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Love the way that all the zealots are congratulating Jobs for closing down their platform for them. I can't believe he thinks that iTunes movies are a viable alternative to blu-ray. I've bought a couple of iTunes movies & series and found that whilst in some instances the quality is very good, in others it is terrible - not even comparable to DVD. I won't be buying any more (I bought broken embraces, and the amount of chop in panning shots is terrible).

Luckily I have a "nice" Windows 7 box to watch Blu-Rays on, they look great on the HD TV. No jerk and chop there, just crisp, good looking movies. Mac OS X is currently a joke for watching media. It's a shame how apple's standards and philosophy have worsened since the 80's.
 
I can't believe Steve thinks iTunes downloads make up for the lack of BluRay in their computers when only a few countries have downloadable movies available on iTunes. Time to work a little bit on that?

I've never bought a BluRay disc in my life and we don't even have equipment to watch those, but I'd love to be able to pop one into my MacBook Pro to instantly enjoy crisp HD content with surround sound. That'd be extremely handy if I'm somewhere without internet connection (or, say, tethering my iPhone's connection).
 
Jobs just want every mac users to pay for movies from iTunes in order to increase apple's profits, not to buy Blu-ray discs from DVD stores. What he has said is nothing but an excuse, that's an obviously commercial tactic.
Thank you dudes, Analysis is over!:cool::cool::cool:
 
So .... according to Jobs some other technologies don't cut it:
"Blu-ray will be beaten by Internet downloadable formats."
"Flash falls short."

However, related to the antenna issue on the iP4:
"Non issue. Just avoid holding it in that way."

What an idiot ... in my opinion. :D:D
 
To add to this... the bandwidth to download these movies. Here in Canada my internet provider (Rogers) is a joke! I pay $50 a month and have a 60 GB monthly bandwidth cap. If I go over it is $2.50/GB. Downloading 1080p movies would eat into that VERY quickly.
Man, beat to this comment by ten pages or so. Though I'm at a 95GB cap for ~$60, I believe.

Broadband of sufficient speed and sufficient 'unlimited' is simply not widespread enough to make downloads of high definition movies viable. The point about a lack of DRM driving MP3 adoption was also correct, in a somewhat roundabout way -- namely Napster. People started there, and it's just kinda stuck (albeit with a move towards M4A lately).

Surprised Steve Jobs wouldn't understand that, after iTMS's huge increase in popularity, post-DRM. Well, that combined with the quality increase that came with it -- which brings me full circle, back to the point about broadband not being uncapped enough for very high quality video.
 
Steve this is one point where you have got it very VERY wrong.

All I have to do is add a BR drive in my Mac Pro, boot into Windows and OMGZ I can haz blu-ray!?

WHY do I have to use your competitors system to watch a stupid BR disk?

Someone needs to kick steve up the backside.

Convenience is NOT having to wait 2 hours to download a 720p film when I have a 1080p Blu-ray SITTING NEXT TO ME.

Calling someone next to Steve at Apple: SLAP HIM PLEASE.
 
If you want to burn an HD disc, just buy an external BR burner, they're not that expensive anymore.
My point is: you can wine and annoy other people with this stuff and in the mean time do friggin' nothing, or you can try to fix "the problem" by yourself.
Have we all become such sheep that we cannot do things on our own anymore, but instead have to rely on the tools one company so graciously gives us?
I love my Mac, but I've had a couple of minor issues myself, e.g. that overscan problem which I can't rectify via my TV nor via OS X. Did I start a useless rant about how there should be a slider or whatnot in OS X? No, I just looked around and found that Plex has overscan settings. Problem solved. In one swoop, I also got to know a very nice Mac mediacenter, so I'm all the more happy.
If one is really is so clingy on BR, so that a Mac computer is immediately loosing value because of the lack of BR, well than a Mac is not for you. Buy a PC, nobody is stopping you.

Such a BR burner could not be authored from DVD Studio Pro. Part of shunning Bluray in favour of iTunes means Apple shuns other benefits of optical media that are incredibly useful and don't really compete with iTunes at all (ie the ability for prosumers to distribute HD media to their clients without sacrificing quality or buying them high speed internet).

I can do stuff on my own as much as the next ex-Windows user, but if I wanted to spend ages fixing compatibility issues with peripherals and putting together needlessly complicated workflows, I probably wouldn't have moved to Mac at all, now would I?
 
If you want to burn an HD disc, just buy an external BR burner, they're not that expensive anymore.
My point is: you can wine and annoy other people with this stuff and in the mean time do friggin' nothing, or you can try to fix "the problem" by yourself.
Have we all become such sheep that we cannot do things on our own anymore, but instead have to rely on the tools one company so graciously gives us?
I love my Mac, but I've had a couple of minor issues myself, e.g. that overscan problem which I can't rectify via my TV nor via OS X. Did I start a useless rant about how there should be a slider or whatnot in OS X? No, I just looked around and found that Plex has overscan settings. Problem solved. In one swoop, I also got to know a very nice Mac mediacenter, so I'm all the more happy.
If one is really is so clingy on BR, so that a Mac computer is immediately loosing value because of the lack of BR, well than a Mac is not for you. Buy a PC, nobody is stopping you.

"gracious", I like it.

Highlight the one you think applies the most:

gra·cious [grey-shuhs]]
–adjective
1. pleasantly kind, benevolent, and courteous.
2. characterized by good taste, comfort, ease, or luxury: gracious suburban living; a gracious home.
3. indulgent or beneficent in a pleasantly condescending way, esp. to inferiors.
4. merciful or compassionate: our gracious king.
5. Obsolete . fortunate or happy.

LOL. (4. comes a close sarcastic second)
 
So .... according to Jobs some other technologies don't cut it:
"Blu-ray will be beaten by Internet downloadable formats."
"Flash falls short."

However, related to the antenna issue on the iP4:
"Non issue. Just avoid holding it in that way."

What an idiot ... in my opinion. :D:D

totally agreed!!!!
For instance, with an iphone or an iPad, the internet pages what we see are "crippled", no flash means no video on more than 80% web sites around the world. He dislikes the flash, that doesn't mean we dislike flash. But he refuses the flash on iOS without asking us - we apple funs. So Jobs is an autarch i can say, a greedy autarch. He never think about we apple funs' feeling and what we need. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Those digital copy versions packaged with the premium Blu Rays aren't even 720p. I don't want to even think of the time it'd take to put BR into my media servers which are the only way I consume media now (one chair and one device is so last-decade).

I'll take mobile 720p over location-hostage 1080p any day. (that and my screens aren't big enough to show me any difference between the 2 anyway)

I have a 27" iMac and believe me, you can see the difference. 720p rips are the minimum acceptable quality on a screen of that size and resolution. It's not a question of wanting BluRay quality, it's simply a must if you want to watch movies on that device that do not consist of Lego bricks (read: DVDs).

The simple truth is that Macs are not good at all that Multimedia stuff. Where's 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound (with THX certificate)? Where's the BluRay player to provide that picture quality?

But Steve's right with one thing, though: I really don't want the BluRay disc. I just want the digital copy on my hard disk. The times of physical media are over. The problem is that there are no legal means to obtain those movies. And another thing is: I live in Germany, but I do NOT want dubbed movies. I want the original language version, and nobody is selling those here in downloadable formats.
 
Poor Mr. Jobs. He's trying to protect sales of Apple TV hardware while forgetting that Blu-ray players have become very cheap (I bought the excellent Sony BDP-S370 for US$179, and now it's down to US$159).

If Jobs stops being so arrogant, he could negotiate a deal with the Blu-ray Disc Association with a very cheap per-machine license fee for the technology (BDA would be more than happy to accommodate!) so higher-end MacBook Pros, iMacs and Mac Pros can now sport BD-RE drives for maybe at most US$100 extra per machine at the retail level. The hardware on the MacBook Pro, iMac and Mac Pro are already fully HDCP-certified to accommodate Blu-ray discs, and all it needs is an update to MacOS X 10.6.4, QuickTime X, and iTunes 9.x to accommodate a BD-RE drive.
 
:sigh:, do Directors like Scorsese and Cameron go on record praising iTunes downloads? Nope, they praise Blu-ray;

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/blu-ray-disc/scorsese-blu-ray-incredible-17482

http://www.dealerscope.com/article/...d-blu-ray-format-blu-con-los-angeles-414133/1

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/digital/dvds/james-cameron-blu-ray-avatar

Avatar had 49% market share on Blu-ray, how much is the iTunes market share?

I understand Job's stance - why offer direct competition to iTunes - but don't talk crap about a decent product which is only getting stronger and stronger.
 
While I think it's an idiotic decision, for me it's a non-issue...

I have a Mac Mini on my TV, but I also have a Blu-Ray Player.

The only place Blu-Ray has an advantage is on a large screen. I'm not a detractor of the format... I see the benefits of it when I'm sitting at home on my couch.

When I'm mobile, decreasingly with my MBP, more with my iPad, I'm not going to see the benefits of the high-res, high-bitrate video anyways, so its no big deal.

I never carried movies around on DVD, and I'm not about to on Blu-Ray.

If there were no-such-thing as a standalone player, then I'd either build a Windows box, or plug an SATA Blu-Ray drive into my mini and boot into Windows.

That's my take on viewing video.

I understand the big deal for content creators... That's a given.

But people whining about backup optical storage? Really? Hasn't Toast had this ability for years, now?

So again... don't get me wrong... I get the flap about the arrogance and the blatantly anti-competitive business practices. I especially get the anger about being blatantly lied to. (When I saw "non-issue" about the antenna, it was like G.W. all over again.), but as far as BD support... for me it's a: "Meh..."
 
At this point I don't want Steve to give me a bluray drive, or an effin' Bumper. I just want him to resign.

You don't need to hold back. I know you meant: I want his liver to fail again, and not recover this time.

Or is that just me...
 
(from the first 10 pages)

While Steve has valid points, I think he exaggerates and underestimates respectively for the popularity of downloadable/streaming for high quality video and the footprint of blu ray. Big name movies like Avatar and The Dark Knight sold MILLIONS of copies within a week of release on blu ray. By comparison, SACD and DVD-A aren't even known as a format by most consumers. It's a law of diminishing returns...

Things like "market update" rates are often highly deceiving: just look at Vista vs. XP, etc. In any case, I do think that the consumer's cynicism for YA format has manifested itself in the dual-physical-media (DVD+BR) boxed sets that the studios have responded with...which has at least contributed to the "BR" sales bumps that have been seen: the value paradigm is future-proofing.

Meanwhile, itunes still only has 720p whereas the HD standard is 1080p..

Sorry, but this is where your own diminishing return / audiophile argument backfires on you: while the 'phile understands that 720 isn't 1080, Joe Public Sixpack merely sees both as "HD".


Physical media is on the way out. Sure, right now you can't get the highest quality video from streamed sources, but I think within the next 5 years with faster access and better streaming technology, we'll be there...

Yes, but the problem is that 5 years is a long time, and the ISP content provider is very strongly angling to make us all pay for our bandwidth consumption. This is what I see as the fundamental opposition to Steve Job's "everything streaming" business model.

Take a look at your ISP monthly bill today, now compare it to what you paid ~3 years ago: has your value paradigm DOUBLED yet (Ie, are you paying half as much)? Mine hasn't. And unless we happen to be lucky enough to be in one of the really hot competitive market areas between Cable & DSL, we've probably not even seen any significant bump up in bandwidth at our current monthly price.


Right, but Macs need slot-loading drives (otherwise all Mac models would have to undergo extensive redesign), and slot-loading Blu-ray is still expensive as ****.

That's one of the items in the so-called bag of hurt.

1) Slot-loading Blu-ray = expensive
2) ...

I recently went over to the Lenovo website to find out how much a slimline BR burner would cost to add to a new Windows laptop I was going to buy ... bottom line was that it was $1000 for the hardware ... and it wasn't even a slot-loading slimline such as what Apple currently designs their products to! As such, even if the rest of the issues were simple, the cost of the Apple-relevant form factor hardware exceeds the cost of a Mac mini.


Why would anyone want a hard copy? To me, it's like having a bank account...

I still have them mail me a physical copy of my statement each month...its a lot more convenient (& cheaper) than for me to print it out every month (keep in mind US Tax laws' requirement for 7 year retention).

Why have piles of DVDs or Blu-Ray discs when you can just store them on an external HD?

If the purchase price was the same, why would you turn down a FREE archival quality backup copy?

FWIW, I'm still buying (not all, but most) of my music on CDs for this reason.


What about those people with Macs who are in content creation and would like to shoot high-def and burn their movie creations to Blu-Ray for sharing their HD creations with others?

Does this mean that content creators, who have been the mainstay of Apple's "pro" desktop line, have no options to create Blu-Ray movie/video content? I'm asking because I'm not too versed about content creation, but it would appear to be a very important market that Jobs is saying doesn't matter because everything will ultimately be on iTunes. ????

This is what I see as a huge concern as well.


Honestly my biggest fight against download only media is the inability to buy it used...

Or to afterwords, give it to a friend.

Same problem exists with eBooks too.


I dislike shooting HD video on my camcorder (which, btw, only has a FireWire output, Steve), editing full-res HD with Final Cut or iMovie, and then having no easy way to watch it on my large plasma television.

And there's no way to share it with others unless I down convert to SD and burn a DVD, or upload the footage to a website (Youtube, Vimeo) that will compress the hell out of it.

Ditto here ... I'm starting to shoot 1080p and the next question is invariably the "Now What?" for how to not iPad-ize them to make them available for friends to view.

Actually you aren't in the minority. I don't know anybody that has Blu-ray.

Another factor for BR is the "What Next?". With the DRM being so tightly wound today on BR, the question is if one is going to be willing to throw away that $500 that was spent for 10 BR movies, and spend another $500 to buy the same movies again in the "What's Next" post-BR format.

I have a friend who has a very large (and expensive) collection of the old (pre-DVD) Laser Disk ... think he's happy to have invested in a 'dead' format which the manufacturer left him no way to export his media investment to _anywhere_ else?

What I see as an underlying consumer issue here is the 'abandonware' aspect of things: when one of these formats is abandoned by its seller, the seller should be required to publish & distribute free export tools.


-hh
 
who-ray?

I sold all of my disks 2 years ago. I prefer not to have a bunch of them lying around. Call me minimalistic.

Longer term, not having a blu-ray player pushes the rest of the industry to improve their digital content strategy. By allowing blu-ray players into the mix, it allows content owners (studios) to not have to do anything digital.

just my $0.02
 
You don't need to hold back. I know you meant: I want his liver to fail again, and not recover this time.

Or is that just me...

Writing a this like that, to any people even for joke is pretty sad and show your stupidity. Also referring to the one saved Apple computer and OS platform is incredibily stupid.

Blueray is a new, already old tech. Sure you can want it, Apple could give us a choice but it is a bad choice anyway. Hard drive + hd file is better as streaming/downloading if you have a good internet line. Blueray will have a life, shorter than DVD. And also Bluray disc are pretty expensive right now.
 
All this arguments "for" and "against" at the end of the day are pointless...

Some must have it, some would like to have it, some don't mind either way and some don't need it at all...

This goes not only for the BlueRay but for more / less everything out there...

Apple should simply provide an option for having BlueRay with their machines.

Some will go for it and some won't = everyone happy :)

How hard that is???

Very according to Steve >_<
 
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