Oh and by the way, the PS3 *is* a good Blu-Ray player, with the exception that it physically can't bitstream HD audio to a receiver.
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Steve Jobs Suggests Blu-ray Not Coming to Mac Anytime Soon
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Oh and by the way, the PS3 *is* a good Blu-Ray player, with the exception that it physically can't bitstream HD audio to a receiver.
I've mentioned it before, but the problem I have with 4K as savior is easily summed up here.
Most would agree, especially in the context of the Mac, that one of the problems for Blu-Ray is that DVD is good enough, that streaming from Netflix is good enough. If that's the main problem, I don't see 4K faring any better.
Much like in music, we've got the masses consuming low quality "good enough" media and then a small selection of wonks insisting on high quality. Blu-Ray is successful, at 1/3 of the disc market, but we're all talking about iTunes and Netflix here and especially in Apple's world view where "good enough" seems to be on the company masthead. A new standard requiring new equipment purchases, new display purchases, new TV purchases, and some form of delivery (or multiple forms including a future optical format), well, I don't see it exactly burning up the market and appealing to the "good enough" crowd any more than what's already on the market with equipment they already own or can buy cheaply.
I'm a technology wonk, and I have a 2560x1600 30" display, and I can't even watch a Blu-Ray on it (in OSX, at least). I'll keep an open mind for 4K when/if I see it, and the new TV I'll have to buy, and the new media format(s) that will be required to enjoy it.
But let's take a stroll down memory lane for the adoption of HD. I saw it in a lab at Bellcore in 1990. The first sets showed up, outrageously priced, somewhere around 1998-1999. Using a VGA display and an OTA antenna, I pulled in the very limited network programming around 1999-2000, back when only a few hours of HD programming were available per week. I think I watched the 2000 Super Bowl over the air. The destruction of the WTC during the 9/11 attacks wrecked OTA HD viewing in NYC as all the HD antennae were on the towers. My cable co. didn't start providing any HD programming for years after that, and only a handfull of channels at first. A prepackaged HD format didn't start percolating until 2004-2005 and then the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD war. Unless you want to count D-VHS, which I suppose you could.
So let's start the clock for 4K in that "lab" phase now, we may see something that doesn't cost as much as a small car by 2020. And given the bitrates of 1080p Blu-Ray can reach 50-60 megabits, let's assume 4x that and allow for a more efficient codec than H.264 in the future and make it only 2x, and we probably are looking at another physical format beyond Blu-Ray. As far as OTA delivery, the bandwidth already can't handle 1080p so what do we do, another repartitioning of space, a new standard past ATSC, a new transmission codec, more dealing with the FCC for spectrum? Good luck.
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Then so's my relationship with Apple. And I spent $20,000 last year alone.
Never again.
I don't even bother to post here anymore.
And I'm the tip of the pro iceberg.
But Apple knows better.
I got to see the RED RAY work at NAB. The future is 4K and possibly higher
Shall we just assume right off the bat that Apple won't support that either?
Then so's my relationship with Apple. And I spent $20,000 last year alone.
Never again.
I don't even bother to post here anymore.
And I'm the tip of the pro iceberg.
But Apple knows better.
How many years are you going to say last year then never again.
Ba Ha Ha!
iMacs have been pushed as the all-in-one media device in places like dorm rooms. By Apple itself. Not to mention folks like ElGato who make TV tuners and DVRs for the Mac. I doubt there's been a single dorm room in the country in the past decade that has had a computer and a television and a boombox.
Then there's the Home Theater PC (HTPC) movement, which Apple alludes to in its own advertising for the Mac Mini (see a few posts back). Indeed, if the Mac Mini had Blu-Ray support it would be a sleek, sexy HTPC.
Well, the 27" iMac (as well as the 27" and 30" Cinema Displays) are 2560x1600 yet there's not even an option for Blu-Ray there. In fact, you can't watch a Blu-Ray on any mac, including a 27" iMac or a 30" Cinema Display or a Mac Mini hooked up to a 73" plasma.
The 17" MacBook Pro and the 21" iMac have 1920x1080 displays -- can't watch a Blu-Ray there either.
At this point it's clear; I've come to accept that today's Apple is not the Apple of the past that pioneered high-end media production and consumption -- today's Apple is the "good enough iToy and supporting ecosystem" Apple. Today's Apple is the iTunes store(s) Apple.
As a HTPC enthusiast (no other device can do everything as a HTPC can) I also accept that an Apple product will never be able to drive my system, since they don't support Blu-Ray and all but one model lack HDMI and multichannel audio.
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You can assume all you want, I assume nothing until its official. I for one know that the REDRAY is an official working product and presently working with R3D files
I would still need a separate BD player because my Mini lacks an internal optical drive and I like it that way not to mention the extra storage capacity. And I still prefer separate AV components - I am a Denon guy.
That's irrelevant. As the average avid audio/videophile would still prefer HDMI or Optical over anything else, to enjoy its media at the best quality possible. I'm surprised that you are putting your Macs on a golden plate, without benefit from their "cutting-edge" built-in technology (doesn't the Mini have an HDMI port??).
Looks like it's time to update that old C2D and get an i5/i7 (some Mac users told me that the i5/i7 processors are very fast and RECOMMENDED for browsing MacForums rumors and slap people that care about quality).
Apple's lack of Blu Ray support is purely from a profitability perspective. They want you to buy their overpriced POS 720p videos off iTunes. No thanks, Ill stick with Blu Ray.
Just to say, the PS3 does bitstream HD audio (Dolby TrueHD and DTS HDMA) since the slim models (the old fats don't).
Actually, audiophiles would prefer balanced audio connections (for both digital and analog) with electrical conductors instead of optical. Esp the cheesy SPDIF optical that we've been forced to use for decades.
HDMI is tolerated for its 8 channel 24/192 capability, along with the video. Barely.
It doesn't really matter. With a good processor, which the older models have, nothing is lost or altered in the old process of converting to LPCM. The LPCM then transfers the full HD audio data to the receiver/processor. About the only real detriment is that your audio processor will not show "Dolby" or whatever name.
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Yes, we can say that "Bigger is Better", but this assumes that there's no other trade-offs.
YMMV on the significance of each, but we do know that bigger MBP laptops are generally more expensive, and bigger/heavier/bulkier ... as well as other potential factors (such as its size versus the room on a commercial airline flight to open up the laptop to conduct work).
This is probably less of an issue for well-resourced traveling pros whose budget doesn't blink at the expense (and other hassles) of having an additional 50lb pelican gear case (or two) in checked baggage.
But for a solo (or small team, or prosumer) on a less generous budget, particularly in the current economy, and particularly if one's criteria is to limit yourself to the "what I can myself lift & carry-on" paradigm, then shaving a pound off with a smaller laptop may allow carrying an extra lens, or a second pair of shoes, etc. Ultimately, it comes down to the use case and that individual's preferences for trade-offs.
Much like the best camera is the one you have with you, it philisophically doesn't do much good to have a wonderful 17" laptop if the types of trips that one takes means that it never makes the cut and thus gets left behind at home...
...thus, if one 'never' needs to burn an optical disk while on the road, the question of budgeting that real estate inside a mobile laptop keeps on coming up, regardless of if we're talking about the resolution being for DVD or Blu-Ray, etc.
-hh
I am not sure how a BD drive would fit in my Mini server given my configuration sans optical drive. Regardless, it would still be "a sleek, sexy HTPC."
Looks like it's time to update that old C2D and get an i5/i7 (some Mac users told me that the i5/i7 processors are very fast and RECOMMENDED for browsing MacForums rumors and slap people that care about quality).
I use my Macs to front end to my Linux boxes. I didn't realize SSH in Terminal will be faster with i5/i7? My PHP/MySQL coding should go much faster now. Thanks for the recommendation!
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Unfortunately for Apple, iTunes is not going to be replacing physical media anytime soon though. In my view they would be better supporting Blu-ray now, so that iTunes becomes the natural step once everyone can easily get their video online.
That's an argument against having optical drives as standard altogether, not particularly just Blu-ray ones. The point is it's daft that we can't watch a Blu-ray on a standard mac if we want to. Apple should just give us the option.
This common misconception has cropped up lots in this thread - It's not that someone would specifically buy or take a laptop just to watch Blu-ray discs (or DVDs for that matter), it's that if they have lots of Blu-rays, and they also have a computer that is perfectly capable of playing those BDs, it's silly that it is prevented from doing so because of Apple trying to force people towards iTunes.
They are far from ubiquitous, and typically add to the cost of the title you buy. The industry should recognise how ridiculous the whole thing is and just allow people to rip legally DVDs and Blu-rays, but they won't because they're greedy.
A) If you're sat at your desk the viewing distance means you get the benefit of Blu-ray over DVD on just about any normal mac. 1080p is not required for an increase in quality over DVD btw, just a display of more than 480p/576p(PAL). And for an increase over 720p, again, a display of anything over that is giving you more pixels. Even the 11 inch MacBook Air is better than 720p.
B) If the Mac Mini (or any mac really...but the Mini makes the most sense) was attached to a big TV it would benefit hugely.
On a slight tangent, isn't it a joke that Apple only sells 720p videos in iTunes but offers up 1080p files on its movie trailers site? Bizarre.
Well, you may be right, and I don't doubt that Apple uses something similar to your list of arguments (especially the iTunes stuff), but it sucks.
Of course Blu-ray has come to my Mac Pro, I just wish Apple would support movie playback in Mac OS X.
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so find a slot loading bluray drive that will fit inside the macbook pro and maybe you will see why apple does not give you the option... they don't even exist! Not really a misconception anymore eh?
Firstly, the misconception I referred to was concerning the idea that anyone would buy a mac (laptop or otherwise) purely to watch Blu-ray discs (if such a thing were possible with an out-of-the-box mac). That is a misconception, and isn't addressed by your point. It's just that time and again in this thread we have seen arguments like 'who wants to watch a BD on a tiny laptop screen' as if that covers every reason for supporting Blu-ray movie playback.
Your point, that Apple don't give any mac users the ability to playback Blu-ray movies because they can't cram a slot-loading Blu-ray drive into the MacBook Pro doesn't really make too much sense (although that doesn't preclude Apple from using the same logic, I'll grant you!).
Even if we ignore the Mac Pro and iMac and Mac Mini for a moment, consider the MacBook Air. Which has no optical drive. And yet, magically, Apple have been able to sell a USB DVD±RW drive to go with it for people who want it. There are slim slot-loading drives out there that would mean an external BD drive could be no thicker than the DVD one Apple sells.
So, there we have a clear example of Apple providing the option for an optical drive to a machine that can't house it internally. Just not one that supports Blu-ray discs - but I think most of us understand it's not a technical issue, it's a strategic one.
He is so unbelievable. Blu-ray's awesome. How could he think that way?
I guess, blu-ray lovers shouldn't go after mac's then.
Not only Blu-Ray lovers, but also professionals too (seeing the "terrible" Blu-Ray support in the FCS 3 suite).
There's Adobe Encore & Sony Blu-Print that support DTS-HD/TrueHD audio files out of the box, and Apple still relies on damn-old "more than enough" AC3. A professional that records/master 24-bit audio would want to preserve the audio quality intact of his recordings, instead of downmixing the recording and put some mastering "fixes".
There are DTS-HD/Dolby software encoders for the Mac that could had easily get the job done in a easy way if Apple would had integrated support for these codecs in FCS3. Instead, a professional (who maybe doesn't want to hear about Windows/Bootcamp, nor even Adobe Encore), is faced with the "trouble" of how can he get his recordings delivered losslessly. And in the meantime, he has "wasted" more moneys in software/Blu-Ray drives to get a simple task done.
So, you see. The problem is not only the lack of playback software/Blu-Ray drives. But it's also the "creation/authoring" part that gets touched. And the whole "expensiveness" of a Mac, at this point of time, is not even worth it for professionals/studios.
And these, to me, are all signs that Apple is slowly leaving that "Prosumer" market that has made them "pioneers of high-end" throughout the years.
My point about the PS3 is that it internally decodes everything to PCM instead of passing it to the receiver unmolested. If you have a good receiver, you want the receiver to do the decoding.
the other guy said it won't happen for several reasons, one of which being the size of the devices, you claimed that that was a misconception, which it is not.
So if it's not a good argument, you think apple should make the macbook and macbook pro thicker to include a bluray drive?
The smallest bluray drive out right now is 12.5mm which would not fit inside the current macbooks, macbook pros, macbook airs, mac minis... it may fit inside the current imacs, but i doubt it as it as im pretty sure it uses the same superdrive found in all of the other macs and there probably isn't much room in there for a bigger one, but maybe there is.
Regardless, if you want an external bluray drive, go buy one, your mac will play blurays just fine off of it so that's a dumb argument.
I don't see how you can say it's not a technical issue when the only mac that could support a bluray drive is the macpro... all other macs would need to be redesigned to support bluray and apple simply doesn't care... the sooner you guys understand that is the sooner you'll see that apple is not going to include a bluray drive.
Also note slot loading bluray drive here is $529
http://fastmac.com/slim_bluray.php
even this one is $550 and there is no way it would fit inside these mac portables
http://www.amazon.com/DIGISTOR-Blu-ray-Burner-Slot-Load-Drive/dp/B002SYRUCW
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