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yep so lets just keep repeating the same arguments over and over again, and then when someone comes in and says, "idk why apple doesn't support bluray" we can just rinse and repeat even more.... this thread has over 5,900 posts and has been going for almost a year, if you want to discuss it at least add something to the conversation rather than the generic "i don't understand why apple doesn't give us the option" :rolleyes:

it's already been discussed, add something new if you're going to chime in...

Teapot, kettle, and all that...

and lo! I am guilty of it myself!

come on, 6000 posts!
 
it was based off something i read... you've never been told false information in your life? As soon as i was proven wrong i apologized for the wrong info and admitted that it would fit... what's so high and mighty about that?

"sorry i don't have every mac ever made to test what size drives fit in it", is an apology? Oh ok then. I didn't take it as such, I just saw you making an excuse, not an apology. Apology accepted!

I never said you couldn't criticize them, but why do you buy their computers if you want bluray so bad?

Well I need a computer, I prefer the Mac OS in general, which is why I buy Macs. But I guess your question is, why do I buy Macs since they don't contain BD drives or support BD movie playback.

It wasn't an issue in 2008 when I bought my latest Mac. Simple. Now in 2011, well it might be an issue since BD has become the de-facto optical disc standard. No online store exists in my country to buy or rent movies (I have only 120 GB monthly download quota anyway), I need a larger capacity optical drive for backup purposes (I back up first to an HD, but keep a secondary optical backup, since this is my life in pictures and video we're talking about) and finally since there already is an optical drive in the Mac it only stands to reason that it should be the most current one.

Well actually, YOUR OPINION, is wrong, don't treat it as fact...

Original Mac Pro was released on August 7, 2006. Then Apple added a 3.0ghz quad core processor as an option on April 4, 2007... approximately 8 months. The next was released January 8, 2008, about 9 months later. After that Apple released an update on March 3, 2009; this was the longest interval between a refresh at 14 months. Then another refresh was released December 4, 2009... 9 months later. The next refresh occurred on August 9, 2010... 8 months later. We are now in May of 2011... 9 months later, awaiting a refresh.

So in fact all refreshes have occurred around the 9 month mark with the exception of one refresh. And they are not getting updated less frequently... it's been pretty consistent. Keep your opinions to yourself troll!

Not really; these are the dates the Mac Pro was upgraded, reflected by the machine model numbers:

August 7th 2006 (machine model number: MacPro1,1), then 8 months pass and in april 4th 2007 the next upgrade is presented (MacPro2,1), then 9 months pass and in January 8th 2008 the next upgrade is presented (MacPro3,1), then 14 months pass and in March 3rd of 2009 the next upgrade is presented (MacPro4,1) and finally 18 months pass and in August of 2010 the latest upgrade is shipping (MacPro5,1).

There was never a December 4th 2009 upgrade, only an addition of a 3.33 GHz *quad* core into the Early 2009 Nehalem line. Top of that line was, before and after the introduction of the 3.33 GHz quad, the 2.26 GHz *eight* core Mac Pro. Nothing was upgraded, thus no upgrade, no new top-of-the-line Mac Pro, nor new Apple machine model number.

Not even this very website mentions this as an upgrade to the Mac Pro, (naturally) and it is very disingenuous to maintain that it was, since it just added a mid-range Mac Pro and did nothing to actually *upgrade* the line.

So 8 months, 9 months, 14 months and 18 months between actual upgrades of the Mac Pro. Yes I see a pattern here... I say we can expect the next Mac Pro in 2012 (if ever), but you would maintain that they get an upgrade on average every nine months.... which is nonsense. Then there should be a MacPro6,1 announcement just this month or the next.

So no, this is not my opinion, this is fact. And again, you're wrong. Can I get another "sorry but I can't know every single thing that happens" half-hearted pseudo-apology? Aw-shucks.
 
Not really; these are the dates the Mac Pro was upgraded, reflected by the machine model numbers:

August 7th 2006 (machine model number: MacPro1,1), then 8 months pass and in april 4th 2007 the next upgrade is presented (MacPro2,1), then 9 months pass and in January 8th 2008 the next upgrade is presented (MacPro3,1), then 14 months pass and in March 3rd of 2009 the next upgrade is presented (MacPro4,1) and finally 18 months pass and in August of 2010 the latest upgrade is shipping (MacPro5,1).

There was never a December 4th 2009 upgrade, only an addition of a 3.33 GHz *quad* core into the Early 2009 Nehalem line. Top of that line was, before and after the introduction of the 3.33 GHz quad, the 2.26 GHz *eight* core Mac Pro. Nothing was upgraded, thus no upgrade, no new top-of-the-line Mac Pro, nor new Apple machine model number.

Not even this very website mentions this as an upgrade to the Mac Pro, (naturally) and it is very disingenuous to maintain that it was, since it just added a mid-range Mac Pro and did nothing to actually *upgrade* the line.

So 8 months, 9 months, 14 months and 18 months between actual upgrades of the Mac Pro. Yes I see a pattern here... I say we can expect the next Mac Pro in 2012 (if ever), but you would maintain that they get an upgrade on average every nine months.... which is nonsense. Then there should be a MacPro6,1 announcement just this month or the next.

So no, this is not my opinion, this is fact. And again, you're wrong. Can I get another "sorry but I can't know every single thing that happens" half-hearted pseudo-apology? Aw-shucks.

Model Mid 2006[28] Early 2008[29] Early 2009[30] Mid 2010[31] Release date August 7, 2006
April 4, 2007 Optional 3.0 GHz Quad-core Xeon "Clovertown" January 8, 2008 March 3, 2009
December 4, 2009 Optional 3.33 GHz Quad-core Xeon "Bloomfield" August 9, 2010 Model Numbers MA356*/A MA970*/A MB871*/A MB535*/A MC560*/A MC250*/A MC561*/A Machine Model MacPro1,1
MacPro2,1 Optional 3.0 GHz Quad-core Xeon "Clovertown" MacPro3,1 MacPro4,1 MacPro5,1

edit - that copied across poorly, it's the release chart on wikipedia...

It's more to point out that sometimes people make mistakes, including you so don't try to rip me for saying it wouldn't fit inside the imac... that's what i read, when proven wrong i didn't continue to argue it so im not sure why you're still even bringing it up?

so with that logic then the april 4, 2007 upgrade shouldn't count because all it did was add an optional 3.0 ghz quad core, much like the december 4, 2009 upgrade added a 3.3 ghz quad core..
 
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so with that logic then the april 4, 2007 upgrade shouldn't count because all it did was add an optional 3.0 ghz quad core, much like the december 4, 2009 upgrade added a 3.3 ghz quad core..

As the earlier post said, the April 2007 change upgraded the model number from MacPro1,1 to MacPro2,1.

The earlier post was focussed on these hardware ID changes, not the relative importance of the spec changes.
 
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As the earlier post said, the April 2007 change upgraded the model number from MacPro1,1 to MacPro2,1.

The earlier post was focussed on these hardware ID changes, not the relative importance of the spec changes.
so because apple didn't decide to change the model number in the later update but they did in the first update (even though they both just added an extra processor) the second update doesn't count? Explain how that makes sense? Apple added new processors UPDATING the options you could chose from both times...
 
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so because apple didn't decide to change the model number in the later update but they did in the first update (even though they both just added an extra processor) the second update doesn't count? Explain how that makes sense? Apple added new processors UPDATING the options you could chose from both times...

Adding a BTO option to the Apple online store without any hardware changes does not make it a hardware update.

Plugging a different SKU CPU into the socket doesn't make it different hardware.
 
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Adding a BTO option to the Apple online store without any hardware changes does not make it a hardware update.

Plugging a different SKU CPU into the socket doesn't make it different hardware.

so what did the first update add besides a different processor? (1,1 and 2,1)
 
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It's more to point out that sometimes people make mistakes, including you so don't try to rip me for saying it wouldn't fit inside the imac... that's what i read, when proven wrong i didn't continue to argue it so im not sure why you're still even bringing it up?

Well, consider it behind us then. We both know that a BD drive can easily enough be put in a Mac Pro, an iMac or a Mac mini.

so with that logic then the april 4, 2007 upgrade shouldn't count because all it did was add an optional 3.0 ghz quad core, much like the december 4, 2009 upgrade added a 3.3 ghz quad core..

The April 4th 2007 introduced 8-core Mac Pro.

https://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/04/apple-releases-8-core-mac-pro/

You can understand that it doesn't compare to a mid-range addition to an already established line, as the December 4th 2009 release was. That was an addition to the already established line introduced in December 2009, not an upgrade - since the addition wasn't better than the top-of-the-line March 3rd 2009 models and in fact shared all other hardware with them. Hence not an upgrade, but a BTO addition, that should perhaps been released March 3th 2009 with the rest.

For whatever reason, Apple couldn't or wouldn't release this model along with it's March 3rd brethern. It hardly matters why there was this odd delay between these siblings, but nobody can claim that this addition was an upgrade.

edit: For instance if Apple now released a 2.8 GHz dual-quad this month, that would not be any more an upgrade than the December 3rd addition of 2009, since the top of the line would still be the 2.93 GHz dual-six core machine and the "new" hypothetical 2.8 GHz machine would share all other hardware with its siblings.
 
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Let's all try and keep it civil shall we? No need to call names or throw insults. (Except maybe at Apple for not supporting Blu-ray properly, but they can take it. ;) )

Windows NT "at the time" had full protected memory and preemptive multitasking - so I think that we disagree on the meaning of "nicer". [....]

Well sure, I can't think of a time when Windows didn't have some advantages over Mac OS (and vice-versa), 'tis just personal preference. I preferred the Amiga over either of them until about 1998 to be honest.
 
Enough for Apple to update the major model number - which is what the post was claiming.

the only difference is the processor, did you ever think that maybe since this was in 2006, apple decided to use a new model number, but later decided that small of an update didn't require a new model number? the significance of both updates is the exact same, very minimal... just because one got a new model number means nothing, they were both updates to the mac pro line.

Also i'm going off the original post in a different thread, which mentions nothing about model numbers so stop defending your little pal so much my goodness, i think he could speak for himself....

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1054116?threadID=1054116
 
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Well, consider it behind us then. We both know that a BD drive can easily enough be put in a Mac Pro, an iMac or a Mac mini.



The April 4th 2007 introduced 8-core Mac Pro.

https://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/04/apple-releases-8-core-mac-pro/

You can understand that it doesn't compare to a mid-range addition to an already established line, as the December 4th 2009 release was. That was an addition to the already established line introduced in December 2009, not an upgrade - since the addition wasn't better than the top-of-the-line March 3rd 2009 models and in fact shared all other hardware with them. Hence not an upgrade, but a BTO addition, that should perhaps been released March 3th 2009 with the rest.

For whatever reason, Apple couldn't or wouldn't release this model along with it's March 3rd brethern. It hardly matters why there was this odd delay between these siblings, but nobody can claim that this addition was an upgrade.

edit: For instance if Apple now released a 2.8 GHz dual-quad this month, that would not be any more an upgrade than the December 3rd addition of 2009, since the top of the line would still be the 2.93 GHz dual-six core machine and the "new" hypothetical 2.8 GHz machine would share all other hardware with its siblings.
so i guess it comes down to if you want to use the word upGRADE, or upDATE... argument over semantics, and honestly a pointless one, was just trying to point out you don't have to rip someone who made a mistake...

yeah i read that the 12.7mm bluray drives wouldn't fit, you proved me wrong, never did i continue to argue it.

And if you were upset with the snarkyness of my apology, perhaps you shouldn't have been so quick to jump on my back when i was just trying to discuss it with you. If you don't want people responding to you like that, don't do it to them first.
 
so i guess it comes down to if you want to use the word upGRADE, or upDATE... argument over semantics,

Sorry, no not at all. I don't make any particular differentiation between "upgrade" and "update", though I prefer to use the former.

There was neither an upgrade nor an update to the Mac Pro in December 2009. Only the addition of a BTO mid-range CPU in the existing models. Not a top-range, which would have at least been possible to acknowledge as a minor upgrade, in all fairness. But not the addition of a mid-range model, no.

Why you chose to try to make a point out of this, I don't know (perhaps once again you should have read more on the subject) - I'll surely make some mistakes in the future, but this was not one. Like the BD drive fitting in an iMac.

While the matter of upgrades can be more subjective than whether a BD drive fits in a certain machine or not, there isn't anyone claiming the Dec. 2009 Mac Pro addition was an upgrade. Not Apple, not Macrumors, not even Wikipedia (though they don't seem to acknowledge the 8-core as an upgrade, but then again, don't always put your stock in Wikipedia) - in other words, you're just about the only person who thinks that the Mac Pro was upgraded in Dec. 2009 and good for you! You're still completely wrong (since like before, you're opinions are not facts), and since Apple makes those things, I think I'll take their word for what constitutes an upgrade and what does not. Besides, Apple's definition makes logical sense. Your's, less so.
 
Sorry, no not at all. I don't make any particular differentiation between "upgrade" and "update", though I prefer to use the former.

There was neither an upgrade nor an update to the Mac Pro in December 2009. Only the addition of a BTO mid-range CPU in the existing models. Not a top-range, which would have at least been possible to acknowledge as a minor upgrade, in all fairness. But not the addition of a mid-range model, no.

Why you chose to try to make a point out of this, I don't know (perhaps once again you should have read more on the subject) - I'll surely make some mistakes in the future, but this was not one. Like the BD drive fitting in an iMac.

While the matter of upgrades can be more subjective than whether a BD drive fits in a certain machine or not, there isn't anyone claiming the Dec. 2009 Mac Pro addition was an upgrade. Not Apple, not Macrumors, not even Wikipedia (though they don't seem to acknowledge the 8-core as an upgrade, but then again, don't always put your stock in Wikipedia) - in other words, you're just about the only person who thinks that the Mac Pro was upgraded in Dec. 2009 and good for you! You're still completely wrong (since like before, you're opinions are not facts), and since Apple makes those things, I think I'll take their word for what constitutes an upgrade and what does not.

ummm adding a new processor is definitely an UPDATE to a product, you couldn't get it in november of 2009, but you could in december because the product was UPDATED to include a new processor, whether it's the top of the line processor or not is irrelevant, it was updated with a new processor.

an update does not necessarily mean it has to be the addition of the best processor, an upgrade would dictate adding better features
 
ummm adding a new processor is definitely an UPDATE to a product, you couldn't get it in november of 2009, but you could in december because the product was UPDATED to include a new processor, whether it's the top of the line processor or not is irrelevant, it was updated with a new processor.

an update does not necessarily mean it has to be the addition of the best processor, an upgrade would dictate adding better features

So you're the one going to argue semantics? Ironic (look it up)

Keep in mind, I never wrote anything about "updates", not in your definition or any other kind. You could argue that the dec. 2009 release of a BTO was an update, but that's neither here nor there. If it makes you feel better, then using your definition above, then it could have been called an update to the early 2009 line. Like adding Blu-ray support to the Mac Pro would be categorized.

As I told you before, and Apple itself agrees with me, there was no dec. 2009 upgrade.

I don't see a reason to elaborate on that any further, since both the facts of the dec. 2009 release and Apple agree with me. This is not my opinion.

*** on topic again: ***

My opinion is that Apple should offer Blu-ray drives as BTO to their desktop Macs (as a sort of an update, if you will) and I would of course prefer full Mac OS X support of BD as well, instead of this limited support and infantile approach Apple has to BD (i.e. namecalling)

My opinion is based on the following: Adding full BD support harms no one and makes more than a few happy, professionals and laymen alike. The Macintosh hardware already supports BD, HDCP etc. and the only thing missing is OS support and the drive itself. Both well within the abilities of Apple (obviously) and quite realistic.

If Apple doesn't want to offer the BD drives or wants to drop all opticals from their Macs, that's still no reason not to support BD playback. People can have their optical-free Mac and if so inclined buy a BD drive, hook it up and play the video.

There is no rational reason for not supporting BD on the OS level. That "optical is dead, don't live in the past" (as stupid as that argument is) isn't even a reason not to support the thing on the Mac even if it *were* true.

To have BTO BD drive in Macs and full OS support of the format would be great (and probably very popular), but at least OS support should be offered - in the "world's most advanced operating system". I roll my eyes at you Apple.
 
you really failed to comprehend his post imo...

1. how do you know it would only cost $70 or $100 to upgrade the superdrive to bluray? You talk about apple being able to fund the development of a 9.5mm drive... where did you add the cost for R&D? What about the money to develop software for reading blurays and writing to them? How about if the engineers have to redesign insides of the mbp to get the drive to fit? What about testing the device? What about bluray licensing fees? Surely you can't just add the price of a bluray drive and expect that apple be able to upgrade the macs for that price.

2.I'll agree about iPads/iPhones, but again you say they would be able to develop a 9.5mm bluray drive.. what if that drive ends up costing them $200 a piece, then they have to also add profit margin, people are looking at potentially $300-$400 to add bluray, how many would be willing to pay that price? I know we don't have the research data or analysts to determine that.

YOU understand 720p, you also use the internet, read tech forums and blogs, etc. How about the 35 year old mother down the street who is more concerned about working for a living and making sure her kids get to school and have food to eat? How much time do you think she spends reading technology forums to make sure she knows what the latest and greatest coming out is? How about peoples parents, or grandparents... you fail to realize there are some people who don't even know how to use a computer, some who have never heard of bluray, some who still don't own an hdtv, some who can't afford the technology, some who don't care, etc.... what motivation do you think those people have to learn about 720p vs 1080p... yeah absolutely NONE. Hop outside your bubble and you will realize there are a lot more people NOT in the know than there are tech nerds running around.

1. R and D for blu ray would cost one heck of a lot less than it took for thunderbolt. They could still fit it in the imac or mac pro. If apple tried they could make it smaller and then license the tech to other companies.

I'm sorry if I've offended you. That was my personal experience and opinion, especially after a 7 year old asked what the resolution on my computer was. Otherwise, 720p is not really a hard concept to understand. it may be unnecessary for many but really its about as complicated as GB or Ghz. By the way, I don't own a hdtv either. Got a 15 year old sony.
 
So you're the one going to argue semantics? Ironic (look it up)

Keep in mind, I never wrote anything about "updates", not in your definition or any other kind. You could argue that the dec. 2009 release of a BTO was an update, but that's neither here nor there. If it makes you feel better, then using your definition above, then it could have been called an update to the early 2009 line. Like adding Blu-ray support to the Mac Pro would be categorized.

As I told you before, and Apple itself agrees with me, there was no dec. 2009 upgrade.

I don't see a reason to elaborate on that any further, since both the facts of the dec. 2009 release and Apple agree with me. This is not my opinion.

*** on topic again: ***

My opinion is that Apple should offer Blu-ray drives as BTO to their desktop Macs (as a sort of an update, if you will) and I would of course prefer full Mac OS X support of BD as well, instead of this limited support and infantile approach Apple has to BD (i.e. namecalling)

My opinion is based on the following: Adding full BD support harms no one and makes more than a few happy, professionals and laymen alike. The Macintosh hardware already supports BD, HDCP etc. and the only thing missing is OS support and the drive itself. Both well within the abilities of Apple (obviously) and quite realistic.

If Apple doesn't want to offer the BD drives or wants to drop all opticals from their Macs, that's still no reason not to support BD playback. People can have their optical-free Mac and if so inclined buy a BD drive, hook it up and play the video.

There is no rational reason for not supporting BD on the OS level. That "optical is dead, don't live in the past" (as stupid as that argument is) isn't even a reason not to support the thing on the Mac even if it *were* true.

To have BTO BD drive in Macs and full OS support of the format would be great (and probably very popular), but at least OS support should be offered - in the "world's most advanced operating system". I roll my eyes at you Apple.

Wow.. are you three married? :)

First, let me point out that you base your opinion on more of your opinions, so I don't see how that substantiates your first opinion any further. It does clarify your thought process though which aides in understanding your point.

My opinion is based on the following: Adding full BD support harms no one and makes more than a few happy, professionals and laymen alike.

This statement is presented or positioned as fact, which it is not. Let me break this apart to address the relevant part of the compound statement. Your opinion that BD support harms no one is false. It does harm competing formats, such as HD-DVD, and iTunes downloads. Apple is a business that has it's principle responsibility to it's shareholders. If Apple added support for BD and shipped Mac's with BD drives they would be reducing their own sales of iTunes content and increasing their expenses for BD licenses. As others have previously pointed out this would be a stupid business decision. As a shareholder of Apple I agree with Steve's assessment of BD as being "a bag of hurt" for Apple.

There is no rational reason for not supporting BD on the OS level.

The above passage points out the principle, and very rational, reason for not supporting BD on Mac's.

I would prefer Apple continue doing what they have been trying to do and improve digital downloads; Rather than compete with themselves and increase their expenses while doing so. There are several areas that need to be addressed with digital downloads.

The first of which is the licensing terms for content. This is where the argument against DRM is flawed. The problem with DRM was not DRM it's self, it was that the music industry (RIAA) viewed DRM solely as a way to limit use of downloaded music. Had they embraced iTunes and other digital downloads with the benefits of DRM we would be in a drastically different place right now in terms of iTunes. With DRM Apple could centrally store our licenses and allow us to re-download our purchases. I believe this alone would greatly increase the adoption of DLC vs physical mediums. Hopefully the soon to be unveiled MobileMe / iTunes upgrade will finally bring us this ability. Rumors of Apple reaching agreements with content providers to enable this support have recently begun making their rounds. This would allow Apple to store a single master copy of a work and an individuals license for that work would be stored in their iTunes / Apple ID account. If true, this would eliminate the need to back up an iTunes library. AV media would then work much like Apple's App Store app's. If I restore my Mac Pro, I can login to the Mac App Store and re-download all my purchased app's. For me this is the sole reason I currently do not buy movies or TV shows in iTunes. A feature length movie at 720p from iTunes is in the ballpark of 700Mb. If I have a collection of 60 movies that is ~41Gb of content I need to back up. This eliminates the connivence of digital downloads for me.

The second thing that should be addressed is that of content quality. I believe Apple already has solved this issue pending the prior issue is resolved. There are various factors that impact Apple's decision for which resolution to offer video and what bit-rate to offer audio in. Speed of download is one primary reason Apple has given for offering 720p. Size of file for storage (which the previous issue would eliminate), Streaming vs Buffer & Download are a couple others that come to mind. I believe Apple has solved this previously with their HTTP Streaming technology. This technology allows them to host multiple resolutions & various audio tracks that can be scaled based on connection factors. If Apple can pair this with iTunes current buffer & download delivery they would resolve most of the issues with DLC. An individual could purchase a movie on their iPhone 4 which would stream a 960 x 640 version and scale down to a 480 x 320 version should my connection slow. This purchase could automatically be downloaded to my iTunes library and the play head position could be synced so when I arrive home I can seamlessly finish watching the movie on my 50" via my AppleTV @ 1080p. (yes I know that would need new hardware... like the A5?? ;).

Note: I also have yet to purchase an AppleTV due to these same issues. Should the new MobileMe / iTunes eliminate the need to backup my content with the ability to re-download it I will definitely purchase an AppleTV and begin purchasing Movies through iTunes. I would also likely increase my iTunes music purchases if I could re-download them should I need to in the future. My current library is approaching 26Gb of music and backing up purchases is becoming cumbersome when spanning 6 DVD's.

Lastly I'll adress the storage aspect of BD support. I believe Apple will greatly improve the iDisc component of MobileMe and will function more like syncing your documents vs a network connected disk as it is now. I also have a feeling Apple will integrate TimeMachine support into MobileMe. If my content can be synced to the cloud like my mail, contacts, & calendar there will be little need for a physical backup medium requiring large capacities.
 
I don't see what's so wrong with Apple simply offering it as an option. Wouldn't kill them.
No, it wouldn't kill them. But might probably hurt iTS movie sales to some degree, because once people are used to BD quality, they won't spend any more money on DVD's or crappy iTunes downloads. At least none of my BD watching friends does anymore.

I recently bought an external LG BD burner for my Mac Pro.
Guess who won't be any longer in need to buy an Apple Superdrive for the soon to be purchased 11" Macbook Air?
Had my Mac Pro been available with an overpriced $200 internal BD burner option, Apple would have sold me both, the MP BD option plus an Air superdrive.
 
No. I never used my iBook for Final Cut, but i always used my "old" C2D 21" iMac (maxed out). And with the iMac i had beachballs with Adobe CS5, not with Final Cut (Final Cut, as well as other Apple programs, are probably the only ones that run smooth than the others.). I used my iBook mainly for everyday work, and for some little FCP projects.
Anyway, back to the topic, i was not saying that FCP sucks. For some people it can be great, and i already know that there are people such as Ridley Scott (see "Life In A Day") or the Cohen Brothers that use it. That doesn't change, however, the fact that most of the Hollywood industry relies on audio/video editing softwares such as: Steinberg Nuendo (check Steve Tushar, remix producer of Korn and many other artists), Fairlight, Pyramix, Digidesign Protools, Adobe CS, Avid Media, Sony Vegas, Cinema 4D, and thousand other softwares/plugins.
All these programs work flawlessly with ANY 3rd party plugins you throw at them, and with any audio/video format. And the price you pay for these suites are worth it. Specially for an independent producer who likes completeness, and doesn't want to pay extra $$$ to hire personnel to finish the job.
Apple has always made great softwares/products, but the problem is that they never managed to create a complete product, instead they always limit it. And all these "limitations" costs time and money to some people. 64 bits??
Yeah, Adobe, as well as many other software companies, have been on the 64-bit bandwagon since XP 64 came out, and they managed to provide a complete working product out-of-the-box. So, it's not really "big news".
When on Macs will be possible to work with over 25 VST's on a 24-bit/64-bit WAVE (P4 6xxx) recording on Protools, or with 3 "massive" 3D effects on After Effects/Cinema 4D, without any RAM-allocation limits, give me a call ;)
Until then i just stick with Windows 7 x64 (Adobe/Protools/Cinema 4D) + Linux Ubuntu (which has proven to have more "guts" than OS X, in terms of stability/speed/performance (no more Kernel Panics/Beachballs for me). ;)

Wasn't CS5, which launched last Spring, the first version of Premier Pro to be 64-bit? Also, Mac OS X has been available on 64-bit hardware since 2003, the same year it became practical for the PC world with the AMD64 architecture on the AMD Opteron CPU.

I think Alex Lindsey at the PixelCore broke it down best when he said he's excited that now there are three options for the video editing community: AVID for when you are working with enormous number of elements that only an AVID machine can provide, Adobe Premier when you like working in the Adobe software family, and Final Cut, with which Apple seems to be casting the largest net.

Ah, and we're back to adapters again. :(

I would much rather have a single adapter that can easily provides numerous alternative connections and uses versus a multitude of ports I will never need. Of course, and again, to each their own. ;)

As an aside, I highly recommend people read Thomas Arnold's piece at Home Media Magazine entitled "Disc Sales Enter Era of New Reality." He does a good job articulating what many are saying about the public's changing attitudes about purchasing media. LINK
 
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First, let me point out that you base your opinion on more of your opinions, so I don't see how that substantiates your first opinion any further. It does clarify your thought process though which aides in understanding your point.

At first glance, that might seem like a fair statement. But no, when one looks at it just a bit closer, it is evidently incredibly wrong and patronizing to boot. I'm not substantiating an opinion on the dates of Mac Pro upgrades. Apple does not state a dec. 2009 upgrade to the Mac Pro. That's that. No opinion. No judgement call. Nothing. Just that fact.

This statement is presented or positioned as fact, which it is not. Let me break this apart to address the relevant part of the compound statement. Your opinion that BD support harms no one is false. It does harm competing formats, such as HD-DVD, and iTunes downloads. Apple is a business that has it's principle responsibility to it's shareholders. If Apple added support for BD and shipped Mac's with BD drives they would be reducing their own sales of iTunes content and increasing their expenses for BD licenses. As others have previously pointed out this would be a stupid business decision. As a shareholder of Apple I agree with Steve's assessment of BD as being "a bag of hurt" for Apple.

What a load of utter drivel. Of course the statement of BD support as harming no one is presented as a fact. But you claim it hurts competing formats such as HD-DVD and iTunes downloads.

Well good news, you're wrong, they're not hurting. For one HD-DVD has been discontinued since February of 2008. It's viability can't be harmed any more than being discontinued, obviously. But you're right, that conceivably the very few people who actually buy video from iTS might stop doing that if Apple supported BD, just like the music store is suffering because of the CD support found in Macs. (sarcasm, high level)

Don't you have any connection to reason or reality? An honest question. Because these things aren't a zero-sum game, obviously. And then you bring up the utterly nihilistic and pathetically banal "Apple is a business", obviously without any personal knowledge of business or whether this would actually hurt or help Apple to make money. So you're saying that all your fretting against this is just based on your armchair-CEO opinion that Apple might lose money on the whole by supporting BD, despite *any* evidence to support that, especially in light of the practically *zero* negative effect CD or DVD support has had on Apple or the iTS. Yet *obviously* in direct competition.

As a shareholder of Apple myself, I'm ashamed to know that other shareholders (or at least they claim so on the internet) are this daft. HD-DVD? Wow that's a stupid comment. Honestly. (Really honestly) And yeah CD support doesn't harm the iTS one bit.

I can just as well claim, that as a shareholder, I want Apple to make more money by supporting BD and securing the high-end high-margin market of professional workstations. You want to waste Apple's money and resources for low-margin and non-starter download model, thus costing Apple money in the end, when Apple's only goal should be to make money for the shareholders. I base that on the fact that BD is much better established than downloads and the fact that more and more ISPs are introducing download quotas that nip this nascent download market of movies in the bud.

In short it is nonsense that HD-DVD (discontinued) is hurt by BD support and that iTS is hurt by supporting physical discs, as is evident by the fact that Apple already supports physical discs and can easily support the niche of downloaded content as well.

The above passage points out the principle, and very rational, reason for not supporting BD on Mac's.

Quite the contrary, in fact it was all to easy ripping it apart. You know how I did it? You see I just used the huge cracks in the "rationale" you put forth to get a good grip and then just tore. It. Apart. More importantly I demonstrated the logical fallacy that supporting BD would in any way hurt Apple itself, in fact it hurts Apple even more that their machines are *not* perceived as the choice machine for multimedia. For the same people who are interested in using computers for playing BDs are the people most likely to buy or rent movies on-line, simply by virtue of being the people who already accept or need to use computers in that manner. (i.e. using them as movie players)

I would prefer Apple continue doing what they have been trying to do and improve digital downloads; Rather than compete with themselves and increase their expenses while doing so. There are several areas that need to be addressed with digital downloads.

Your every single attempt of reasoning, is so ingrained with logical fallacies. Like this; to present that Apple *either* improve downloads or start competing with themselves. And the latter "option" is wrong in any case, as history demonstrates (i.e. CDs and the iTMS) In fact the movie rentals and sales have been a complete flop compared to the music selling business of the iTS (which is market leading), and yet that is the area where Apple has direct "competition" (as you claim), while it is doing very poorly on video (not even close to being market leading) and actually restricts and ostensibly tries to funnel users to buy their inferior 720p, low-bitrate videos.

Lastly I'll adress the storage aspect of BD support. I believe Apple will greatly improve the iDisc component of MobileMe and will function more like syncing your documents vs a network connected disk as it is now. I also have a feeling Apple will integrate TimeMachine support into MobileMe. If my content can be synced to the cloud like my mail, contacts, & calendar there will be little need for a physical backup medium requiring large capacities.

Dropbox is already lightyears ahead of iDisk in the short time of its existence, while iDisk has had a decade to become marginally useful (and is still put to shame by the young Dropbox). It seems that experience is being trumped by wishful thinking on your part. Either way, BD has the advantage of being a physical media, that cannot bet affected by magnetic fields and is light and durable, easy to replace and can already hold an acceptable amount of data with a roadmap of impressive proportions. (e.g. 100+ GB discs in the future)

I back up on a HD and disks. I also use Dropbox. Things I don't back up are movies, because I already have them backed up on DVDs/BDs when I buy them. This is another aspect of BD that people like to glance over, namely the fact that every movie you buy comes with a printed backup. It isn't mechanical, it isn't magnetic, but a completely static physical image, that if left in its cover, will never degrade. That saves the extra cost of buying HD for backup and/or online storage such as iDisk.

So for the most personal files and stuff I back up on Dropbox for free (2-3 GBs), the rest on dual HDs (mirroring) and DVDs (though I'd prefer BDs because then I can back up my iTunes collection that I bought on iTMS, all my photos on one, all my personal data on one) so in the end I need about 3-4 BDs to back all the most crucial data (the irreplaceable data) - while all my movies and purchased apps are already backed up on the most durable CDs/DVDs/BDs, the printed ones.
 
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...like most of the non-participants in this forum, I honestly don't care about Blue Ray and for me it's absolutely fine that Apple doesn't put any BR device in it's machine :D
 
Simply I need Blu-ray for my basement HT, it's 130" screen needs the best PQ possible.

For now, my 2 year old PS3 does the Blu-ray duties, my AppleTV in the family room is enough for the 42" HDTV there.

It is a pain in the butt to have blu-ray discs for the basement and not be able to use them in the family room, car, etc.
Blu-ray seems to be stagnating and not reaching critical %.
Even shelf space in Blockbuster/big box stores shows that.

Basement HT:
KFP%20Wushi%20Finger%20Hold1.jpg]Image


This is the PQ I like:
IMG_0819.JPG]Image


IMG_0825.JPG]Image


I was perusing some old posts and found your setup. Sweet theater! Makes my 92" screen seem like a 50". PS3 and basic $100 stand alone BD player takes care of my BD playback needs. I don't need BD in my Macs. Watching a movie on my 27" iMac is not what I call the theater experience, let alone a laptop. There's no need for me to hate Apple or Steve Jobs for not offering BD support. I bought my Macs to be reliable work machines, not for home theater use. I fully agree that "Blu-ray seems to be stagnating and not reaching critical %." I also have a Apple TV hooked up to a 50" plasma in another room and the 720p is really a non issue on that screen size although many disagree. I am going to show this to a buddy of mine that is starting the construction of his basement theater in his new home. Thanks for including the links in your signature to your theater project. Once again awesome setup!!
 
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So you're the one going to argue semantics? Ironic (look it up)

Keep in mind, I never wrote anything about "updates", not in your definition or any other kind. You could argue that the dec. 2009 release of a BTO was an update, but that's neither here nor there. If it makes you feel better, then using your definition above, then it could have been called an update to the early 2009 line. Like adding Blu-ray support to the Mac Pro would be categorized.

As I told you before, and Apple itself agrees with me, there was no dec. 2009 upgrade.

I don't see a reason to elaborate on that any further, since both the facts of the dec. 2009 release and Apple agree with me. This is not my opinion.

*** on topic again: ***

My opinion is that Apple should offer Blu-ray drives as BTO to their desktop Macs (as a sort of an update, if you will) and I would of course prefer full Mac OS X support of BD as well, instead of this limited support and infantile approach Apple has to BD (i.e. namecalling)

My opinion is based on the following: Adding full BD support harms no one and makes more than a few happy, professionals and laymen alike. The Macintosh hardware already supports BD, HDCP etc. and the only thing missing is OS support and the drive itself. Both well within the abilities of Apple (obviously) and quite realistic.

If Apple doesn't want to offer the BD drives or wants to drop all opticals from their Macs, that's still no reason not to support BD playback. People can have their optical-free Mac and if so inclined buy a BD drive, hook it up and play the video.

There is no rational reason for not supporting BD on the OS level. That "optical is dead, don't live in the past" (as stupid as that argument is) isn't even a reason not to support the thing on the Mac even if it *were* true.

To have BTO BD drive in Macs and full OS support of the format would be great (and probably very popular), but at least OS support should be offered - in the "world's most advanced operating system". I roll my eyes at you Apple.


I can say the same for the lack of proper HDMI support in Snow Leopard (specially with latest 10.6.6-10.6.7 updates).
On my Windows/Linux machine I can drive 3 monitors via HDMI (yes, i prefer HDMI, as it gives me a nice cystal-clear picture, and i don't have to buy a separate DVI/VGA adapter to use my monitors), whether on OS X it's just "a matter of luck".
Sometimes it works and it recognizes the display correctly (proper refresh rates, color scheme and Pixel Format (RGB/Ybcr), whether sometimes OS X refuses to "communicate" with the monitor. Tried with Windows 7 via Bootcamp, and it worked out-of-the-box.
I won't tell you every single detail about my "frustrations" with OS X (specially with Snow Leopard. Working with Tiger/Leopard was a total different story). But suffice to say that when in 2011 an OS still can't handle an HDMI connection with an external monitor is not "advanced", but "retarded". And HDMI has been around since 2007 or something.
What was Apple support answer to this "problem"?
"Sorry, but we do ONLY support HDMI connections with our AppleTV/MacMini products!".
Yeah, as soon as possible i run to the first AppleStore in town and shell out another few $$$ for a "crappy" locked-down AppleTV only to get my photography/video work done. These guys @ Apple really should just quit messing around with computers, and just give out OS X "for the masses". That way they will probably make more $$$ than by selling ovepriced "locked-down" old hardware. And people will finally have the choice to use OSX without wasting more $$$ than they would.
 
I was perusing some old posts and found your setup. Sweet theater! Makes my 92" screen seem like a 50".
(Repeated info.)
I am going to show this to a buddy of mine that is starting the construction of his basement theater in his new home. Thanks for including the links in your signature to your theater project. Once again awesome setup!!

Clicking on the first image of the 130" screen... it really, really looks photoshopped. The edges of the screen look blatantly inserted, and there seems to be a massive difference in noise everywhere except the screen. I don't think the image is legit.
KFP%20Wushi%20Finger%20Hold1.jpg%5DImage
 
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