Steve Jobs Suggests Blu-ray Not Coming to Mac Anytime Soon

[Liquorpuki]

I will go with what I said before.
Do I see optical media coming to an end? Yes I do.

Do I see physical media coming to an end any time soon? No I don't.

The reason for that is you can not share DL media. Also the DL media quality is by far less than that of Blu-Ray or other physical media. What I see it being replace by is some type of flash memory as that starts getting driven down in price more and more. It will just become cost effect to sell something like a flash drive full of the information that can hold more data for a cheaper price.

There's also the inconvenience factor of having to wait for the download to complete. It's funny. Jobs rationale for people wanting to buying MP3's off iTunes was the convenience of being able to get a song immediately - instant gratification. He was right. Add to this the fact you no longer had to buy a whole album to get that one song you want and you can see the model's appeal.

When it comes to movies though, the convenience is countered by the download time. I now have to wait 1-3 hours when I could just go to Best Buy and buy the actual DVD on sale at a cheaper price.

 

[DMann]

If it's broken it's broken and at the end of the day that's what ultimately matters.

Broken, in what way?

As DoFoT9 pointed out, Macs burn BD discs, and are also capable of BD playback via MakeMKV UDP live stream to VLC.

Meanwhile, one can enjoy BD on large HD screens, with ample sound systems capable of reaping the benefits BD has to offer.

Having workarounds and options ≠ broken.

While distribution red tape is by and large out of Apple's hands I would argue that the success of the iTMS coupled w/the large amount of control Steve demands is making companies think long and hard about what it will cost them to get into bed with Apple.

With DVD sales continuing to tank, Entertainment Industry Struggles To Adapt As DVD Sales Decline, I'm not so sure that jumping onto the iTMS train is viewed as an unfavorable idea.

Clearly, Apple believes that digital streaming is the future, and that for the comparatively small sector who desires BD playback on a Mac, workarounds are available.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

There's also the inconvenience factor of having to wait for the download to complete. It's funny. Jobs rationale for people wanting to buying MP3's off iTunes was the convenience of being able to get a song immediately - instant gratification. He was right. Add to this the fact you no longer had to buy a whole album to get that one song you want and you can see the model's appeal.

When it comes to movies though, the convenience is countered by the download time. I now have to wait 1-3 hours when I could just go to Best Buy and buy the actual DVD on sale at a cheaper price.

so true. Mp3s are generally less than 10 megs and most of them are under 5 megs. At that amount you can get a sound in under 30 sec max. The time spent getting the download started is often longer than it takes the download the song.

Problem is when you start getting up to the gigs range that just takes a while to download. Hell it takes a fair amount of time to transfer that much data over wired home network which is a lot faster than the internet. Internet speeds for the most part are going to level off at around 10Mbts and does not matter if your connection is faster or not it is safe to bet that the limiting side is Apple upload caps.

That just takes a long time. Add in the fact that you can not share it very easily or move it around makes it a pain.

On top of that from iTMS you are very limited on where you can play it. You either have to own the craptacture Apple TV or go threw the trouble of hooking your computer up to your TV to watch it on the much larger, and nicer screen. Neither of which are good options. No way to share with friends.
Bluray I can pop it in watch it on my TV and when I travel I can take it with me and watch it on my laptop in theory.

 

[LethalWolfe]

I'm not exactly sure if that is an accurate comparison. Apple can burn BD discs, both the ones produced in FCP/Toast and data discs in DU.app and Toast. Its not as though apple are completely missing the format here, you can put in a BD disc and do whatever (provided you have the BD drive of course). Its more like apple is trying to defend against the puck getting in the goals, or somethihg. I can't think of a clever analogy

It's an incomplete kludge of a workaround. Yes, you can burn a Blu-ray disc but you can't author a Blu-ray disc (menus and all that jazz) unless you get CS4/5 but from what I've read Adobe Encore for Mac kinda sucks so if making Blu-ray is routine for you (like part of your business) then you are better off getting a PC to use as a Blu-ray authoring station. At least that's the gist I'm getting from the industry forums I frequent.

Broken, in what way?

In part broken in that artificial boundaries block off who can watch what depending on where they live even if they purchased a legal copy of the media. It doesn't mean it can't be fixed in the future but I think the consumer's utopian idea of cloud based media (I can watch what I want, when I want, where ever I want) I think is going to be at odds w/the gatekeepers utopian idea of cloud based media (they can only watch what I let them watch, when I let them watch it, where I let them watch it). Call me pessimistic but I'm wary about consumers becoming even more dependent on these companies than we already are. But that could be a whole 'nother thread.

With DVD sales continuing to tank, Entertainment Industry Struggles To Adapt As DVD Sales Decline, I'm not so sure that jumping onto the iTMS train is viewed as an unfavorable idea.

If it was seen as such a favorable idea you wouldn't see things like movie studios/networks creating their own alternatives (like Hulu) and music studios giving favorable terms to Amazon's music download service.

Not everyone wants to be completely dependent on Steve Jobs and Apple.

Clearly, Apple believes that digital streaming is the future, and that for the comparatively small sector who desires BD playback on a Mac, workarounds are available.

Clearly, but I think the sector that desires BD functionality is bigger than you think and I think the sector that would jump on BD functionality if Jobs pitched it to them is much, much bigger than you think. But, IMO, Jobs doesn't want to offer options now in fear that it will erode the ability of movies on iTunes to really get a footing. I think the Share to Blu-ray feature in FCP is a begrudging admission that they know people want this ability and they hope that little feature is enough to placate the user base (at least for now).


Lethal

 

[Cave Man]

BWith DVD sales continuing to tank, Entertainment Industry Struggles To Adapt As DVD Sales Decline, I'm not so sure that jumping onto the iTMS train is viewed as an unfavorable idea.

That article is more about how people are obtaining content more through rental DVDs (e.g., Netflix and to a lesser extend downloads) vs. purchasing DVDs. There could be a number of reasons for this change, including the desire to not buy DVDs to the economic downturn which has limited purchasing power of consumers (i.e., renting is cheaper than buying).

 

[DoFoT9]

When ADSL2+ came by, ISPs jumped on the opportunity to install their own DSLAMs. No underlying wholesale costs == far cheaper deals..

Ahh that makes perfect sense! I am glad that the NBN will not fully be owned by telstra then, as we would see another massive war over pricing etc. I do hope that Gillard wins just for this sole issue, as Internet is massively important to a lot of people.

3GB movies is about 10 times less than a Blu-ray. I'd rather just have the quality.

yes lol I am well aware of how big they are, just ripped avatar to mkv the other day

Wait, you're trying to tell me how to work MakeMKV and VLC and all that crap I've been using for years and you don't know what a DLNA (Digital Living Network Alliance) server is ? Again, I know how to stream media thankyouverymuch, but legal Internet options for doing it are filled with nasty DRM (limit on devices that can view the media, always-on Internet required to view it) that are unacceptable to me and streaming my own optical media based movies is rather silly seeing how I have the disc.

If I plop down 20$ for a movie, I better damn well be able to watch it on any of my capable devices without having to go through "activations" or having to load up 5 pieces of different software that stream it from one to the other. Not to mention I better damn well be able to watch during an Internet outage.

I had no idea what a DLNA server is, you do realise I live on Australia where I can only download 50GB a month for $130, right? We do not have Hulu, or streaming services due to these massive costs.

How do you expect to watch your movies on any device without using 5 pieces of software? A BD won't magically convert itself into an TV copy, an iPhone copy, and a copy suitable for running on your desktop machine etc. I do, however, approve of the companies charging a tiny bit more for a BD and allowing users to download a digital copy if they so wish, that's a neat idea!!

It's an incomplete kludge of a workaround. Yes, you can burn a Blu-ray disc but you can't author a Blu-ray disc (menus and all that jazz) unless you get CS4/5 but from what I've read Adobe Encore for Mac kinda sucks so if making Blu-ray is routine for you (like part of your business) then you are better off getting a PC to use as a Blu-ray authoring station. At least that's the gist I'm getting from the industry forums I frequent.

that seems to be what I'm seeing too, I thought that authoring was going to be added soon. I sure hope so.

P.s. Written from iPad, sorry for vagueness.

 

[Crunch]

P.s. Written from iPad, sorry for vagueness.

Get the wireless Bluetooth keyboard. It's awesome!

 

[DMann]

In part broken in that artificial boundaries block off who can watch what depending on where they live even if they purchased a legal copy of the media. It doesn't mean it can't be fixed in the future but I think the consumer's utopian idea of cloud based media (I can watch what I want, when I want, where ever I want) I think is going to be at odds w/the gatekeepers utopian idea of cloud based media (they can only watch what I let them watch, when I let them watch it, where I let them watch it). Call me pessimistic but I'm wary about consumers becoming even more dependent on these companies than we already are. But that could be a whole 'nother thread.

Broken, not necessarily.

Evolving, yes.

The advent of iTunes has helped record labels in a big way.

Here's hoping that once media content settles in, this regional BS will erode, in a similar manner that DRM has with music tracks.

If it was seen as such a favorable idea you wouldn't see things like movie studios/networks creating their own alternatives (like Hulu) and music studios giving favorable terms to Amazon's music download service.

Not everyone wants to be completely dependent on Steve Jobs and Apple.

Hulu, YouTube, even network websites offering full episodes and seasons, are all vehicles for advertisers, and all viable options.

They've coexisted with iTunes, Amazon, etc., and likely will continue to do so.

Clearly, but I think the sector that desires BD functionality is bigger than you think and I think the sector that would jump on BD functionality if Jobs pitched it to them is much, much bigger than you think. But, IMO, Jobs doesn't want to offer options now in fear that it will erode the ability of movies on iTunes to really get a footing. I think the Share to Blu-ray feature in FCP is a begrudging admission that they know people want this ability and they hope that little feature is enough to placate the user base (at least for now).

Perhaps it is, or was - continued market research will help weigh things out in terms of demand. For all we know, BD BTO options on a Mac may actually see the light of day.

That article is more about how people are obtaining content more through rental DVDs (e.g., Netflix and to a lesser extend downloads) vs. purchasing DVDs. There could be a number of reasons for this change, including the desire to not buy DVDs to the economic downturn which has limited purchasing power of consumers (i.e., renting is cheaper than buying).

Of note:

"There is a new market developing that's beginning to replace the physical DVD business. This may not be as elegant a transition as some of the industry's previous transitions because consumer technologies move so quickly these days, but it will happen."

"U.S. consumers spent an estimated $2.26 billion on DVD and Blu-ray movies in the second quarter, down 14% from the same period a year ago, according to Nash Information Services LLC, a home video market data provider. That figure has been in steady decline since the third quarter of 2007--the year that spending in the category peaked at nearly $16 billion. Last year, the market shrank to less than $13 billion."

Blame it on the economy, or blame it on the convenience of streaming/renting.

BD will be around for a while, but as bandwidth beefs up, the paradigm will likely keep on shifting.

 

[DoFoT9]

Get the wireless Bluetooth keyboard. It's awesome!

i have a wireless BT keyboard - old white apple one, will that work?

....
Blame it on the economy, or blame it on the convenience of streaming/renting.

hard to say with the economic troubles - we cant reliably give an answer at all can we.

 

[DMann]

i have a wireless BT keyboard - old white apple one, will that work?

It ought to.

hard to say with the economic troubles - we cant reliably give an answer at all can we.

At the very least, we can dismiss the claim that BD sales have been increasing at exponential levels.

 

[cheesymogul]

Keep drinking the kool-aid. Honestly you can't get any more fanboyish than this. I know what I want and I know what I need. I want a 1080p hi-def version of a film, not a crappy inferior 720p or 480p encode, for virtually the same price, or in some cases more. It is far easier to blindly Follow Jobs than dare question him.

Yes, I find nothing more annoying about the Apple platform and its so called community, than the growing number of Applologists and fundamentalists preaching the gospel of "good enough", while believing their turtlenecked Semi-God can turn sink water into whine. Some of them are too blind and too brainwashed to take a look outside the barbed-wired walls of Apple's self-proclaimed paradise, to even see what else is out there in the real world...

I guess the level of satisfaction or frustration the lack of BD support presents for you, solely depends on the quality standards you are used to.

If "good enough" is your thing, then go ahead and watch crappy downloads or dvd's on your small screen as much as you want.
But at least allow us quality lovers the courtesy to fight for better quality and stop dragging us down to your own level of mediocrity!

Because "good enough" is not how progress works!
It never has. And it never will!!!

 

[KnightWRX]

Because "good enough" is not how progress works!
It never has. And it never will!!!

Kind of a paradox when you think about it. There's so much trumpeting about "Innovation!" and Apple being "The high-end products, innovative and ahead of the curve!" yet when faced with something Apple is late to the game with, it's "Good enough is plenty for everyone!"

So which is it, does Apple offer best-of-best in consumer technology or do they sell a trendy-good-enough technology ?

 

[janstett]

also, i wouldnt classify BD as being available to "everybody" - the prices of discs/players still make most people cringe.

Hmm, just browsing Amazon I'm seeing players starting at $45 and 8 players under $100. I bought a Vizio player last Xmas for $110.

Disc prices aren't so bad. You can catch them as low as $10 on sale and I've even snagged some for $5 as DVD upgrade offers.

(And oh, by the way, I was an early adopter of DVD and I have a Sony reference player that sold for $1199.)

 

[janstett]

Apple is clearly focused on where things are going and not where they've been.

No, Apple isn't even focused on where things are.

If Apple were thinking ahead, it would have been the first manufacturer to adopt Blu-Ray 3 or 4 years ago. Oops.

Unless the future is overpaying for outdated and obsolete hardware, then, yes, Apple is focusing on where things are going.

 

[janstett]

Kind of a paradox when you think about it. There's so much trumpeting about "Innovation!" and Apple being "The high-end products, innovative and ahead of the curve!" yet when faced with something Apple is late to the game with, it's "Good enough is plenty for everyone!"

So which is it, does Apple offer best-of-best in consumer technology or do they sell a trendy-good-enough technology ?

That's the problem when the image, sung by refrain, doesn't match the reality. Fanbois explode.

 

[leroypants]

Yes, I find nothing more annoying about the Apple platform and its so called community, than the growing number of Applologists and fundamentalists preaching the gospel of "good enough", while believing their turtlenecked Semi-God can turn sink water into whine. Some of them are too blind and too brainwashed to take a look outside the barbed-wired walls of Apple's self-proclaimed paradise, to even see what else is out there in the real world...

Could not be more true.

I guess the level of satisfaction or frustration the lack of BD support presents for you, solely depends on the quality standards you are used to.

I have no idea why people would be fine, and down right happy over the fact that a film can look better on a 700 dollar 15 inch laptop than a 27 inch imac. Apple 27 inch imacs should be the pinnacle of viewing a film on a computer.

If "good enough" is your thing, then go ahead and watch crappy downloads or dvd's on your small screen as much as you want.
But at least allow us quality lovers the courtesy to fight for better quality and stop dragging us down to your own level of mediocrity!

No kidding, people defend Jobs on this one but could not be more wrong. It is the typical "Jobs knows best for me" attitude and it is sickening. Instead of thinking for themselves they have to justify the situation in order to be on the side of apple rather than on the side of common sense.

 

[JAT]

"U.S. consumers spent an estimated $2.26 billion on DVD and Blu-ray movies in the second quarter, down 14% from the same period a year ago, according to Nash Information Services LLC, a home video market data provider. That figure has been in steady decline since the third quarter of 2007--the year that spending in the category peaked at nearly $16 billion. Last year, the market shrank to less than $13 billion."

At the very least, we can dismiss the claim that BD sales have been increasing at exponential levels.

Your reference combines DVD and BD. However, BD has been increasing at greater levels than DVD did at the same age. Very difficult in this climate to analyze what it means.

Also, renting still means you have to make the optical media. Just means fewer individuals purchasing them.

 

[OllyW]

At the very least, we can dismiss the claim that BD sales have been increasing at exponential levels.

How much growth do you want?

According to aggregate weekly estimates from the research department of Home Media Magazine and listed each week on blu-ray.com's sales information posts, revenues from BD sales in the US in the first quarter of 2010 were $331.31 million, 68.5% more than in the same period of 2009.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=4390

European Blu-ray sales have doubled in a year, according to figures for the first quarter of 2010 released by Digital Entertainment Group Europe.

The first section of this year saw Europe-wide disc sales leap by 94% as Blu-ray fans collectively forked out for over 8 million new discs.

http://bluraydaily.com/news/201006/blu-ray-gets-a-big-sales-boost/

It is worth mentioning that Blu-ray sold more in these relatively slow two first months of the year than digital downloads did in the whole of 2009

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=4245

 

[KnightWRX]

How much growth do you want?

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=4390

http://bluraydaily.com/news/201006/blu-ray-gets-a-big-sales-boost/

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=4245

Don't bother with facts. Steve Jobs said blu-ray is dead, blu-ray is dead to the people that follow him.

 

[DMann]

Don't bother with facts. Steve Jobs said blu-ray is dead, blu-ray is dead to the people that follow him.

When did I ever say Blu-Ray is dead?

 

[iEdd]

When did I ever say Blu-Ray is dead?

I think he meant don't bother arguing with people who keep saying it's dead.

 

[Liquorpuki]

No, Apple isn't even focused on where things are.

If Apple were thinking ahead, it would have been the first manufacturer to adopt Blu-Ray 3 or 4 years ago. Oops.

Unless the future is overpaying for outdated and obsolete hardware, then, yes, Apple is focusing on where things are going.

3-4 years ago, nobody even knew if Blu-Ray or HD-DVD would win the HD war

 

[toke lahti]

Blame it on the economy, or blame it on the convenience of streaming/renting.

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=239358&d=1279294473

 

[DoFoT9]

It ought to.

woohoo! time to bust it out then

At the very least, we can dismiss the claim that BD sales have been increasing at exponential levels.

no arguement there - did DVD sales go up or down? there are only so many movies that people will buy a year.

Hmm, just browsing Amazon I'm seeing players starting at $45 and 8 players under $100. I bought a Vizio player last Xmas for $110.

Disc prices aren't so bad. You can catch them as low as $10 on sale and I've even snagged some for $5 as DVD upgrade offers.

dont come to australia then. you wont find a BD for under $20 (a good one anyway), and the first BD player under $100 has just been advertised in the last few weeks.

(And oh, by the way, I was an early adopter of DVD and I have a Sony reference player that sold for $1199.)

congrats! i bet that was a very exciting occasion! my first DVD player was a Graphite 1999 iMac it cost $3k in reality, the amount of people willing to "fork" out that money for new technology isnt that great. us prosumers are quite rare.

 

[KnightWRX]

no arguement there - did DVD sales go up or down? there are only so many movies that people will buy a year.

Except his point was plainly wrong. Blu-ray growth is real. His stats were BD + DVD combined. DVD is on a decline, BD is on a climb. BD still outgrows and has way bigger share than downloads.