Steve Jobs' Snarky Testimony Takes Center Stage in iPod Class-Action Lawsuit Opening

[projectle]

You missed ONE important point. Apple consistently REFUSED to license FairPlay to anyone. But I still think the case is a joke regardless.

A refusal to license for terms that they want to pay isn't the same thing as a refusal to license.

For example:
Let's say you had a hypothetical discussion that went like this:
"I'll give you a ham and cheese sandwich, and you give me your house?"
"Are you high?"
"Okay, okay... what about you just give me your car instead?"
"No."
"Fine, an evening with your wife and her sister, but only if she can *really* pretend that she's into it."
"Get out."

For what it's worth, Apple *did* reach an agreement with Audible.

We do seem to agree though that the case is largely a joke and a waste of the court's time.

 

[FlatlinerG]

Two of the worst analogies on this forum yet. Congratulations!

They were being snarky

Let the baby have his candy.

 

[Lancer]

This is a stupid law suit, can I sue Mitsubishi because I can't use diesel in my car? Apple made an ecosystem and people buying the iPod knew they needed to use iTunes or rip CDs to get their music on it.

 

[Windlasher]

IN WHAT WORLD, are you obligated to make your software/hardware compatible with everyone else’s crappy software? Real Networks was an Fing nightmare no matter how you look at it. Maybe they should have invented better software instead of trying to ride on top of someone else success.

 

[SHirsch999]

Just back in my time machine from late 2015 where I copied this headline from macrumors



The article went onto say Apple seem happy with the outcome though its not the one they wanted (they wanted to win win not just win). The class action people are happy because they bought iPods anyway so iTunes vouchers gives them something to use. The lawyers were taken out back and shot due to a change in law that sees lawyers who bring silly cases and loose also pay with their lives. As you can imagine there are very few law suits in late 2015. Apple still rocks and I have brought back the latest apple watch which I used to post this.

Wow! I hope that's not the headline, because if it is whoever wrote it should be fired for being a lousy speller.

 

[samcraig]

Let the baby have his candy.

I honestly read your original post too quickly and didn't see you were replying to another analogy. So I apologize

 

[macs4nw]

And your behaviour in a room full of hostile self-serving scumbag lawyers would have been?...
He didn't suffer fools and he spoke up when the rest of us keep our mouths shut because he had the power to.

He didn't have to be a nice guy. He was heading off a major corporation in a business where the tech world is dog eat dog. His ruthless, arrogance and self-righteousness brought a company that was about to close up shop to the most valuable company worldwide.
I have no idea why people here expected a Steve Jobs (A CEO) to be nice guy. They act as if he was suppose to be the MR member's friend.

Thank you both for injecting a little objectivity into what seems to be a fairly lop-sided and somewhat hypocritical 'Steve-bashing' tone of response to this article.

Anyone who's ever successfully run a company can tell you that a CEO's conduct can't all be goody goody and apple-pie, no pun intended. In the 21st century, more than ever before, businesses are operating ruthlessly to get to the top, and subsequently to try to stay there.

In light of that, Apple has done an admirable, and indeed a phenomenal job to get to where they are today, from where they were in the mid-to-late nineties while at the dawn of their (almost) demise, just before SJ's return, and Steve, his hand-picked and groomed successor Tim, as well as the entire executive team deserve credit for this, rather than the on-and-off back stabbing they seem to get here with predictable regularity from some quarters.

When it comes to their business ethics and respect for their customers, Apple's business dealings speak for themselves, and I would suggest, are in a class by themselves, and personally I wish more companies would take a cue from this.

 

[JeffyTheQuik]

THANK YOU!



Was just thinking about this. Might there be another implication here though? I still have music I bought long ago on another computer that is FairPlay encrypted that I can't play on my current Mac even though I paid for it.

Should I have to pay a 2nd time for that music? It's only 3 songs, but still, I paid for them and can't play them on any device. This lawsuit presumably would affect that too.

I was thinking... I have Bob & Doug's Great White North Album (it was vinyl) and I left it on the dashboard. Can I freely download it and play it on one device, or am I hosed? I did pay for a license to listen to it at will, and leaving it on the dashboard in a closed car in Phoenix doesn't void my license, does it?

 

[axual]

real networks was just trying to "blue box" apple's ipod...
/
/
/

yep

 

[Windlasher]

I don't know about you, but the teachers I had in school who didn't let my mistakes slide and pushed me to always do more are the ones who taught me the most, not the teachers who were nice and easy to deal with. Some people can deal with that and other people can't. The people who can't deal with being pushed and criticized to be better don't go very far in the world. And that's a choice everyone makes. Besides that, smart people who speak plainly and don't couch everything in platitudes are always seen as being arrogant or superior by people who need to have any criticism surrounded by fake hearts and flowers so their feelings don't get hurt.

Agreed. I learned more from people who were hard on me, but fair. I don't think Jobs was a dictator. I think he asked you to do a job and then EXPECTED you to do that job. The same way ANY real boss would do. So many people feel like the world owes them a job and then they do it poorly and complain.

GTE anyone? Did GTE at any point say to Apple, Hey we've never actually done this before... or did they say yep, grab the check and run with the cash?

If RN wins this, you can expect a whole crap load of lawsuits to follow based on precedent accusing FORD for not make parts that fit their GMC. If RN loses, they will be out of business very quickly.

I really don't see how any logical person would find for them in a court of law. If I were on that Jury, I would tell RN that they should have built their own device and software and negotiated their own deals with the record companies rather than expecting Apple to do it for them.

 

[JAT]

He said, "a nice guy he was not"

Yeah, equating with the word snarky in the OP. Schools are obviously crap today.

 

[HyperZboy]

I was thinking... I have Bob & Doug's Great White North Album (it was vinyl) and I left it on the dashboard. Can I freely download it and play it on one device, or am I hosed? I did pay for a license to listen to it at will, and leaving it on the dashboard in a closed car in Phoenix doesn't void my license, does it?

Stereotypical Fanboy snarky comment on this site which completely missed my point.

Why doesn't Apple allow people that purchased FairPlay songs long ago to remove the DRM from those tracks now that FairPlay is no longer used? Seems like a very simple thing to do in my mind. It's not like the music wouldn't otherwise play fine on any Mac. There nothing new about iTunes that should prevent it from playing except FairPlay. I hope this case impacts that issue.

Compatibility is a different issue than a deliberate DRM action.

 

[JeffyTheQuik]

Stereotypical Fanboy snarky comment on this site which completely missed my point.

Why doesn't Apple allow people that purchased FairPlay songs long ago to remove the DRM from those tracks now that FairPlay is no longer used? Seems like a very simple thing to do in my mind. It's not like the music wouldn't otherwise play fine on any Mac. There nothing new about iTunes that should prevent it from playing except FairPlay. I hope this case impacts that issue.

Compatibility is a different issue than a deliberate DRM action.

Actually, I was quite serious. I know that when I buy an album, I buy the license to use the music/whatever is on it for personal use, and the media is the delivery method. I can't use it in my bar, restaurant, or dance club (Bob & Doug were popular at Studio 54, I hear... that was snark.).

So, what I was saying, and I am sorry if you saw it as snark against you, is that I already purchased the license, and I should be able to listen to the content of that media on any device that will play it, or I can transfer the listening format (cassette, 8 track, computer), as long as I treat it like the original media, i.e. I can only listen to it on one device at a time. If the original media is destroyed (which is why I thought that record burning was an odd protest method in the 60's and 70's), is my right to enjoy the content of that media destroyed as well? I think not.

As for your statement about FairPlay, I'm kind of split on that. Does iTunes have to support every media format or DRM encryption out there? It would be one thing if Apple refused to allow FairPlay formats on a Mac... well, no, it wouldn't, because there are other computer O/S out there that can be installed on a Mac, plus, there are other computing architectures. As for "it needs to play on my Mac, and Apple shooting it down (I'm venturing into the theoretical here), then the consumer has the choice to buy Apple or not.

 

[Analog Kid]

When he did answer questions, Jobs painted Apple as a company being held hostage by the major music labels, which required digital rights management (DRM) on iTunes music as part of their contract terms. Apple claimed it had to repeatedly update iTunes to patch holes in its DRM or risk forfeiting these contracts.

I remember those days... Almost hard to believe we made to the world we're in now. Still over priced for downloads, but at least I worry less about having my access turned off...

----------

I have Bob & Doug's Great White North Album [...] am I hosed?

Nice tie in!

 

[HyperZboy]

Actually, I was quite serious. I know that when I buy an album, I buy the license to use the music/whatever is on it for personal use, and the media is the delivery method. I can't use it in my bar, restaurant, or dance club (Bob & Doug were popular at Studio 54, I hear... that was snark.).

So, what I was saying, and I am sorry if you saw it as snark against you, is that I already purchased the license, and I should be able to listen to the content of that media on any device that will play it, or I can transfer the listening format (cassette, 8 track, computer), as long as I treat it like the original media, i.e. I can only listen to it on one device at a time. If the original media is destroyed (which is why I thought that record burning was an odd protest method in the 60's and 70's), is my right to enjoy the content of that media destroyed as well? I think not.

As for your statement about FairPlay, I'm kind of split on that. Does iTunes have to support every media format or DRM encryption out there? It would be one thing if Apple refused to allow FairPlay formats on a Mac... well, no, it wouldn't, because there are other computer O/S out there that can be installed on a Mac, plus, there are other computing architectures. As for "it needs to play on my Mac, and Apple shooting it down (I'm venturing into the theoretical here), then the consumer has the choice to buy Apple or not.

I'll use your own logic against you then. If I buy an album/LP, I expect it will play on my next turntable and the one after, and the one after that! If I buy food, I expect it will stay cold in my next refrigerator.

The fact that I bought a new Mac shouldn't disable my ability to play the music I purchased and paid for. It's just that simple

Apple should simply release a simple tool to remove the DRM if the DRM is shown as a real purchase. How hard is that to do?

I mean I don't really miss that Stevie Nicks song and will live without it, but hell, I paid for it! I don't remember if it was bought on a gift card or who the hell knows what. I have a valid iTunes account. It should play dammit!

WHY CAN'T APPLE FIX THIS?

 

[cjmillsnun]

I'll use your own logic against you then. If I buy an album/LP, I expect it will play on my next turntable and the one after, and the one after that! If I buy food, I expect it will stay cold in my next refrigerator.

The fact that I bought a new Mac shouldn't disable my ability to play the music I purchased and paid for. It's just that simple

Apple should simply release a simple tool to remove the DRM if the DRM is shown as a real purchase. How hard is that to do?

I mean I don't really miss that Stevie Nicks song and will live without it, but hell, I paid for it! I don't remember if it was bought on a gift card or who the hell knows what. I have a valid iTunes account. It should play dammit!

WHY CAN'T APPLE FIX THIS?

Deauthorise all computers then reauthorise the ones you're actually using, including the new one. It will work. You can authorise up to 5 PCs or Macs to play FairPlay DRM'd music at any one time.

 

[iososx]

By nature the rather polarizing Apple when led by Steve attracted Snark.

Conversely Tim Cook has not only been successful, he's brought professionalism back.

 

[JeffyTheQuik]

I'll use your own logic against you then. If I buy an album/LP, I expect it will play on my next turntable and the one after, and the one after that! If I buy food, I expect it will stay cold in my next refrigerator.

The fact that I bought a new Mac shouldn't disable my ability to play the music I purchased and paid for. It's just that simple

I think we're in agreement here.

Apple should simply release a simple tool to remove the DRM if the DRM is shown as a real purchase. How hard is that to do?

They do sell DRM free music (MP3 for 30 cents more) now on iTunes, so, unless there are contractual reasons why they can't do this, I have no problem.

I mean I don't really miss that Stevie Nicks song and will live without it, but hell, I paid for it! I don't remember if it was bought on a gift card or who the hell knows what. I have a valid iTunes account. It should play dammit!

WHY CAN'T APPLE FIX THIS?

The original Declaration of Independence (ok, one of the drafts) had Life Liberty, and Property in it. You bought the rights, so you should have the rights, and be able to use it on whatever device you choose, as long as you can get it on that device, be it by ripping it, hooking your LP player to your Mac, or whatever.

I guess we do agree, just coming at it from different points of view.

 

[HyperZboy]

Deauthorise all computers then reauthorise the ones you're actually using, including the new one. It will work. You can authorise up to 5 PCs or Macs to play FairPlay DRM'd music at any one time.

That solution won't work for 2 reasons. FairPlay limits you to so many authorizations first off. And limits reauthorizations to so many a year. If you no longer have the Mac you've authorized it stays authorized even if its in a junkyard. There's no legit way to de-authorize it.

#2 some songs were bought not on my current Apple ID. I don't even have the info anymore it's been so long.

If I bought an LP or CD, it would play on any turntable or player I buy in the future. Not so with FairPlay music.

I think I have 2 Macs either given away to a relative or thrown out that are authorized to play songs I can't play. I guess you could say that's my fault for not de-authorizing them, but c'mon, seriously?

This in a nutshell is why I hope Apple somehow loses or has to settle the FairPlay issue.

Steve Jobs testimony is a moot point. None of the record label issues he cites are an issue anymore. Apple should just provide a simple tool to unlock FairPlay songs of DRM and call it a day instead of wasting all this money on these sleazy lawyers.

 

[cjmillsnun]

That solution won't work for 2 reasons. FairPlay limits you to so many authorizations first off. And limits reauthorizations to so many a year. If you no longer have the Mac you've authorized it stays authorized even if its in a junkyard. There's no legit way to de-authorize it.

#2 some songs were bought not on my current Apple ID. I don't even have the info anymore it's been so long.

If I bought an LP or CD, it would play on any turntable or player I buy in the future. Not so with FairPlay music.

I think I have 2 Macs either given away to a relative or thrown out that are authorized to play songs I can't play. I guess you could say that's my fault for not de-authorizing them, but c'mon, seriously?

This in a nutshell is why I hope Apple somehow loses or has to settle the FairPlay issue.

Steve Jobs testimony is a moot point. None of the record label issues he cites are an issue anymore. Apple should just provide a simple tool to unlock FairPlay songs of DRM and call it a day instead of wasting all this money on these sleazy lawyers.

FairPlay does not limit reauthorisations or number of reauthorisations per year (only iTunes Match does).

You can de-authorise ANY Mac/PC, although it will de-authorise all Macs/PCs and you will have to reauthorise the ones you want to use.

http://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201251

Lastly iForgot can help you with that old apple ID as can Apple themselves by phone. You can then use the Analog hole, and if you have iTunes Match, rip, and re-match the songs with iTunes plus DRM free ones on your current Apple ID

So please, lay off the FUD.

 

[HyperZboy]

FairPlay does not limit reauthorisations or number of reauthorisations per year (only iTunes Match does).

You can de-authorise ANY Mac/PC, although it will de-authorise all Macs/PCs and you will have to reauthorise the ones you want to use.

http://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201251

Lastly iForgot can help you with that old apple ID as can Apple themselves by phone. You can then use the Analog hole, and if you have iTunes Match, rip, and re-match the songs with iTunes plus DRM free ones on your current Apple ID

So please, lay off the FUD.

Yes, like I'm going to take off from work to call Apple on the phone to play 9 songs I can't play. Give me a break.

And worse yet, de-authorize all computers? Yeah right, like I'm going to do that. Next thing you know, I'll have no music.

Instead of the $350 million, most of which is going to lawyers, just release a simple decryption tool Apple and call it a day.

Let's just say, none of your solutions are elegant or convenient or worth my time for 9 songs.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Yes, like I'm going to take off from work to call Apple on the phone to play 9 songs I can't play. Give me a break.

And worse yet, de-authorize all computers? Yeah right, like I'm going to do that. Next thing you know, I'll have no music.

Instead of the $350 million, most of which is going to lawyers, just release a simple decryption tool Apple and call it a day.

How long is it going to take to re-authorise up to 5 computers? 10 minutes???

You realise that the encryption is probably specific to the user concerned so they will still need to know their password to de-encrypt.

 

[HyperZboy]

How long is it going to take to re-authorise up to 5 computers? 10 minutes???

You realise that the encryption is probably specific to the user concerned so they will still need to know their password to de-encrypt.

This is not a theft of music issue. I know I somehow purchased these songs. I just don't remember what method and it's not worth my time to investigate.

Just release a FairPlay decrypting tool.

I have a valid Apple ID

 

[laurim]

This is not a theft of music issue. I know I somehow purchased these songs. I just don't remember what method and it's not worth my time to investigate.

Just release a FairPlay decrypting tool.

I have a valid Apple ID

Sorry, something sounds fishy to me. You make it sound so onerous to just get the music you own on your computers when it's not. So that makes it sound like you want more than you are legitimately entitled to have. They can't allow people to foil FairPlay. Otherwise, what's the point in having it?

 

[HyperZboy]

Sorry, something sounds fishy to me. You make it sound so onerous to just get the music you own on your computers when it's not. So that makes it sound like you want more than you are legitimately entitled to have. They can't allow people to foil FairPlay. Otherwise, what's the point in having it?

Umm, hello! Fairplay is gone now. It's a legacy DRM that Apple has removed from all music. So why aren't they removing it for legal owners of music they can't play anymore?