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Just a random thought. If Apple doesn't want to support Blu-ray then what are they going to do when Ultra High Definition stuff comes out or 4K cinema stuff?

Still going to be stuck with their 720p Apple TV "HD"?

It's not a good thing to challenge the fans' world views with facts like that....

We haven't much discussed Red and 4K and such - we're still at the "what if something much sharper than DVD were available in a compatible form factor at about the same price?" stage with the fans.
 
Yep, that was me. Not doing that again and don't miss my wall of jewel cases. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the superb picture and sound quality BD offers (when the arrive from Netflix), but I am not rushing out to replace my DVD titles with the BD versions (if available like The Human Stain). My only BD purchase has been a pre-order of the Star Wars BD boxed set from Amazon (due to collectors purposes).

In other words, it is a good thing that the Mac doesn't offer Blu-ray because then it would force you to upgrade your entire collection? Because you can't just decide on your own not to replace everything and by Apple not including it, they've already decided for you?

Having it on the Mac won't hurt you. In fact, it is great that you have the option of either wanting to buy Blu-rays for it, or not. Isn't having the choice better than not having it at all?

I still don't get how people can say it is a negative to include something they don't need. With your logic, should we create a thread about how the Macs shouldn't have an SD card slot? After all, the future is cameras automatically saving everything to the cloud. Why have media? The future is that all computers will run on a 5G network so don't include ports for Ethernet or Wi-Fi adapters on current Macs!

This thread would probably be about 5 pages long if current technology and bandwidth allowed Blu-ray quality movies on iTunes. Not much to argue about except for those that just love having a physical collection on their shelf.
 
When I see an insult, intentional or otherwise in the opening sentence of a post, my eyes automatically glaze over, and I discard anything from that point onward, so you're wasting keystrokes - I didn't and won't even bother reading your posts. Fix your attitude.

Obviously, since you didn't bring a single fact to the table but smeared the thread in more misinformative nonsense. It doesn't matter how cordial or non I am, you got called out on several points and it bruised your ego.

Every assertion you made has been proven incorrect (do I need to list them in a bullet list?) and you haven't even bothered to try to dig your way out of the hole you made. Drive-by, hit and run, spray a hail of misinformation and don't look back.

And FWIW my opening line was "more tripe".

tripe/trīp/Noun
1. The first or second stomach of a cow or other ruminant used as food.
2. Nonsense; rubbish: "you do talk tripe sometimes". More »

That's not a personal insult. You seem to be confused on this point. Things along the line of "your momma" are personal insults.

FYI, those are bandwidth comparisons.
To compare 'resolution' is slightly different, since to "double" resolution classically requires making the pixel half as small in both dimensions...which means that achieving 2x the resolution invariably requires 4x the bandwidth.


Regardless, the point is quantifiable, the magnitude of the increase in pixels on screen -- 2X to 6X. Whether you want to measure it in pixel density as I have, etc. The old way was to measure horizontal pixel resolution because frankly NTSC scan lines are constant at 480 and no device could exceed that.


On that level, it isn't bad. However, there's also a big bag of DRM which is still changing, which makes supportability a PITA.

I've have a really old player in my living room (a Samsung HD-DVD/Blu-Ray combo player), a cheap player that's a couple years old in my bedroom, and a brand new 3D player in my home theater. Oh and a PS3. None of them has ever refused to play a disc. Aside from popup messages from AnyDVDHD on my HTPC, I wouldn't even know about DRM being there. Has a legitimate/legal consumer ever really been effected by it?

Oh, goodie: now I only need 4 BD disks to store a single backup of my personal photos ... instead of one single Hard Drive...oh, and the HDD is still cheaper, too.

I agree optical media isn't that great for backup/archive and if it is you usually have something small enough to fit on a CD or DVD. I use hard drives myself -- but beware, that means multiple copies and lots and lots of hard disks, usually at least a RAID array if not a NAS. Between a master archive and the working copy on a NAS, I have about 40TB of hard disks at work (and that's without a complete offsite backup 3rd copy, for that I only have 4TB for really important stuff).

Now the other problem is sharing HD home video with family and friends. Thumb drive? Youtube? Give everybody hard drives? No good solution without BD short of making a DVD, which defeats the purpose of having an HD camera.

Frankly, too few people care about such geek minutia. They simply want to push a button and have it work.

And they can. They never have to know about the codecs. But it's one of the reasons Blu-Ray is better (which was sort of the idea of convincing someone who doesn't understand it that it's better) than even broadcast HDTV because frankly MPEG-2 isn't that good anymore and you can easily pick out artifacts on HDTV broadcasts.

Spoken like someone who hasn't pulled the cotton out of his ears to hear what the "Average Consumer" is literally saying today..?

What "average consumer" is bemoaning that they have to buy an HDTV in 2011? Grandmothers? HDTV household penetration is 60% (meaning 60% of homes have at least one HDTV) so now we're on the tail end of Rogers' bell curve and into the late adopters and laggards, the people who listen to AM radio and watch Matlock.

Now, all those people who have HDTVs are looking for something that can do their new TV justice and Blu-Ray just happens to be the best picture quality you can get.

This approach works fine, for as long as there's "combo" BR-DVD players.

Every Blu-Ray player plays DVDs. And CDs. Probably VCDs too but I haven't checked.

Just a random thought. If Apple doesn't want to support Blu-ray then what are they going to do when Ultra High Definition stuff comes out or 4K cinema stuff?

Still going to be stuck with their 720p Apple TV "HD"?

Good point. Ironically Apple pioneered the "higher than HD" consumer product with the 30" cinema display at 2560x1600. And they do offer QT movie trailers in 1080p. Just not anything on iTunes.

This is the new Apple here, I would bet we're going to see 720p stay entrenched because it's the iDevices that matter. If they won't even support Blu-Ray since it went mainstream in 2007, does anybody think they're going to support the next thing? And even if they did, does anybody think that there will be acceptable 4k/red media via streaming? Probably not, so we're back to physical media, on disc or memory card and unless the economies of scale change by then, it will be disc. We've already discussed discs are cheap and memory cards are not.
 
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<SNIP>? Nope, had to get a combine harvester to trim that one down...

Well whaddaYaKnow, Mr Multiquote - YOU'RE BACK! :D

Seriously, you care WAY too much about this one topic, and your boring out-of-context-snippets-arranged-to-make-your-point are hurting my scroll finger. Seriously, stop meticulously crafting "clever" responses from snippets of posts, and do something worthwhile - you're very boring.
 
Obviously, since you didn't bring a single fact to the table but smeared the thread in more misinformative nonsense. It doesn't matter how cordial or non I am, you got called out on several points and it bruised your ego. It's not worth arguing with someone who is so misinformed -- but people reading may learn a thing or two.

Regardless, the point is quantifiable, the magnitude of the increase in pixels on screen -- 2X to 6X. Whether you want to measure it in pixel density as I have, etc. The old way was to measure horizontal pixel resolution because frankly NTSC scan lines are constant at 480 and no device could exceed that.

It doesn't matter, since you're now also guilty of propagating incorrect facts what you yourself call "misinformative nonsense"

I understand your point, but unfortunately, when you try to win debates by being pedantic, that sword has a second cutting edge.


On DRM:
I've have a really old player in my living room (a Samsung HD-DVD/Blu-Ray combo player), a cheap player that's a couple years old in my bedroom, and a brand new 3D player in my home theater. Oh and a PS3. None of them has ever refused to play a disc....

And you've faithfully download all of the updates to these appliances to keep them running ... which was my point about changing DRM headaches.


I agree optical media isn't that great for backup/archive and if it is you usually have something small enough to fit on a CD or DVD.

Rapid backpedalling noted. :rolleyes: Of course, it does beg the question as to why you just tried to "SELL" it as such...was this merely more of your own "misinformative nonsense" being spread on the cornfield?


I use hard drives myself -- but beware, that means multiple copies and lots and lots of hard disks, usually at least a RAID array if not a NAS.

Except that you're now suggesting that redundancy policies suddenly don't apply anymore for just this one form of storage media? Boy is that a load of utter "misinformative nonsense".


Now the other problem is sharing HD home video with family and friends. Thumb drive? Youtube? Give everybody hard drives? No good solution without BD short of making a DVD, which defeats the purpose of having an HD camera.

Yes, there's problems today...still waiting for that magic of high bandwidth, which is what allowed us to abolish sneakernet on floppies years ago to email MS-Powerpoint files around at work.

However, it is worth nothing that your use case here is the generic "home movie", which isn't going to be 120 minutes long and thus need a 50GB disk.

From a storage capacity perspective, an 8GB thumb drive (under $10) would probably be a decent 80% solution, and it would work fine for a single viewing use case ... and even if it is literally a give-away, it is still basically cost competitive with current BD media.

Of course, a generic 4.7GB DVD is probably also going to be adequate capacity much of the time...but can you tell me how I can put an 1080p HD movie on a DVD and have it be played on media devices? Or are you going to tell me that there's some factor (like DRM) that blocks that as a technical solution?


What "average consumer" is bemoaning that they have to buy an HDTV in 2011?

Ironically, you've illustrated my point about how some people refuse to hear. The reason why is because you changed the subject: the point being made was about consumer resistance of perceptually having to re-buy their movie catalog ... and your response has utterly nothing to do with that.


Every Blu-Ray player plays DVDs. And CDs. Probably VCDs too but I haven't checked.

True, but once again, you chose to miss the point: you simply cannot guarantee that this current Status Quo of backwards-compatibility will remain the case for the next ten years.


This is the new Apple here, I would bet we're going to see 720p stay entrenched because it's the iDevices that matter.

Except that this isn't new...it is the 21st Century Apple that has been around for a decade or more.

The high end purist tecchie niche market have been moaning at Apple's business decisions for easily a decade - - simply recall the fuss over "overcompressed" MP3 files on iPods not being the best possible.

Similarly, the high end purist tecchie niche market made a fuss for only having glossy screens available on most Apple laptops.

And so on.


-hh
 
<SNIP>? Nope, had to get a combine harvester to trim that one down...

Well whaddaYaKnow, Mr Multiquote - YOU'RE BACK! :D

Seriously, you care WAY too much about this one topic, and your boring out-of-context-snippets-arranged-to-make-your-point are hurting my scroll finger. Seriously, stop meticulously crafting "clever" responses from snippets of posts, and do something worthwhile - you're very boring.

Still no answers, I see. You are not boring, your misinformation is very entertaining.

Since you're so eager to have amnesia, I'll rewind some of your bigger gaffes in a concise manner.

- Blu Ray was dead the day it was conceived. (It's still growing now).
- Optical: dying & old tech + Apple: forward thinking with superb insight = "not gonna happen. Move on." (Apple announced support in 2005 and apparently reneged when the iTunes movie store debuted 18 months later).
- I don't imagine Apple releasing a technology merely as a "stop-gap" (some of Apple's most important tech has been stop gap, i.e. Rosetta and Classic).
- Blu Ray & HD-DVD were released simultaneously a few years ago - no wonder consumers held back from taking the leap of risk. (The format war ended officially in Jan. 2008 and the winner was clear in mid 2007, 4 years ago. There has been no uncertainty for 3.5 years)
- VHS/Beta to DVD was a *massive* upgrade <but DVD to Blu-Ray is not> (Blu-Ray offers a bigger jump in quality over DVD than DVD did over VHS).
- after only just having settled into DVD, they're told DVD is dead, and now HD is a "must have". (Blu-Ray players still play DVDs and nobody is forced to upgrade their old DVDs)
- Blu Ray player adoption is nothing like the mass adoption of DVD (you're right, it's even better)
- If you're desperate to have it, go buy an external drive. (OSX still won't play the movies but Windows on the same hardware will)

Your move.
 
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It doesn't matter, since you're now also guilty of propagating incorrect facts what you yourself call "misinformative nonsense"

I understand your point, but unfortunately, when you try to win debates by being pedantic, that sword has a second cutting edge.

My facts are not incorrect as I could argue with your definition but chose not to. Not to mention your definition is patently absurd at least in the era of analog NTSC/PAL because it is impossible to change the number of scan lines they deliver as it is a constant and thus the ONLY way to increase resolution was in the number of dots per scan line.

And actually, come to think of it, you used the term "bandwidth" to describe resolution, I'd like to know where the heck you got that definition. Bandwidth in the digital domain is the throughput in bytes per second, and in the analog domain it describes something completely different in terms of frequency spectrum. So grab your sword back.

And you've faithfully download all of the updates to these appliances to keep them running ... which was my point about changing DRM headaches.

Not entirely, perhaps at first but I don't really keep on top of the firmware. And the oldest player (Samsung HD-DVD/Blu combo player) is so old they don't update the firmware anymore. Yet it still plays discs. So much for your unfounded fears about DRM headaches, eh? Perhaps if you actually experienced what you're talking about instead of repeat FUD you heard somewhere...

On the other hand, people verifiably have had their media rendered unplayable when Apple revoked their iTunes account.



Rapid backpedalling noted. :rolleyes: Of course, it does beg the question as to why you just tried to "SELL" it as such...was this merely more of your own "misinformative nonsense" being spread on the cornfield?

:rolleyes: No backpedaling involved since I haven't been advocating Blu-Ray's use as an archival media (aside from distributing HD video and perhaps distribution of ludicrously large products like Final Cut and Logic). That original statement was in response to iphoneiphone saying BD has to be more versatile than movies, and I pointed out how it is. The core of my advocacy has been as being the best way to deliver the highest quality media available today, i.e. 1080p movies. Perhaps you missed it.

Except that you're now suggesting that redundancy policies suddenly don't apply anymore for just this one form of storage media? Boy is that a load of utter "misinformative nonsense".

Talk about pedantism, now you're just looking for a fight over anything you can find.

Maybe you aren't familiar with hard drives. They fail. All. The. Time. At much higher rates than other media. If you're going to archive on hard disks, you'd better make backups, no two ways about it.

Of course, a generic 4.7GB DVD is probably also going to be adequate capacity much of the time...but can you tell me how I can put an 1080p HD movie on a DVD and have it be played on media devices? Or are you going to tell me that there's some factor (like DRM) that blocks that as a technical solution?

Along with Blu-Ray came a new "stop gap" solution called AVC-HD, where you can put H.264 video on a conventional DVD for short bursts of video (15 minutes on a single layer). Blu-Ray players support this.

Ironically, you've illustrated my point about how some people refuse to hear. The reason why is because you changed the subject: the point being made was about consumer resistance of perceptually having to re-buy their movie catalog ... and your response has utterly nothing to do with that.

That would be because I already said that nobody is forcing anyone to buy all their movies all over again if they don't want to. I certainly am not. Do you need me to pull the quote?

In many ways I have a lot in common with linux2mac (not the HTPC aspect, but the rest). I used to buy a lot of DVDs, hundreds, now I've slowed down to maybe a dozen titles a year. Everything is now ripped to a media server and the shelves of keepcases are now gone. If something really special comes out I will re-buy on Blu-Ray, such as Star Wars or Lord of the Rings. But as for the rest, I just leave the DVDs alone and go buy new stuff on Blu-Ray.

True, but once again, you chose to miss the point: you simply cannot guarantee that this current Status Quo of backwards-compatibility will remain the case for the next ten years.

I can't guarantee that either of us will be alive in 5 minutes either.

However, looking at the chain of evolution of the 5" optical disc, your fears are completely unfounded. There is an unbroken chain of compatibility from the CD to Blu-Ray (the only notable exception I can think of is DVD-A and SACD but even then there ARE still players that will play those formats too, such as the excellent Oppo players). Perhaps you would care to enlighten us with a 5" optical disc that has been rendered obsolete and no longer included in player compatibility. Especially since all Blu-Ray players from the start to this point have been compatible with DVD and CD. Your fears are not grounded.
 
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And you've faithfully download all of the updates to these appliances to keep them running ... which was my point about changing DRM headaches.

Are you guys actually debating DRM headaches? Neither platform has an advantage here. I have to update my PS3, netflix (silverlight), and iTunes software all the time. All of them deal with this BS.
 
Look on the bright side: now people won't be overcharged by hundreds of dollars to get a blu-ray player in their Macs. We should all be so thankful.

:rolleyes:

A quick trip to Amazon will show BD-ROM drives starting around $50 and recorders around $100, and I'm sure Apple could work out something with an OEM.

Not to mention, you can already buy drives from OWC but OSX can't play back the movies. I'd swear that's been said before.
 

You sure have a LOT of spare time on your hands, provoking and causing resentment with strangers, whilst assembling long, drawn-out and pedantic multi-quoting replies, to FORCE your "point" across.

It is not about who's wrong and who's right, but judging by your rude, aggressive and forceful manner, I'd have to say you're wrong, were I even reading anything you write; all I see is a sea of words and quotes, not worthy of reading. Judging by your sig, you have an obsessive personality, so I'll take that into account.

One who has a "point" to make (force across) will read EVERYTHING, and read INTO everything, in order to make himself known as the "winner". Sad.

Learn when to let go.
 
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You sure have a LOT of spare time on your hands

Congratulations, that is a personal attack. And you still haven't answered a single question.

provoking and causing resentment with strangers, whilst assembling long, drawn-out and pedantic multi-quoting replies, to FORCE your "point" across.

Translation: you still got nothing. You think your misinformed facts are true and can't deal with someone calling you on it.

And you know, multiquoting is a point of etiquette, so I'm not losing track of what you said in response and it helps other people follow the thread(s) of conversation.

No, I just feel very passionately about the Mac and about high quality home theater (and that would be why I know the things you are saying are not true). Two of my favorite things and it's a shame they can't be brought together. I've been participating in this thread for a long time. Whereas you dropped in from a helicopter out of nowhere and dropped a lot of misinformation and are attempting to just let it stand and exit. You don't know what you're talking about.
 
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No, I just feel very passionately about the Mac and about high quality home theater, two of my favorite things and it's a shame they can't be brought together.

Same here. But I don't need a Mac to have a "high quality home theater." If Macs did have BD, I would never consider having one as my main BD player. "High quality home theater" also includes a large screen. Not a 15" VAIO propped up on a riser in the middle of your theater room - LOL!

Again, I use my Macs for work because they are the best work machine due to *NIX stability. (My C2D Macs, considered wimpy by PC fans here, have never failed me like the Dell's and VAIO's of my past.) When I am not working the last thing I want to do is be in front of my Macs.
 
RAID'd NAS, I hope

I agree optical media isn't that great for backup/archive and if it is you usually have something small enough to fit on a CD or DVD.

I use hard drives myself -- but beware, that means multiple copies and lots and lots of hard disks, usually at least a RAID array if not a NAS.

Between a master archive and the working copy on a NAS, I have about 40TB of hard disks at work (and that's without a complete offsite backup 3rd copy, for that I only have 4TB for really important stuff).

NAS (Network Attached Storage) adds *nothing* for reliability - it just means that the storage server is using protocols layered on TCP/IP (e.g. "CIFS" (Common Internet File System) or "NFS" (Nightmare File System)) for distributed access.

For increased reliability, you want a NAS that uses one of the redundant RAID options for the physical storage. Or a DAS (Direct Attached Storage) using redundant RAID.

For my home file server, I keep 5 copies of all of my data.
  • The shared copy is on a RAID-1 mirror set on the file server
  • The shared copy is backed up to a RAID-5 volume
  • Monthly the RAID-5 backup is copied to a simple volume that I keep in my desk at the office (AKA "offsite backup").
 
Blu-ray playback finally comes to OS X

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_...to-os-x/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

"... .Despite the controversies and frustrations with Apple's support of Blu-ray, native playback is finally here. Recently, developer Macgo released a new media player aptly named Mac Blu Ray Player, which is the first to bring full Blu-ray playback support to OS X. All you need to get Blu-ray up and running is the following:
A Blu-ray drive, which can either be internal (likely easier and cheaper for Mac Pro systems), or external. These can be purchased at places like Other World Computing or NewEgg
Mac Blu Ray Player software, which can be downloaded from the Macgo Web site.


Read more: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-20077240-263/blu-ray-playback-comes-to-os-x/#ixzz1RMQD54Jf"
 
Wow. Cool an actual player, software that is! Not super cheap ($39.95) but if it works. Still doesn't quite resolve the issue about Apple not providing the option for a BD drive.

There was a method of playing BD before using a streamer / VLC? Just a few more clicks, but free at least.

At the end of the day, isn't it just damn obvious it's because Apple wants to keep everything to themselves (money) via iTunes / Apple TV. Just irritating because the quality isn't as good as BD and not everything is available on it either. And I don't buy the whole on demand / stream. I haven't got the fastest broadband in the world, 50Mbits / 6.25MB down. But already it seems like some websites are bottlenecking and can't stream fast enough.

And what about other users with 1MB lines with download restriction (10Gb download per month)? Still very common here in UK.

So I have to download a "720p HD" film every time and wait

Apple Support said:

Another use (for me), eg. I have Bill Bailey on Blu-ray. It's only stand up comedy. But none less, would be good if I could watch it on my iMac / MacBook instead of having to watch it on the big TV every time since it's not a blockbuster film. Just nice to have the option as I tend to buy all my new stuff on BD now, like you would be able to play DVDs as it's quite common for BD now surely?

Again, iTunes doesn't have everything! I have Joe Hisaishi BD concerts, films and Korean stuff which I highly doubt they will put on iTunes!
 
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Don't shoot the messenger.

Not to rain on any parades, but it looks like Macgo, the new software solution for allowing Blu-Ray playback on a Mac, won't be possible for inflight viewing unless your plane comes equipped with WiFi (ex. Virgin Airlines). Gotta love DRM.

Read more here.

Software looks, at this time, half-baked from the reviews.
 
Blu-ray is the future, I'm surprised if Jobs will still stick to his plan of no blu ray players in Macs.
 
IFor disc burning or data backup, external hard drive is a much easier and more economical option.
For movie watching, DVD is much much cheaper and has good enough quality, there are not much human perceivable ( vs. the misleading technical numbers ) quality improvements in Blue-ray, at least not worth the ridiculous price differences, that's why Blue-ray isn't widely adopted after so many years, while DVD got adopted much more quickly.
 
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_...to-os-x/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

"... .Despite the controversies and frustrations with Apple's support of Blu-ray, native playback is finally here. Recently, developer Macgo released a new media player aptly named Mac Blu Ray Player, which is the first to bring full Blu-ray playback support to OS X. All you need to get Blu-ray up and running is the following:
A Blu-ray drive, which can either be internal (likely easier and cheaper for Mac Pro systems), or external. These can be purchased at places like Other World Computing or NewEgg
Mac Blu Ray Player software, which can be downloaded from the Macgo Web site.


Read more: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-20077240-263/blu-ray-playback-comes-to-os-x/#ixzz1RMQD54Jf"
Wow, the thread lasted long enough to see something actually happen on topic. That's a little surreal.

My question is: Why is there a PC version of this Mac software?
 
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BR is a niche at best. It will never reach the level of ubiquity as DVD.
Ooh, you JUST missed being the first to post that error in judgement in this thread. I think the first one was June 30.

(June 30, 2010)

Why not?

I can choose from several media players to watch a BD on my Windows 7 system - why not another option?
Well, it's actually titled "Mac Bluray Player for Windows", which I'd call weird. Guess it's for a consistent UI.

I'd have to see how it supports audio output. And by "it", I think I mean OSX. My HT setup can't currently handle the HD formats over HDMI, anyway.
 
I still think it's funny that in the original email Steve mentioned that things are moving towards free or rentals and he is just so sure of himself.

So what really happened a year later? Well... neither.

The big winners in all of this are not HULU which DID go to a charge model, and still includes commercials. And rentals (like iTunes through Apple TV haven't really caught on as they had originally envisioned.

Winners are:

1- Netflix, which is a PAID streaming service (not quite the free service you envisioned winning the war here Steve or the rental service like iTunes was at this point eh?).

2- Blu-Ray is doing extremely well, even with Netflix's streaming service. They co-exist nicely due to the agreements about Netflix running older stuff and not having things at release day. They then have Blu-Rays aplenty for rental if it is over 30 days old (or whatever the established cutoff is now) and continue to do well.

3- Redbox. For providing Blu-Ray/DVD/and now video games as well in a format that makes sense for the average guy who doesn't want to sign up for Hulu/Netflix or run the risk of streaming massive amounts of data or doesn't have a high speed connection. A win for the consumer in my mind.

Losers are:

1- Hulu at this point (although they have some nice content, but they really shot themselves in the foot by rolling it out for free first).

2- Everybody who went with a rental system that was based on downloading an entire film rather than streaming it.

3- Blockbuster. Bleccch.

Has anybody else noticed that:

The Apple TV is now virtually a clone of the Roku and other similar devices which came out over two years ago when Apple was basically mocking their setup with Netflix/Amazon and claiming the Apple TV with a storage drive was the way to go? PS3 movie rentals aren't that big of a deal. Until they got Netflix it wasn't seen as a real set-top box. Same for the XBox360 and Wii. Now Netflix beat the tar out of everybody basically.

One last thing:

I have tons of Apple stuff. 2 iPhones, 2 iPads, 3 Macbooks, about 7 iPods, an iMac, etc. But I think it's funny when Steve says stuff that is CLEARLY meant to try to sway people one way and aren't based in anything more than his hopes and guesses. He's mad he didn't invent Blu-Ray so he "predicts" it won't do well, therefore hoping that his statements directly influence the market. When it's CLEAR that Blu-Ray is going to be here a lot longer than mini disc, DAT, DCC, etc. and will continue to be a player for sometime. But going back on his word now and providing something that is cheap, thoroughly entrenched and desired by users would just go to show that he does make things up at times and hopes he's right, but sometimes he's just talking out of his rear to hype up whatever he wants/likes/is most beneficial to his personal wealth. Good for him I guess, but ultimately his stubbornness prevents his loyal customers (like myself) from upgrading to a newer computer, because my 4 year old Macbook runs everything fine, and a Blu-Ray player may be the tipping point because it would give me another form of video playback (without having to hog bandwidth, especially when traveling and I can't get a good connection for streaming/downloads), and another form of storage, while still maintaining my ability to play and rip my old CD's, write CD's, write and play DVD's, etc. It's just a simple one step up from what they already offer and is about sixes on price.

I find it fun when I get to use my hindsight is 20/20 glasses. :)
 
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