You're right, Blockbuster poised to collapse this fall is based 100% on Blu-Ray and not their business model.
How is netflix or redbox doing? How are Blu ray and dvd sales going?
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Steve Jobs Suggests Blu-ray Not Coming to Mac Anytime Soon
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
- Status
You're right, Blockbuster poised to collapse this fall is based 100% on Blu-Ray and not their business model.
How is netflix or redbox doing? How are Blu ray and dvd sales going?
Poor people who rent don't have very sophisticated tastes, demands, or that many plasmas either.
What an arrogant and ignorant statement.
You seem to know a lot about cookies and six-year olds. That's fitting since you have the debate skills of a grade-schooler. I see you are still painfully ignorant of the facts. I pointed you in the right direction with regard to Mac sales over the period of the past several years, but all you could come up with is the standard Apple-hater's creed of overall marketshare (which is a nebulous figure at best). What you should have tried to educate yourself about are the numbers of Macs sold during the time period after Blu-Ray was introduced in PCs. What you would have found is no decrease in numbers of Macs sold during this timeframe. In fact, Apple has been reporting increases in Mac sales YoY nearly every quarter for the past few years. Could the option of adding a Blu-Ray drive have made those increases even larger? Perhaps. But the lack of one clearly isn't slowing Mac sales, which was the erroneous point you and another poster were trying to make. See, there's a fundamental difference between your feelings and opinions about how things are, and the FACTS about what is actually happening in the real world. The sooner you figure out the difference, the sooner you'll be ready to argue with the grown-ups. Good luck in developing those skills!
If anyone needs to point out the most perfect example of the kettle calling the pot black, this would be it.
This would be the second best example of the kettle calling the pot black, and the second best example of someone dwelling in their own ignorance. You are blindly clouded with apple blinders and your "facts" are obviously a product of those. How are you typing with you head so far in the sand?
The overriding point to be made here is that Steve Jobs hasn't backed off his "no Flash in iOS" stance (it would be a huge media story if he had), no matter how much spin some might try to apply to recent events.
Netflix and Redbox are the reasons Blockbuster failed. They both rent blu-ray, only Netflix offers streaming.
BTW- this thread is now full of the most ridiculous crap I have ever seen.
That's the thing, Flash is coming to iOS in the form of the Flash to iOS compiler. So no matter how much you don't want Apple to have backed down, they did.
You're ignoring the very real facts that Apple added language to their dev license the day before Adobe shipped the Flash to iOS compiler to prevent its acceptance on the App Store and have now changed the wording in a way that makes it a complete 180 on the manner.
And it is a huge media story, it's up on all the tech sites, that reported the ban in the first place.
Jobs is taking some chances, but I can see his side .....
Far from his position "making no sense", I think it's a calculated decision that makes plenty of sense, but is obviously not without some risk.....
First of all, how many of you have actually been storing info on blu-ray discs you burnt with recorders? I ask because I know from my experiences with relatively commonplace dual-layer DVD+/-R recordable media, it's simply not that reliable a storage medium! Sometimes you burn a dual-layer disc and it reads fine on another machine, and other times it doesn't. There's so much information packed in each centimeter of space on one of those discs, too, a tiny scratch or scrape can wipe out hundreds of megabytes of data! Meanwhile, the media itself is generally not made very scratch-resistant! I've got scratched up DL DVD media that was damaged simply by it getting automatically sucked into and ejected from slot-loading drives!
There are some fundamental differences in the commercially pressed optical media you get when you, say, buy a Blu-Ray movie at the store, and the media you record onto with a personal recorder drive. The commercially pressed stuff is FAR more reliable, long-term, than anything you can burn.
Honestly, I think with as much data is packed onto a blu-ray recordable disc per square inch? They should be encased in some sort of protective "cartridge" at all times, and not even be allowed to handle directly with one's fingers and slide into slot-loader drives and such! From that standpoint, the format simply isn't appropriate for anything other than commercially pressed, pre-recorded content.
And secondarily, Apple/Jobs doesn't make a dime every time someone goes out and buys a new movie on blu-ray disc. However, he *does* get a cut if they opt to buy the movie digitally, via iTunes (or rent from, say, an AppleTV) instead. So discouraging the use of that format stands to benefit him financially in that respect, as well.
I don't know who all these supposed computer buyers are out there who consider a new Mac, but wind up going with some Windows PC instead, simply due to the lack of a Blu-Ray disc player in the machine?? I haven't encountered a SINGLE instance where that mattered to anyone I know! The fact is, most people interested in playing HD Blu-Ray media are shopping for dedicated set-top players for those discs, or using something like a Playstation 3 to view them. Their reasons for buying a new computer have little to do with wanting to watch new movies on it.... If they're looking at a Mac, it's usually because they wanted less spyware/virus hassles or heard OS X was easier/more friendly to use and crashed less often than Windows, or they just have a general idea that Macs are "better quality machines" with better support and local stores you can take them back to for assistance after the sale. They wouldn't discard all those concerns over lack of a blu-ray drive in the Mac!
Far from his position "making no sense", I think it's a calculated decision that makes plenty of sense, but is obviously not without some risk.....
First of all, how many of you have actually been storing info on blu-ray discs you burnt with recorders? I ask because I know from my experiences with relatively commonplace dual-layer DVD+/-R recordable media, it's simply not that reliable a storage medium! Sometimes you burn a dual-layer disc and it reads fine on another machine, and other times it doesn't. There's so much information packed in each centimeter of space on one of those discs, too, a tiny scratch or scrape can wipe out hundreds of megabytes of data! Meanwhile, the media itself is generally not made very scratch-resistant! I've got scratched up DL DVD media that was damaged simply by it getting automatically sucked into and ejected from slot-loading drives!
There are some fundamental differences in the commercially pressed optical media you get when you, say, buy a Blu-Ray movie at the store, and the media you record onto with a personal recorder drive. The commercially pressed stuff is FAR more reliable, long-term, than anything you can burn.
Honestly, I think with as much data is packed onto a blu-ray recordable disc per square inch? They should be encased in some sort of protective "cartridge" at all times, and not even be allowed to handle directly with one's fingers and slide into slot-loader drives and such! From that standpoint, the format simply isn't appropriate for anything other than commercially pressed, pre-recorded content.
And secondarily, Apple/Jobs doesn't make a dime every time someone goes out and buys a new movie on blu-ray disc. However, he *does* get a cut if they opt to buy the movie digitally, via iTunes (or rent from, say, an AppleTV) instead. So discouraging the use of that format stands to benefit him financially in that respect, as well.
I don't know who all these supposed computer buyers are out there who consider a new Mac, but wind up going with some Windows PC instead, simply due to the lack of a Blu-Ray disc player in the machine?? I haven't encountered a SINGLE instance where that mattered to anyone I know! The fact is, most people interested in playing HD Blu-Ray media are shopping for dedicated set-top players for those discs, or using something like a Playstation 3 to view them. Their reasons for buying a new computer have little to do with wanting to watch new movies on it.... If they're looking at a Mac, it's usually because they wanted less spyware/virus hassles or heard OS X was easier/more friendly to use and crashed less often than Windows, or they just have a general idea that Macs are "better quality machines" with better support and local stores you can take them back to for assistance after the sale. They wouldn't discard all those concerns over lack of a blu-ray drive in the Mac!
Originally Posted by xbjllb
Poor people who rent don't have very sophisticated tastes, demands, or that many plasmas either.
I could not agree more, Crunch.
Don't worry. Redbox, too, will provide streaming soon (http://goo.gl/NsbL), as will likely Google (http://arst.ch/m7x).
Poor people who rent don't have very sophisticated tastes, demands, or that many plasmas either.
I could not agree more, Crunch.
Don't worry. Redbox, too, will provide streaming soon (http://goo.gl/NsbL), as will likely Google (http://arst.ch/m7x).
Well, obviously (for everyone but GamecockMac) I was referring to Apple's recent changes to Apple App Store Guidelines. Steve did back off his stance. Not on Flash player but on Flash cross-platform compiler. As soon as he realizes that Apple is losing big to Android in part because of Flash player, he will back off the ban on Flash player too. Apple will come up with some press release similar to what they did for free case program: ""We now know the Flash Player issue is even smaller than we originally thought."
Tell you what...you go code a site that incorporates Flash, and we'll see if it is fully functional on an iPhone/iPad/iPod touch a few months from now. That's what I'm talking about, and there has been no 180, no backing down from that stance, and you'd have to be mentally challenged to suggest otherwise. Apple softened their guidelines for developers and the use of third-party software to create apps, and rightfully so, but that doesn't equate to ZOMG APPLE IS ALLOWING FLASH IN iOS. Sorry, but you can spin as fast as you like, it just doesn't make your claims any more accurate. It also doesn't help make the trolling by people such as lilo777 any more credible ("Apple is losing big to Android"? Please. Go check profits in the smartphone sector and get back to us).
If Apple backed down on their fundamental ban on Flash on their iDevices, it wouldn't just make news on the tech blogs, and I think you know that. Mainstream news outlets would pick up a story that Steve Jobs had completely reversed his position from that stated in his famous open letter. If Steve had backed off his anti-Flash stance and done a 180 as you are so gleefully asserting, then why is this link still active?
http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/
Case closed.
You're right, Blockbuster poised to collapse this fall is based 100% on Blu-Ray and not their business model.
Currently, Blu-Rays sales hover somewhere between 9% and 13% of disk sales depending on what movies are released. Taking the average, 11%, roughly 1 in 10 movies sold in physical media are Blu-Ray. Note that this figure does not include downloaded films purchased through Xbox, Sony, Apple, Amazon......
http://www.blu-raystats.com/
Perhaps more Blu-Rays will be sold once there is a final spec. That Blu-Ray of Avatar you just bought along with your new Blu-Ray player will need to have its firmware upgraded to watch it. Example: http://goo.gl/dJGL
If you have a Profile 1.0 player besides the PS3, good luck watching the special features on Blu-Rays that use Bonus View or BD-Live.
Poor people who rent don't have very sophisticated tastes, demands, or that many plasmas either.
I could not agree more, Crunch.
Ditto MacNewsFix!! That statement was like school in the summer, "no class."
I think it's actually more sophisticated to be able to stay on your couch and flip through a menu of movie titles than to get up and insert/eject a BD disc.
Yes, I do. Is the Wall Street Journal ok ?
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100909-709848.html
Drop the act, you know full well they just did a 180 on their position for the Dev License, which was enacted mainly because Adobe was 24 hours away from shipping the Flash to iOS compiler.
Any other posts by you trying to deny or spin this will destroy what remains of your credibility.
Yes, I do. Is the Wall Street Journal ok ?
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100909-709848.html
Drop the act, you know full well they just did a 180 on their position for the Dev License, which was enacted mainly because Adobe was 24 hours away from shipping the Flash to iOS compiler.
Any other posts by you trying to deny or spin this will destroy what remains of your credibility.
Love the advert on that WSJ page:
This is news - older tech gadgets can't run the latest?
IOS 4 seems to have turned a lot of less than year-old Iphone 3G phones into slugs.
Also, only the bleeding edge tech freaks who are not budget-challenged bought the original Profile 1.0 players, and almost all of them bought new Profile 2.0 players when those were announced.
Bonus-View was the norm when HD-DVD bit the dust - so when BD started to take off it was the norm.
Defending Apple's protectionist stance on BD by citing Profile 1.0 is really not a good argument. Apple wants to sell over-compressed 720p downloads - sometimes for about the same price as a 1080p high bitrate BD copy.
Attachments
Yes, I do. Is the Wall Street Journal ok ?
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100909-709848.html
Drop the act, you know full well they just did a 180 on their position for the Dev License, which was enacted mainly because Adobe was 24 hours away from shipping the Flash to iOS compiler.
Any other posts by you trying to deny or spin this will destroy what remains of your credibility.
I guess GamecockMac was referring to this (From the article you linked above):
So from a users perspective, not much seems to have changed.
So you're saying it is ok for people to piss money away? Forgive me if I remain dubious about Blu-Ray's specs being finalized when Profile 1.1 was billed as "The Final Standard Profile," and then there are things like from earlier this year:
Sony and Panasonic have announced that they have developed a new optical disc evaluation technology that will allow the layer capacity of Blu-ray media to increase from 25GB to 33.4GB using existing Blu-ray laser diodes. This would presumably allow existing Blu-ray hardware - including Blu-ray Disc players and burners - to play the proposed discs with a simple firmware upgrade.
Profile 2.0 didn't make it into players until less than 2 years ago. Many people, not necessarily in the same camp you painted Profile 1.0 owners, will possibly have problems running these proposed disks because they can't update the firmware on their Profile 1.1 players. Non-firmware upgradable players were being sold in 2009, which is precisely why I bought a PS3.
Also, I could care less if Apple stops selling videos through iTunes having never purchased one from them or any other service due to DRM. I use Netflix and Comcast OnDemand streaming services. I also have my DVDs in digital format on my Internet accessible NAS so I can watch them on any device anytime and anywhere without the need for lugging around a collection of fragile disks around like I did in the last millenium.
I'm sure the movie studios would love for us to rebuy all the movies we've bought over the last 10+ years, but, again, the difference in quality is not as compelling as when we went from VHS to DVD, at least to most people I talk to. Our books, music, and photos have all gone digital. Why can't our movies? Maybe once 1080p streaming arrives (reportedly very soon), I will be willing to buy digital movies. Just please ditch the DRM so I can play the movie on the device of my choosing.
OMG - my two year old 33 1/3 RPM LP turntable won't play these new-fangled stereo LPs!
_______
A completely silly argument. The only optical disc player in my home audio/home theatre setup is my BD player. It plays my CDs, my DVDs, and my BDs.
There is no reason to "rebuy" any of your DVD movies - unless you have a favourite movie that you want to watch again and again in TrueHD. (At this point, I've "rebought" two movies that I have DVDs of, and those were favorites that were remastered for BD (one was a two BD disc offering, the other three BDs). How long to download a 150 GB movie set?)
Of course, that's a big misunderstanding again of what Lilo777 originally meant and the whole situation. The thoughts on Flash, the ban in April, everything came about because Adobe previewed and was about to ship the Flash to iOS compiler.
This week, Apple reversed that decision. It never was about Flash as a browser plug in the first place. That some users got confused about the issue (including some Steve worshippers) doesn't change the hard cold facts.
Apple sometimes does 180s on their decisions. Lilo777's comment stands. Steve can spout crap about Blu-ray all day, you never know when it will come to Mac and Apple suddenly touts its openess and willingness to work with industry standards.
ROFLMAO.
Of course, "everyone" knows rich people get that way by renting videos instead of buying them.
Look. If you can afford to own and have the room to store, you do. If you can't, you rent. No shame in that, unless it's your own.
And my statement is backed up with many market surveys. Many of them private from the very video rental companies you guys work for.
There will never be any cutting edge cachet OR snob appeal for renting or downloads, so give it up before you start right there.
As far as getting up to insert a BD disc, my estate server is in a centralized part of the estate (the media room) and I usually ring one of the housekeepers to do that and route it to whichever of the five 80" plasma displays I happen to be at at the time. I rarely see the inside of the media room, unless it's the one off the home theater where I keep the popcorn. I like making my own, unless there are going to be a lot of guests.
I sincerely hope one day we'll all achieve my lifestyle.
I think you're over simplifying things a bit. I can afford to own and have plenty of room to store. I don't buy every movie I watch. I buy those that I feel I will watch more than once and that are "keepers". Sure it's hit and miss, sometimes I buy a movie expecting something good and end up with a turd. And sometimes I rent something expecting some quick entertainment only to find myself having to buy it the next week because it was that good.
But there's room for both renting and buying movies. These days, I rent movies over OnDemand from my cable provider. No late fees, no having to drive to a store, no having the hassle of a scratched up disk. However, when I buy, I buy on Blu-ray. I can playback the disc in any player I have, lend it to friends, have the best quality I can expect and don't have to waste my bandwidth and NAS hard drives on it.
I think you're the one who needs an education, apparently you don't understand the adoption bell curve or the purpose of an "early adopter". Such a person is one who lives on the bleeding edge -- while it may be a smaller number of people, these people are influential to their colleagues, friends, and family, and make recommendations to them in kind. These are the people you want to get on your side. Having one early adopter can lead to 50 "normal" users down the road. Apple used to understand that. Fail to win early adopters and you're in trouble down the road.
But now take a look at how the Macs have withered since the rise of the iDevices. The Mac Pro is an overpriced joke and is often several generations behind in technology. The video card issue in particular annoys the hell out of me, selling us 3-generation old technology at 3x the price of the PC. The complete lack of Blu-Ray on Macs is another prime example of Apple missing the boat on the early adopters, people they used to covet. No netbooks, no mid towers, no Blu-Ray, outdated hardware, POS Apple TV, garbage pseudo-HD on iTunes, the lack of a Mac Mini geared to the HPTC market with Blu-Ray and PVR, the list goes on and on. Apple used to be on the bleeding edge of technology and specifically media production and consumption, but no longer.
So here's the part you don't understand -- the early adopters, the people who influence other people's opinions are turning away from the Mac and can't recommend Macs because they don't do many media things as well as a PC can, and that's a fact. A really sad fact given how Apple has portrayed itself throughout its history.
Right now, on the Macintosh side of the house, Apple is riding a wave of chic image backed up by nothing behind it. That good will smoke will disappear rather quickly. Meanwhile Apple is driving away the very people that it used to covet, and eventually those chickens will come home to roost, there is only a market lag preventing this trend from being visible today. The next wave that the early adopters are pioneering today is turning away from the Mac because the platform is becoming restrictive like a pair of mittens. This will not show huge differences today but it will down the road.
So now we know who has been exposed as ignorant, and it is YOU.
What's your point? That you don't mind buying electronics equipment the becomes obsolete in, not two years, but one? Again, there were non-firmware upgradable Blu-ray players for sale in 2009. It's only 2010.
Drawing a parallel between LPs that were around for almost a century with Blu-Ray specs/formats that seem to change with the seasons is truly a ridiculous argument.
TrueHD is an audio codec from Dolby. Do you mean 1080p as opposed to 720p?
As for the three disks you bought at 1080p and your question as to where a download substitute lies, that question should be answered shortly.
http://bit.ly/dcvDZ3
ROFLMAO.
Of course, "everyone" knows rich people get that way by renting videos instead of buying them.
Look. If you can afford to own and have the room to store, you do. If you can't, you rent. No shame in that, unless it's your own.
And my statement is backed up with many market surveys. Many of them private from the very video rental companies you guys work for.
There will never be any cutting edge cachet OR snob appeal for renting or downloads, so give it up before you start right there.
As far as getting up to insert a BD disc, my estate server is in a centralized part of the estate (the media room) and I usually ring one of the housekeepers to do that and route it to whichever of the five 80" plasma displays I happen to be at at the time. I rarely see the inside of the media room, unless it's the one off the home theater where I keep the popcorn. I like making my own, unless there are going to be a lot of guests.
I sincerely hope one day we'll all achieve my lifestyle.
Thanks for confirming our assessment.
Personally, I think I am moving on from disks. I would never have said this a year or two ago, but the options from streaming and download are many as are the options for either renting or owning digital copies.
We have a PS3 and have purchased maybe 4 BR movies and Rented maybe 6, a tiny amount in comparison to the downloads we have consumed.
We will continue to get DVD's at a bargain here and there, but my own desire for a BR drive in the Mac has waned.
We have a PS3 and have purchased maybe 4 BR movies and Rented maybe 6, a tiny amount in comparison to the downloads we have consumed.
We will continue to get DVD's at a bargain here and there, but my own desire for a BR drive in the Mac has waned.
Makes me really miss windows. I definitely want to sell my iPhone and not getting an iPad. Thanks for this post otherwise I would have made some more poor choices in continually buying products that just work. I would have too much free time and be bored. I think I like wasting my time fixing inferior products.
- Status