Steve Jobs Still Involved in Apple, Still Expected to Return in June

[Anuba]

Your comparison is vague. Please slap up an exact model of PC your are comparing the Mac Pro to. Let's get it on the table.

Fine, I'll recycle my own personal case which I posted yesterday. Welcome to "Desktop Hunters". I'm buying a laptop and a minitower this year (I do this every 3 years and last time was in July of 2006). The MBP 17" already won me over -- on portability (you should see these 17" professional PCs... can you say "intervertebral disk displacement"?) and battery life, plus the ability to run OS X on occasion.

So chalk one sale up for Apple Store Sweden.
The Mac Pro, on the other hand... OK, here goes:

My budget for the tower is 40,000 SEK (Swedish Kronor), give or take. That's $4842, approximately. That's including sales tax (see below).

Candidate A: Mac Pro, 2.93 GHz quad (Nehalem W3540), 6 GB RAM, 2x640 GB HDD, ATI HD4870, AppleCare Protection Plan: 41,270 SEK.

(You can go to apple.se and build your own to confirm this; you may not understand the Swedish gobbledegook but you'll recognize the BTO options from the US site)

Candidate B: Dell Precision T4500, 2.93 GHz quad (Nehalem W3540), 6 GB RAM, 2x750 GB HDD, ATI FirePro V5700 512 MB, 3-year warranty w/ NBD on-site repairs: 28,546 SEK.

I'm gonna help you translate that to US dollars.

First, we remove the 25% sales tax (I'm not kidding) because I run a business so that's deductible.

That brings the Mac Pro to 33,016 SEK, and the T3500 to 22,836 SEK.

Or, in dollars:
Mac Pro = $3997
T3500 = $2764

Difference: $1233

For this difference, I can deck out the Dell with stuff like...

- 12 GB RAM
- Blu-Ray
- 1 GB ATI card

...neither of which is possible on the Mac Pro.

I should also add that I know I'll be getting 10% off on the Dell if I call the same business sales rep I ordered from the last time, though it wouldn't be fair to bring that into the objective comparison. Subjectively, it will save me around $270 though. And I will not get discounts on Macs.

Now, before you say that the Mac Pro has one more hard drive bay, or aluminium enclosure, or cable-free guts, or iLife... remember -- it's $1233 ($1500 for me).

The OS matters less, since I already have one Adobe CS license for each platform and all my other relevant apps (Cubase, Reason, various VST/VSTi plugins) shipped with both the Mac and the PC version on the same DVD. So I'm not really interested in the marvels of iLife.

Disregarding your own OS preference for a second, do you really not understand why I find it more or less impossible to justify going with the MP?

 

[KnightWRX]

Exactly. Apple will stay a closed, proprietary shop that does not play well with others.

It's worked out pretty well for Microsoft up to now .

 

[Anuba]

So let Apple release its OS to other manufacturers, Apple will go out of business and then we'll have no Mac OS, only windows.

Why would they go out of business? This isn't 1998 when the computers were all they had.

First off they have iPods, iPhones, AppleTV, iTunes Store and all the software. Steve could cease all computer manufacturing today and still be able to afford building that 24K gold, ruby encrusted palace.

Last time I checked, there are thousands of companies who live off of nothing but software sales, and doing splendidly. Apple would have those sales plus all the portable devices as well as iTunes Store, the App Store, etc.

Second, why would it diminish the value of Macs to such a degree that they lose ALL computer hardware sales? Many people will still want the real thing, the machines that were tailor made for OS X. Given the relatively high ratio of brand loyalists in the Mac camp I very much doubt they'd be looking elsewhere for the hardware... unless of course you're suggesting that prices DO matter to Mac users, despite the assurances that it's all about the priceless experience?

 

[cthielen]

I don't believe it. Was he supervising the creation of the latest iPod Shuffle?

Well yea, products are in the pipeline for at least months, the specs were all ready before he even took his leave I'm sure.

I'm not really convinced that iPod is all bad. The controls are a little less convenient for jogging, etc. but the main complaint reviewers had was "heavy headphones due to the controls being on them." What? Seriously? Like the exact same weight of controls on your iPhones that you loved so much? ********.

 

[napabar]

Fine, I'll recycle my own personal case which I posted yesterday. Welcome to "Desktop Hunters". I'm buying a laptop and a minitower this year (I do this every 3 years and last time was in July of 2006). The MBP 17" already won me over -- on portability (you should see these 17" professional PCs... can you say "intervertebral disk displacement"?) and battery life, plus the ability to run OS X on occasion.

So chalk one sale up for Apple Store Sweden.
The Mac Pro, on the other hand... OK, here goes:

My budget for the tower is 40,000 SEK (Swedish Kronor), give or take. That's $4842, approximately. That's including sales tax (see below).

Candidate A: Mac Pro, 2.93 GHz quad (Nehalem W3540), 6 GB RAM, 2x640 GB HDD, ATI HD4870, AppleCare Protection Plan: 41,270 SEK.

(You can go to apple.se and build your own to confirm this; you may not understand the Swedish gobbledegook but you'll recognize the BTO options from the US site)

Candidate B: Dell Precision T4500, 2.93 GHz quad (Nehalem W3540), 6 GB RAM, 2x750 GB HDD, ATI FirePro V5700 512 MB, 3-year warranty w/ NBD on-site repairs: 28,546 SEK.

I'm gonna help you translate that to US dollars.

First, we remove the 25% sales tax (I'm not kidding) because I run a business so that's deductible.

That brings the Mac Pro to 33,016 SEK, and the T3500 to 22,836 SEK.

Or, in dollars:
Mac Pro = $3997
T3500 = $2764

Difference: $1233

For this difference, I can deck out the Dell with stuff like...

- 12 GB RAM
- Blu-Ray
- 1 GB ATI card

...neither of which is possible on the Mac Pro.

I should also add that I know I'll be getting 10% off on the Dell if I call the same business sales rep I ordered from the last time, though it wouldn't be fair to bring that into the objective comparison. Subjectively, it will save me around $270 though. And I will not get discounts on Macs.

Now, before you say that the Mac Pro has one more hard drive bay, or aluminium enclosure, or cable-free guts, or iLife... remember -- it's $1233 ($1500 for me).

The OS matters less, since I already have one Adobe CS license for each platform and all my other relevant apps (Cubase, Reason, various VST/VSTi plugins) shipped with both the Mac and the PC version on the same DVD. So I'm not really interested in the marvels of iLife.

Disregarding your own OS preference for a second, do you really not understand why I find it more or less impossible to justify going with the MP?

I'm not here to argue what YOU personally can justify or not justify. You could be in the market for an Atari Falcon. I'm saying that for many people, the extra expense is justified. An extra hard drive bay, Firewire 800, cable free guts, superior design, ability to run Final Cut Studio, Logic Studio, Shake and yes even iLife are important. If your just looking for a file server, knock yourself out.

 

[backdraft]

Um ... Window Mobile does. There is no signing I'm aware of - but I detest that system. Nokia's S60 requires it but you can turn it off on the phone which most apps can be installed - if not hack it.

This is GREAT news for Steve Jobs' status of company interaction. However, I worry that the "invisible/imaginary/god-like syndrome" will occur when he doesn't return in June.

Personally I'd love for his first public speech presentation to feature (in Keynote) how he was able to remote into company XServes; and any major partnership deals in the works. I do hope he's been following the Microsoft onslaught and stabs at Apple computers' pricing. Again I saw Apple has to ingeniously highlight just what you pay for ... showing the world what the experience is like when you take your Mac home & unbox it; use it first day (ALL family members), use it the first week, and the first month. Show the warmth of interaction and the commadre of the community will to help you out.

I'd wager the quality of the system and the apps you take advantage from make the Mac & OS X MUCH MUCH cheaper than Windows XP or Vista or Windows Seven + purchasing Roxio/Adobe Premier + Photoshop just to get close or better than iPhoto.

I'm hoping he comes back and buys out Sun and essentially makes them Apple Enterprise. Apple needs to get ZFS working in leopard and tie that in with Sun StorageTek SANS for use with Final Cut Server + XSAN, they need native iSCSI. Xgrid + Sun Grid Engine along with Solaris Zones need to be merged into the kernel (look at Linux vserver even M$ is getting virtualization in the kernel) and no BSD chroot/jails don't compare to zones. I also wouldn't mind Apple switching from Mach to the l4.sec kernel for performance gains and merging the best parts of Solaris with OS X (Solaris scales better then OS X). Sparc engineers + PA Semi + Pagemaster would be interesting (btw Sun's top Sparc engineer is now at M$, they are up to something) Sun has a lot to offer and now that the IBM buyout fell through Apple has an opportunity to revolutionize IT and the enterprise. A buyout of Sun would get M$ trembling, Sun + Apple make a perfect fit and their technologies don't overlap so there wouldn't be any antitrust/monopoly concerns (IBM would have problems here) and no massive cuts, things would be smooth.

 

[Anuba]

I'm not here to argue what YOU personally can justify or not justify.

You asked for an exact comparison, I gave you one.

 

[napabar]

You asked for an exact comparison, I gave you one.

Of hardware specs. Not your personal dilemma.

 

[Anuba]

Of hardware specs. Not your personal dilemma.

Well you got both, and you could have chosen to address the hardware specs part. But I can see why you quickly lost interest after it turned out that the difference exceeded my "vague reference" to $1000 by $200+.

I used my personal dilemma as a backdrop because it ties in to what I was saying earlier about some Macs being so overpriced that even the people who can afford them are scratching their heads trying to justify the seemingly arbitrary markup. That's the difference between expensive and overpriced.

And to write the Precision off as a file server was a cheap shot, you know perfectly well that it's a workstation that runs all the software I listed -- some of it, such as Photoshop, even runs faster due to the fact that Adobe went 64-bit all the way with the Windows version but not the OS X version. In PCMag's review of the Mac Pro they stressed that Photoshop runs a helluvalot better in BootCamp, I don't see how that's irrelevant to graphic design pros.

 

[mikeinternet]

He's not going to let anyone else release the new iphone.

 

[kdarling]

Look at the amount of crap already out on the App Store? Many people (including folks here) complain about how bad it is. And that is for a "closed" system! And you want Apple to open it up even more?

Most people with computers actually use software that is obtainable from places other than the seller of their OS.

If you're too scared to use anything that Apple doesn't approve of, then fine. Don't.

However, a lot of people would love to have alternative browsers, email and SMS handlers, Flash and Java support, useful homescreens and themes... all of which would be officially available with an open system. Heck, Slingbox would be available right now.

As you said, we've already seen the crap that comes with a closed system.

 

[Anuba]

He's not going to let anyone else release the new iphone.

Well, it depends on what shape he is in. Unfortunately the stockholders seem to be investing in Steve, not Apple. One cough and the stock plummets.

If he's still gaunt but a little less pale and a little more peppy, the market will be cautiously reassured. If he's in really good shape and a few pounds heavier, the stock will skyrocket. If he rolls in like Stephen Hawking, pandemonium will ensue on Wall St.

 

[BTW]

I don't believe it. Was he supervising the creation of the latest iPod Shuffle?

Somehow I doubt it since that thing is so plain looking. Looks like a piece of metal just hanging on the person for no apparent reason.

 

[zedsdead]

Somehow I doubt it since that thing is so plain looking. Looks like a piece of metal just hanging on the person for no apparent reason.

Of course he did. He told the Shuffle Department "I want it smaller," and they said, "but we'll have to remove the buttons and force people to use the ****** Apple earphones." He replied, "do it."

I think his goal is to announce the iPhone at WWDC, if he feels and looks up to it. If not, he will simply return silently to Apple at the end of June. If Apple announces that he is doing the keynote, and then can't, it will cause even more problems.

 

[iMacmatician]

Don't know if this has been posted but...

From 9 to 5 mac:

Apple co-founder Mr. Jobs, who is considered the company's creative leader, is also involved in the development of future projects, they say. People privy to the company's strategy say Apple is working on new iPhone models and a portable device that is smaller than its current laptop computers but bigger than the iPhone or iPod Touch.

A new portable device? Mini-tablet? Netbook? Small MacBook Air?

 

[bobbleheadbob]

I just hope he recovers quickly and is able to continue with as much involvement as he wants to have. Get well, Steve.

 

[yongxiaofeng]

"Apple spokesman Steve Dowling is quoted as saying "Steve continues to look forward to returning to Apple at the end of June."
WWDC is June 8-12

Steve won't be at WWDC09'.

don't you think it will be one more thing in June 8-12

with a larger scale touch screen device...

 

[Anuba]

From 9 to 5 mac:

A new portable device? Mini-tablet? Netbook? Small MacBook Air?

Tablet netbook seems like the obvious way to go. A metal slab with glass front, 4x the screen size of iPhone and the ability to run iPhone games after some slight modifications (vector graphics will simply be scaled up but bitmaps need some work).

 

[andy721]

Obviously

Thats when 10.6 comes out or at least in November.

 

[Anuba]

Of course he did. He told the Shuffle Department "I want it smaller," and they said, "but we'll have to remove the buttons and force people to use the ****** Apple earphones." He replied, "do it."

The new Shuffle reminds me of an episode of Absolutely Fabulous called "White Box". Edwina is having her kitchen redecorated by this obsessive-compulsive, latex-clad German woman who keeps removing everything until it's just a plain white room with a white kitchen table and no chairs. Something is still disturbing her, though (to the point where her partner has to increase her dosage of sedatives), and through clenched teeth she insists that the table will have to go, too.

don't you think it will be one more thing in June 8-12

Maybe Steve will be the one more thing this time. Phil Schiller does the whole keynote, then "One More Thing..." appears on the screen, then Steve comes crashing through it on a motorcycle.

 

[Eric S.]

AbFab rules.

 

[BTW]

How have they been successful in the computer department?

They've had 25 years to get where they are. They've had the iPod/iTunes halo effect, and now the iPhone halo effect. They've been advertising like mad -- Switch campaigns, Get a Mac campaigns, Pentium Toaster campaigns and what not. They've moved to Intel and made it so that switchers can actually keep Windows around during the transition. They've had much more product placement in movies and TVs than any other computer manufacturer, and a huge amount of direct or indirect celebrity endorsements too. For the last 4 years they've also sold a relatively cheap, entry-level "plugin Mac", the Mac Mini, so you no longer have the price as an excuse for never getting a taste of OS X. Their designs are sexier than ever. And for the last two years they've been up against competition (Vista) that's been a universally panned flop, and Apple has exploited this to no end in their marketing. And STILL the market share is only at 10% in the US and single digits internationally.

That is not success; relatively speaking, considering all things they have going for them now that they didn't have in, say, 1999 -- it's an EPIC FAIL. And if it weren't for the iPods, iPhones, the iPhone store, AppleTV, MobileMe and the rest of their products that aren't computers, they'd still be struggling like they were in the 90's.

Consider this: After two years, the iPhone has a larger market share in its field than Mac/OS X has in the personal computer and OS domain. Despite the fact that with the iPhone, Apple entered an already oversaturated market where competitor like Nokia had a 10-15 year head start, and much better reputation than PC/Microsoft/Windows. What does that tell you about the Mac's market position after twenty-five years of competing against something that supposedly everyone knows is crap?

I'm totally on-board with Apple licensing their OSX. They should at least do it on the OSX Server side. Even their latest Xserve is behind the curve on features (2.5" SAS disks, RAID-6, fiber ethernet/HBAs, etc.).

 

[ucfgrad93]

Glad to hear it! Best wishes for a full recovery, Steve

Agreed, I hope he is better soon.

 

[kdarling]

Tablet netbook seems like the obvious way to go. A metal slab with glass front, 4x the screen size of iPhone and the ability to run iPhone games after some slight modifications (vector graphics will simply be scaled up but bitmaps need some work).

No need to scale up the graphics Just display three+ iPhone apps side by side (or above and below) all at the same time. One could be weather, the second photos, another something else. Make it the ultimate widget tablet with the App Store.

Slap a magnet on the back, and it could be the fabled refrigerator device. Pop out its stand and it can sit on a desk.

 

[deconstruct60]

How have they been successful in the computer department?

They've had 25 years to get where they are.

1984. Apple entered the computer business in 1984? Wow that was quite apropos to have a Big Brother in that commercial. 25 years later and folks are rewriting history: only it isn't those "Other folks" but the Apple fans that is doing it. At one point Apple was the largest PC vendor. They got smoked over the years and now are a niche player. IBM PC + DOS came in and pulled ahead. Windows came out and pulled away.


Apple's market share in recent years has somewhat gone up because "market share" is a skewed statistic. Most folks normally treat "market share" as if it was a percentage of units sold. For instance, if there are 100 million PCs sold in the world and Apple has 10% "market share" that 10 million of them are Macs. The most commonly quoted "market share" in the press and by 'analyst' is "revenue market share". That doesn't necessarily equate to number of units sold; they a coupled but not the same.

A significant part of Apple's revenue market share of late has been Apple keeping the average selling price of their computers higher than other folks. That's giving them an increase in revenue "market share", but not necessarily in terms of unit market share.

Another smaller contributing factor is Bootcamp. If for whatever reason Apple collapsed in a year or two you can still boot up a copy of Windows. You hardware isn't a doorstop. Back when you couldn't have an emergency exit strategy to a leading Desktop OS, that kept some folks out of the market for a Mac.

A bigger contributor was Apple putting boxes on the market that were competitively priced. Matching hardware features got you similar prices as the vendors who had greater than Apple's market share were offering.

Short term it probably will work for a while of fighting the market forces to freeze average selling prices. Long term, it is a loser. In computer tech market, the high end features all go to the lower end over time. At some point going to get to point where computers are fast enough for most folks.
(that's in part what the Microsoft campaign is driving at. PCs have a more competitive/diverse ecosystem for consumers to participate in. )

That "we're just going to ignore market and just demand higher margins" strategy worked for a while in the 90's until it eventually collapsed. Apple gained share when they brought their prices back into line. Perhaps someone in Apple wants to kill off the single Quad, 3xxx series Xeon Mac Pros because those are example of where Apple not even close to competitive.

Consider this: After two years, the iPhone has a larger market share in its field than Mac/OS X has in the personal computer and OS domain.

Again the skewed revenue market share effect. Apple doesn't sell more affordable phones; only one of the most expensive phones on the market. In fact, Apple eventually broke and now even the iPhone has gone to the highly subsidized price model. That only masks the fact that iPhone still has one of the highest lifetime costs. If Apple hadn't cut the "buy in" price they likely would not have hit the numbers they were talking about hitting.

Again short term it will work. However, when every phone manufacturer has a touch screen phone and a "good enough" phone experience in the longer run.

The iPod has been more of an abnormality for Apple over the last 25 years. They did come to market with more affordable products and did let the average price go down .... at least until now. The touch is to a small extent them trying to push it back up. ( at least with some value-add. )