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It has proven more flexible than stand-alone Blu-Ray players as it is updatable via firmware -- thus it has grown from a profile 1.1 player to a profile 2.0 player and will grow again to a 3D player. No other stand-alone Blu-Ray player can say that, with stand-alones you have to buy new hardware.

Hint : Look again at the newer generation. I just updated my Blu-ray player firmware the other day. ;)

And the PS3 Blu-ray experiment isn't even innovative. Sony did the same for DVD with the PS2 back in the days. On release, the PS2 was the cheapest DVD player available, and one of the best.
 
I'll let history tell you. Talk to me in four, maybe five years.

IF this forum is still here despite Apple's demise.


Bah, more empty talk. Afterall, if this forum isn't here in 4-5 years, then you wouldn't be able to contact anyone to rub their noses in it. And if they're right and its still here but you've vamoosed, it again doesn't work.

If you're not simply blowing more "DOOM!" smoke, you would be willing to exchange IRL contact information through a third party, and perhaps even make a gentleman's wager with real money, or some other tangible, so that on some specified day .. say 31 Dec 2014 .. this so freely-offered prediction can be nailed down and clearly resolved. Unfortunately, all too often when there's no consequences for our words, the words get silly.

FWIW & personally, I'd say that MR will still be alive and kicking on 12-31-14. And if you give me a 4:1 payout, you can put me down for at least $1K on the table.

If nothing else, the discussion board new user registrations illustrate why this is a slam-dunk that doesn't make even odds appropriate: looking at my 7-2001 MacRumors Member registration number (#1,937) versus thread participant DMann's 1-2002 (#3,566), it illustrates a historical user growth rate of roughly +271 new registers per month back then, whereas your 1-2008 registration (#149,276) and versus a fresh Sept 2010 one (#491,0xx) yields a contemporary growth rate of +356 per day (+10,679 per month). Golly, MR is so stagnant that its demise is obvious. :rolleyes:

...simply decide for yourself how you want to parse the statistics; another way to do so is to observe that the total membership at MR from nearly a decade ago now gets that many new members every 2 months.



-hh
 
How did you do that?

Uh ? How did I do that ? I turned on the player, it said "There's a new update available for the firmware, do you wish to update ?", I highlighted the YES button and hit OK on the remote. It then downloaded and installed the update and even rebooted on its on with the new firmware.

My TV requires more steps, because firmware updates need to be downloaded to a USB thumb drive, connected into the TV's USB port and updated manually.

You guys are really living in the stone age.

And what did the update provide you?

Who knows, I'm not wasting time reading changelogs.
 
Hint : Look again at the newer generation. I just updated my Blu-ray player firmware the other day. ;)

And the PS3 Blu-ray experiment isn't even innovative. Sony did the same for DVD with the PS2 back in the days. On release, the PS2 was the cheapest DVD player available, and one of the best.

Ok I guess I wasn't suffociently clear. Virtually every CE device has updatable firmware. In the case of Blu-Ray players sure they do minor tweaks; but none other than the PS3 has jumped up a profile with only a software change. If you bought a launch-era 1.1 profile player it can never be a 2.0 profile player so if you want those new features you must buy new hardware. Same for all the players sold to date and the 3D profile. Only the PS3 bridges those gaps with no new hardware.

If you aren't aware of blu-ray profiles, it's their way to release the format piecemeal instead of waiting for all features to be complete.
 
You guys are really living in the stone age.

The point is those "updates" can modify the kernel of the OS on Blu-ray drives installed on personal computers. It's there to "prevent" disc copying, which is really silly since the technology has already been defeated. If the Blu-ray Disc Association would abandon this requirement (and not change it to another intrusive mechanisms), then you'd probably see Apple support those discs. Apple's deemed the kernel off-limits to anyone but them. I don't blame them.
 
The point is those "updates" can modify the kernel of the OS on Blu-ray drives installed on personal computers. It's there to "prevent" disc copying, which is really silly since the technology has already been defeated. If the Blu-ray Disc Association would abandon this requirement (and not change it to another intrusive mechanisms), then you'd probably see Apple support those discs. Apple's deemed the kernel off-limits to anyone but them. I don't blame them.

What are you smoking ? I'm talking about appliances, you're talking about PCs ?

:rolleyes:

Ok I guess I wasn't suffociently clear. Virtually every CE device has updatable firmware. In the case of Blu-Ray players sure they do minor tweaks; but none other than the PS3 has jumped up a profile with only a software change. If you bought a launch-era 1.1 profile player it can never be a 2.0 profile player so if you want those new features you must buy new hardware. Same for all the players sold to date and the 3D profile. Only the PS3 bridges those gaps with no new hardware.

If you aren't aware of blu-ray profiles, it's their way to release the format piecemeal instead of waiting for all features to be complete.

I'm aware of the profiles. 3D is something else, it requires more processing power. The PiP features don't really. Though I do admit I don't ever hope to see any manufacturer release more than bugfixes, they theoretically could, as long as the hardware is capable. The mecanisms are there.

Customer updateable firmwares is rather new in consumer electronics. But it's here. Give it time and I'm sure some if not all manufacturer will jump on the feature adding bandwagon. I'm most eager to see if LG adds Netflix to my Canadian Blu-ray player once it's released in November, since the same model can do Netflix in the US.
 
Blu-Ray doesn't "just work" on the mac, despite people saying it is possible to rip and watch with 3rd party hardware. That sucks.

Open GL 3 doesn't "just work" in Cinema 4d on the mac, have to move to Windows for that. And even if it did, I'm looking at a drop in performance of real time 3d on the mac anyway.

I'm tired of the "just work" mentality on the mac when all it means is that there are a couple of things that "just work," while everything else is a struggle to justify the immense price premium for the headaches I endure.

You shouldn't be "tired of the "just work" mentality on the mac" because "it is what it is." I am a former long time Windows user and former Microsoft trained applications developer. I had friends/colleagues that were Mac users when I was a Windows user and I didn't buy into Mac immediately. But eventually I got tired of the Windows shenanigans ( too many issues to list including client, server, network, etc.) and went to Linux and then Mac last year. My server choice is still Linux and no way in hell would I ever put a Windows server in my environment ever again!. For the desktop I prefer the Mac due to its stability first, and secondly its elegant looks!

I don't need a Blu Ray player on my Macs because I have a PS3 plus other stand alone BD players. The last thing I want to do is watch a BD movie on my 27" iMac when I have a dedicated home theater for movie watching. And I definitely don't want a computer hooked up to my home theater or my other entertainment displays. This is where Apple TV will fit in perfectly :)
 
im just waiting for a 3rd party to make some software that will play blu-rays in os x so I can pick up an external BR drive, if not i'll just play it in windows I don't have an hd tv in my room which is where i consume 80% of my media, so I would love to watch BRs on my imac
 
I didn't say it was nothing but a demo. Where are your production-grade 24 Gbps optical discs?
:rolleyes: not very flexible are you?

Cutting edge stuff invariably takes lots of money and lots of time. Feel free to revisit your above references and report back what the TRL is for each of these items at each date.

-hh
the HD was privately funded, and was meant to be released in a ~100GB variant in 2006! it is now 2010 and they still have no actual proper documentation on that, so its rather hard to find out if/when they can actually do it! it would be quite expensive. IBM has been looking into the technology for a long time - i hope it becomes current very soon :)
 
Blu-Ray doesn't "just work" on the mac, despite people saying it is possible to rip and watch with 3rd party hardware. That sucks.

Open GL 3 doesn't "just work" in Cinema 4d on the mac, have to move to Windows for that. And even if it did, I'm looking at a drop in performance of real time 3d on the mac anyway.

I'm tired of the "just work" mentality on the mac when all it means is that there are a couple of things that "just work," while everything else is a struggle to justify the immense price premium for the headaches I endure.

I agree. Apple achieves the "it just works" status by eliminating anything complicated. What's left does work (for the most part) but does not amount for much.
 
This whole thread is about Blu-Ray disc playback on Macs. Playback on computers is much more strict because of the potential to copy discs. That's why Blu-Ray decryption is don in the protected part of the kernel, and why it's a "bag of hurt" for Apple.

That's bullcrap. Apple already supports HDCP on its hardware and monitors. AACS is usually implemented in user space in the players themselves. What other kernel space component is missing ?

Or are you just repeating some kind of non-sense you've heard ?

The only "bag of hurt" is that Apple doesn't get a dime for Blu-ray sales (which isn't quite true, since Blu-ray discs use H.264 for video encoding, and Apple gets royalties on that).
 
They split the signal in 16 waves. That's how it fits.
Yep, maximum bit rate for dvb-c2 mux is 64 Mbit/s.
That should be quite enough for superHV efficiently compressed with some new variant of AVC.
Keeping in mind that with today's optics, 33 Mpix picture will have lots of blurry pixels, it should compress much more efficiently than 2 Mpix picture.
So technically they could start broadcasting today!
 
That's bullcrap. Apple already supports HDCP on its hardware and monitors. AACS is usually implemented in user space in the players themselves. What other kernel space component is missing ?

Or are you just repeating some kind of non-sense you've heard ?

The only "bag of hurt" is that Apple doesn't get a dime for Blu-ray sales (which isn't quite true, since Blu-ray discs use H.264 for video encoding, and Apple gets royalties on that).

This is not necessarily bull, since AACS licensing, with its "robustness rules," would, indeed, require reaching deeply into the OS, via execution of a portion of the implementation in ring zero, or supervisor mode. (i.e., in kernel mode)

Details about this had actually been published by Ars Technica: AACS DRM tentacles reach far into operating systems
 
The only "bag of hurt" is that Apple doesn't get a dime for Blu-ray sales (which isn't quite true, since Blu-ray discs use H.264 for video encoding, and Apple gets royalties on that).
If Apple would sell bd-drives inside their macs, they would get money from selling them.
Instead they have chosen to sell old generation optical drives.
That's solely their own decision.

Personally I have decided, that I'm not gonna buy new mac without bd-drive.
Instead I'm going to buy used macs and ipad.
So at least from me, they are loosing money.
And I think I'm not the only one.

This is not necessarily bull, since AACS licensing, with its "robustness rules," would, indeed, require reaching deeply into the OS, via execution of a portion of the implementation in ring zero, or supervisor mode. (i.e., in kernel mode)
We all know that windows implementations work in user space,
so this requirement can't be valid anymore.
Correct?
Details about this had actually been published by Ars Technica: AACS DRM tentacles reach far into operating systems
That Ars' article is badly outdated and all of its claims are knocked down in the update2 of the same article.
 
We all know that windows implementations work in user space,
so this requirement can't be valid anymore.
Correct?

There would have to be secure path in the system itself and it is the user space applications then use the API's to implement the secure path which they need. The secure path is very much dependent on a whole chain of requirements; drivers, video card the lot - the whole purpose is to stop people from being able to intervene somewhere in the process of decoding and getting to the video/audio card as to rip the content off the BluRay and save it into a file to then share.

With that being said they can support BluRay but it wouldn't be at the full resolution if they don't implement secure path - so that is the big question, are you happy with lower resolution BluRay without having to implement SecurePath or do you want the full resolution?
 
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