPlay from Apple, thereby engaging in copyright violation, or they identified a weakness within the cryptographic scheme that allowed for RealNetworks to gain the Private Key of the Encryption Scheme, thereby letting them encrypt and decrypt data at will. Either scenario is bad because it means that Apple is in violation of their legal agreements as they are no longer in possession of their cryptographic keys, and thereby third parties can encrypt and decrypt content at will either to masquerading as Apple or to provide DRM Free Content Electronically.

Regardless of how it happened, to protect Apple's business interest and their contracts with RIAA Member Companies, they elected to change FairPlay and issue an update to iPods to address the vulnerability of the FairPlay Encryption Algorithm. As a byproduct, RealNetworks was prevented from continuing to operate their competing business of Online Sales of exclusively FairPlay DRM Protected Music to iPod Users who were running the most recent firmware.

Because RealNetworks was prevented from engaging in their business as they were previously, they sued Apple for "fixing" the vulnerability within FairPlay, regardless of how the issue ultimately came about, specifically citing lost business opportunities.

This is effectively no different than the Shellshock, Heartbleed, or other cryptographic vulnerabilities that have been going around as of late. The fact that a business exploited these circumstances to make money should ultimately be irrelevant.

RealNetworks *could* have licensed the technology for the encryption scheme as any other company is expected to do with regards to intellectual property, or as RealNetworks themselves expected Apple to do relative to various video technologies over the years, or engaged in a business relationship as Audible had done for Audio Books using their Audible Audio Encryption technology to bring an additional vendor to the iPod. Real Networks did none of these things. They engaged in either industrial espionage or exploited a cryptographic flaw and then sought a payday when they were ultimately excluded from the market.

You missed ONE important point. Apple consistently REFUSED to license FairPlay to anyone. But I still think the case is a joke regardless.

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Was just thinking about this. Might there be another implication here though? I still have music I bought long ago on another computer that is FairPlay encrypted that I can't play on my current Mac even though I paid for it.

Should I have to pay a 2nd time for that music? It's only 3 songs, but still, I paid for them and can't play them on any device. This lawsuit presumably would affect that too.
 
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